Author Topic: General automotive design thread  (Read 5450 times)

Northernridge

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General automotive design thread
« on: November 21, 2013, 01:28:15 pm »
This one may not stick but we don't seem to have a thread dedicated to automotive design in general. Currently, design topics tend to follow to specific vehicles and are well covered in new vehicle threads. Here's the place to muse on design trends, fads, innovations, indulgences, successes and of course, failures.

Northernridge

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Re: General automotive design thread
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2013, 01:30:27 pm »
I'll start. Go South Korea! Automotive News covers the rise of the hot shot designer 'Korean Mafia'.

http://www.autonews.com/article/20131121/OEM03/131129972/work-ethic-comic-hero-make-koreans-hot-shots-in-design#axzz2lJ0wcKP8

Offline KD

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Re: General automotive design thread
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2013, 02:51:41 pm »
Good on the South Koreans!  One of the first things I remember a prof telling us from 1st year engineering, that if something looks well designed, then it probably is!  From my experience he was mostly right... :)  South Korean vehicles are a perfect case in point.  Remember the Pony and those Daewoo things...they really were as bad as they looked!  Newer Korean vehicles seem to be as good working in all accounts as they look. 

On the other hand very good design ethic and application may be the reason some are still in business despite lackluster engineering in some cases (ie Jaguar, Aston, Land Rover and surprisingly Volvo).  There is no reason for boring design IMO.  It doesn't have to be flashy, or groundbreaking but some personality in design should be applied to even the simplest of vehicles.  A good design takes into account the proper application of proportions IMO.  I take an extreme approach to the application of proportions even in the simplest things I build or construct even something as simple as routing a cable from one place to another...OCD maybe, but I take pleasure in the details!  If it doesn't look right, then I tear it all apart and do it right.

Good thread BTW...I like this kind of stuff... 8)

Offline HeliDriver

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Re: General automotive design thread
« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2013, 03:49:52 pm »
I've read some interesting articles about Volvo recently. Not unsurprisingly, I suppose, there has been some tension between the Swedish management and the Chinese ownership.

I'm a huge fan of the Scandinavian design aesthetic in general, and would hate to see it disappear from our roads (I think the V50 is not just the best looking wagon ever made, but possibly the best looking car ever made.)

If Chinese tastes are calling the shots these days, I think those of us who prefer classic, simple and understated are soon going to be out of luck.

I thought this quote was pretty funny:

"Volvo management says they (ostentatious Chinese consumers)are not our target customers. The problem is, there aren't many people in China today with good taste," said one of those close to Li. "Mistresses love BMWs. Coal mine owners and property developers drive Mercedes. Those rich people like to show off."

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSBRE98905520130910

Offline Snowman

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Re: General automotive design thread
« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2013, 03:59:50 pm »
I went to college and studied Industrial Design so that some day I could design snowmobiles and cars. My favorite designer is Giorgetto Giugiaro.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giorgetto_Giugiaro

http://jalopnik.com/5965166/the-best-giorgetto-giugiaro-designs

Offline KD

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Re: General automotive design thread
« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2013, 04:10:09 pm »
I've read some interesting articles about Volvo recently. Not unsurprisingly, I suppose, there has been some tension between the Swedish management and the Chinese ownership.

I'm a huge fan of the Scandinavian design aesthetic in general, and would hate to see it disappear from our roads (I think the V50 is not just the best looking wagon ever made, but possibly the best looking car ever made.)

If Chinese tastes are calling the shots these days, I think those of us who prefer classic, simple and understated are soon going to be out of luck.

I thought this quote was pretty funny:

"Volvo management says they (ostentatious Chinese consumers)are not our target customers. The problem is, there aren't many people in China today with good taste," said one of those close to Li. "Mistresses love BMWs. Coal mine owners and property developers drive Mercedes. Those rich people like to show off."

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSBRE98905520130910

The V70 is still one of my favorites!  :thumbup:

Offline mmret

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Re: General automotive design thread
« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2013, 04:11:33 pm »
I've read some interesting articles about Volvo recently. Not unsurprisingly, I suppose, there has been some tension between the Swedish management and the Chinese ownership.

I'm a huge fan of the Scandinavian design aesthetic in general, and would hate to see it disappear from our roads (I think the V50 is not just the best looking wagon ever made, but possibly the best looking car ever made.)

If Chinese tastes are calling the shots these days, I think those of us who prefer classic, simple and understated are soon going to be out of luck.

I thought this quote was pretty funny:

"Volvo management says they (ostentatious Chinese consumers)are not our target customers. The problem is, there aren't many people in China today with good taste," said one of those close to Li. "Mistresses love BMWs. Coal mine owners and property developers drive Mercedes. Those rich people like to show off."

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSBRE98905520130910

That would not at all be my interpretation of the article.

It sounds like Li just wanted a big bucks sedan as a halo car. A newer, nicer S80 to compete with the A8 / 7 Series etc., both of which have a reasonable amount of "classy understatement", perhaps too much so in the new A8's case. I could totally go for a new S80.

You're making it sound like he wants the entire lineup to be made "blingy" somehow, which is far from the article's message.


I imagine he wants a modern version of this (Heico S80 concept), though hopefully without the chrome wheels.


You can't just have your characters announce how they feel.
That makes me feel angry!

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Re: General automotive design thread
« Reply #7 on: November 21, 2013, 04:14:23 pm »
The Chinese car market demands tacky, blingy cars for people with poor taste. They want to show off so chrome and "sparkly stuff" is important.....Ive heard this from several reports about their car industry.
Lighten up Francis.....

Offline mmret

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Re: General automotive design thread
« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2013, 04:18:35 pm »
The Chinese car market demands tacky, blingy cars for people with poor taste. They want to show off so chrome and "sparkly stuff" is important.....Ive heard this from several reports about their car industry.

And I have been there many times in recent years. There are imbeciles with ridiculous cars, of course, but the vast majority of the show off cars are the same restrained German stuff we get here. A4/A6, 5 series, E-Class etc. And the odd Toyota Crown.

Then you have Lambo / Ferrari drivers of course but its no more bling than your average off the shelf Lambo / Ferrari. Because its the same car.

Just because you read it, doesn't make it true.

Offline aquadorhj

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Re: General automotive design thread
« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2013, 04:25:02 pm »
ah.. good thread, nor.


i don't have any inputs though.    aesthetics to me is a derivative of function.  and perception to aesthetics(taste) change over time.   they do tend to cycle though, so i guess we all go thru phases.   so if it works well (first) and it happens to look good (second), i'm fine with that!   

if it functions great, but looks like sh1t(lotus 7) i'm ok with that too!

Driving thrills makes my wallet lighter.. and therefore makes me faster because i'm shedding weight... :D

Northernridge

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Re: General automotive design thread
« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2013, 04:33:05 pm »
ah.. good thread, nor.


i don't have any inputs though.    aesthetics to me is a derivative of function.  and perception to aesthetics(taste) change over time.   they do tend to cycle though, so i guess we all go thru phases.   so if it works well (first) and it happens to look good (second), i'm fine with that!   

if it functions great, but looks like sh1t(lotus 7) i'm ok with that too!

Well that's input. If we all took pictures of our cars and then circled the features or details that are NOT present for functional reasons, we'd have a lot of marked up paper.

Offline mmret

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Re: General automotive design thread
« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2013, 04:36:56 pm »
I ponder. How to fix Acura styling. Ideas? :)

Pull a E60-F10 transition and just go back to modernized versions of the old ideas? (3rd gen TL and 1st gen TSX come to mind).

Northernridge

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Re: General automotive design thread
« Reply #12 on: November 21, 2013, 04:43:30 pm »
Acura needs a new aesthetic not just a new front clip. They have to find their way back to what they did with the Legend. The RL is too much of the same old thing and the current TL fixes the beak problem but hasn't captured the market's imagination.

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Re: General automotive design thread
« Reply #13 on: November 21, 2013, 04:49:04 pm »
I ponder. How to fix Acura styling. Ideas? :)

Pull a E60-F10 transition and just go back to modernized versions of the old ideas? (3rd gen TL and 1st gen TSX come to mind).

well, ..Infiniti has gone curvy,  Lexus has gone sinewy, Acura could try blocky or bubbly.

i vote for blocky.  or go back to sharpy like the previous generation.

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Re: General automotive design thread
« Reply #14 on: November 21, 2013, 04:56:59 pm »
Thinking about design and function it seems like design is winning out over function in a lot of CUV's lately. Tiny quarter windows,high beltlines and huge C pillars all severely limit visibility. I like a good looking car as much as the next guy but I still want to be able to see out of it!
Old Jag convertible...one itch I won't have to scratch again.

Offline HeliDriver

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Re: General automotive design thread
« Reply #15 on: November 21, 2013, 05:09:02 pm »
The Chinese car market demands tacky, blingy cars for people with poor taste. They want to show off so chrome and "sparkly stuff" is important.....Ive heard this from several reports about their car industry.

And I have been there many times in recent years. There are imbeciles with ridiculous cars, of course, but the vast majority of the show off cars are the same restrained German stuff we get here. A4/A6, 5 series, E-Class etc. And the odd Toyota Crown.

Then you have Lambo / Ferrari drivers of course but its no more bling than your average off the shelf Lambo / Ferrari. Because its the same car.

Just because you read it, doesn't make it true.

Yes, but the question is also whether the Germans would sell even more in China if their designs were less "restrained."  It certainly seems to me that both BMW and especially Mercedes (not so much Audi) are already moving towards more "blingy" design. How much (if any) of that is due to Chinese tastes and influence, I don't know.

I've only been to China once, and remember a conversation with our native tour guide for the day. She was curious about life in Canada, and seemed interested in cars (particularly Rolls Royce). But it was one question in particular that had me speechless for a second: she asked "If you had a Rolls Royce in your driveway, would your neighbours be envious?"

It's funny, because the first thing that I thought was "No, my neighbours would probably think I was a douchebag, but I'd be too embarrassed to have it parked in my driveway in the first place: it's simply too ostentatious."  :)

Anyway, I'm obviously no expert on Chinese culture, but I think it's fair to say that it's a little different from ours. (Or maybe it's not the culture so much as all the new wealth. I'm sure all the nouveau riche Russian oligarchs love their bling, too.) But since China is becoming such a huge market, I can't see how Chinese tastes aren't going to have an influence.

Offline KD

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Re: General automotive design thread
« Reply #16 on: November 21, 2013, 05:36:50 pm »
Thinking about design and function it seems like design is winning out over function in a lot of CUV's lately. Tiny quarter windows,high beltlines and huge C pillars all severely limit visibility. I like a good looking car as much as the next guy but I still want to be able to see out of it!

Exactly why if given the choice between a mustang, or camaro i would chose the mustang simply due to the ridiculously high belt-line in the camaro which makes it seem like sitting in a basement by comparison.  I don't particularly like the design of either though as they are both bigger than they need to be IMO.  On the other hand the subaru forester is not particularly ground breaking in exterior design, but  that's not even a consideration once inside that perfect greenhouse! 
« Last Edit: November 21, 2013, 05:41:47 pm by KarlsDarwin »

Offline HeliDriver

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Re: General automotive design thread
« Reply #17 on: November 21, 2013, 05:50:14 pm »
Thinking about design and function it seems like design is winning out over function in a lot of CUV's lately. Tiny quarter windows,high beltlines and huge C pillars all severely limit visibility. I like a good looking car as much as the next guy but I still want to be able to see out of it!

I wonder how much of that is due to new safety regulations and not just fashion?

Certainly the roof needs to be stronger these days (thicker A/B/C pillars), and the side impact requirements mean a stronger (and higher?) belt line. And then there's the pedestrian safety requirement that mandates a taller hood (which will also probably lead to a higher belt line to keep the car looking normal).

So now that the bottom half of the car is taller, you either chop the roof to keep the whole thing at a reasonable height ( leaving you with gun slit windows), or raise the roof and end up with a tall, ungainly looking thing.

And I think that's a big part of why wheels are so much bigger these days: cars are so tall and slab-sided that anything less than 17" looks tiny.




Offline rrocket

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Re: General automotive design thread
« Reply #18 on: November 21, 2013, 06:05:58 pm »
I went to college and studied Industrial Design so that some day I could design snowmobiles and cars. My favorite designer is Giorgetto Giugiaro.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giorgetto_Giugiaro

http://jalopnik.com/5965166/the-best-giorgetto-giugiaro-designs

Giuagiaro designed the tires on my Supra.   ;D  No joke.

How fast is my 911?  Supras sh*t on on me all the time...in reverse..with blown turbos  :( ...

Offline Snowman

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Re: General automotive design thread
« Reply #19 on: November 21, 2013, 08:43:34 pm »
I went to college and studied Industrial Design so that some day I could design snowmobiles and cars. My favorite designer is Giorgetto Giugiaro.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giorgetto_Giugiaro

http://jalopnik.com/5965166/the-best-giorgetto-giugiaro-designs

Giuagiaro designed the tires on my Supra.   ;D  No joke.



The man is a genius. Everything he designs is awesome.