Topic: Kia Forte, Mazda 3 or Ford Focus?

[morinr]

If you want sporty, why not go all the way and get the Focus ST?  Goes like a scalded cat, handles very well and looks better than anything in the class IMO!  Can't see it being that much more $ than the Titanium.  Not sure if you are a Costco member, but if so, you may want to investigate whether you can combine your work discount with the Costco rebate.   

Costco rebate does not apply to Focus.

Interesting!  I guess i'm not surprised though!  Probably same with fiesta.

Haha yes. Seems only larger cars... that you can actually go shopping at costco and fit stuff in. I get a decent discount through work.

I have heard some not great reviews of the mazda 3 transmission in the long run. Is this true? or is it too early to tell?

[ArticSteve]

I have heard some not great reviews of the mazda 3 transmission in the long run. Is this true? or is it too early to tell?

Will be impossible to discern pre purchase.  I believe the Forte is your destiny.  Let's get it done. SOON!   

[Noto]

Leasing a car over 7 years vs. owning a car for 7 years?

well, let's put it in perspective.  It'd be more economical to lease 2 cars on 3 year terms (or even 4 year terms) than buy a car (especially a compact) and try to re-sell it after 7 years.

IF, on the other hand, the hope is that it lasts 7+ years, i.e. no plan to sell it, but plan to drive it until it dies, then yes, buy it - it will undoubtedly last more than 7 years.

[dkaz]

I have heard of a couple of people with problems with their Skyactiv automatics, but nothing concrete. If you wanted bulletproof reliable with great resale value, I'd go with a Corolla. I love both my Mazda and Toyota each in their own ways.

[Noto]

I have heard of a couple of people with problems with their Skyactiv automatics, but nothing concrete. If you wanted bulletproof reliable with great resale value, I'd go with a Corolla. I love both my Mazda and Toyota each in their own ways.

MIL's 2012 Mazda 3 Skyactiv (2.0L) has nary an issue...but the thing's 2 years old.  The only problem I've seen with it is that when she went all snowbird for the past winter months, I took it for a spin (1 hr each way on the highway) after it not being driven for 2 weeks and the headlights were flickering even on the way home.  Should have been more than enough time to recharge the battery.  It never died, still hasn't, but it did concern me greatly that even after running for so long, the flickers continued.

It doesn't sound to me like he's looking for bulletproof reliability...just something to use for 7 years, and anything beyond that is a bonus.  I still think $7000 down and monthly finance payments over 7 years would be better spent on leasing.

[morinr]

I have heard of a couple of people with problems with their Skyactiv automatics, but nothing concrete. If you wanted bulletproof reliable with great resale value, I'd go with a Corolla. I love both my Mazda and Toyota each in their own ways.

MIL's 2012 Mazda 3 Skyactiv (2.0L) has nary an issue...but the thing's 2 years old.  The only problem I've seen with it is that when she went all snowbird for the past winter months, I took it for a spin (1 hr each way on the highway) after it not being driven for 2 weeks and the headlights were flickering even on the way home.  Should have been more than enough time to recharge the battery.  It never died, still hasn't, but it did concern me greatly that even after running for so long, the flickers continued.

It doesn't sound to me like he's looking for bulletproof reliability...just something to use for 7 years, and anything beyond that is a bonus.  I still think $7000 down and monthly finance payments over 7 years would be better spent on leasing.

In regards to leasing It is not out of the question.... but I personally would like to own the car. I am hoping to have it paid off in 3 yrs.
What time limit would be best for lease vs buy?

After more thought I think I would like to run the car till it dies. I want to try and make the most out of my "investment". I do not plan on buying a new car every 7 yrs or anyhting set in stone.

[Noto]

There's no "exact" date...it depends on the lease rates, finance rates, incentives, etc.

Point is, the general rule is that if you plan on financing/buying a car outright, you should plan on having it for 7-8 years as a minimum JUST TO BREAK EVEN (i.e. you won't see any savings until your 8th- or 9th+ years).  The debate almost boils down to a Buy 2, get 1 free.  If you spend the same amount of money on two 4-year leases as you would buying out a car, then if the car you purchased lasts anywhere longer than 8 years, then any subsequent year is "free" transportation (less running costs, which are likely higher in older cars than in newer ones when fuel economy and maintenance/repairs are factored in).

So it's up to you.  My parents keep their cars for 15+ years with minimal repair costs.  If you're able to do that, then leasing is FAR more expensive.  However, if you plan on trying to sell your purchased car after 7-8 years, you won't be saving much, if anything.

Leasing is essentially insuring against depreciation/repair costs.  If you think your car will never need a $2000+ repair job, and that it'll run for 12 years, then buy it.  I would still always suggest an ECP if you're buying.  It's piece of mind and insurance against expensive repairs that occur right outside of the original manufacturer's warranty.

Our 2010 Corolla had a feather in the paint that caused some minor rust on the trunk lid.  With our ECP, it was taken in and fixed in 3 hours.  Defects happen - doesn't make a car unreliable, but you can take measures to insure against it.

[morinr]

There's no "exact" date...it depends on the lease rates, finance rates, incentives, etc.

Point is, the general rule is that if you plan on financing/buying a car outright, you should plan on having it for 7-8 years as a minimum JUST TO BREAK EVEN (i.e. you won't see any savings until your 8th- or 9th+ years).  The debate almost boils down to a Buy 2, get 1 free.  If you spend the same amount of money on two 4-year leases as you would buying out a car, then if the car you purchased lasts anywhere longer than 8 years, then any subsequent year is "free" transportation (less running costs, which are likely higher in older cars than in newer ones when fuel economy and maintenance/repairs are factored in).

So it's up to you.  My parents keep their cars for 15+ years with minimal repair costs.  If you're able to do that, then leasing is FAR more expensive.  However, if you plan on trying to sell your purchased car after 7-8 years, you won't be saving much, if anything.

Leasing is essentially insuring against depreciation/repair costs.  If you think your car will never need a $2000+ repair job, and that it'll run for 12 years, then buy it.  I would still always suggest an ECP if you're buying.  It's piece of mind and insurance against expensive repairs that occur right outside of the original manufacturer's warranty.

Our 2010 Corolla had a feather in the paint that caused some minor rust on the trunk lid.  With our ECP, it was taken in and fixed in 3 hours.  Defects happen - doesn't make a car unreliable, but you can take measures to insure against it.

Ah Ok I see your point now, sorry was just reading wrong or having a brain fart or something.

I think that I will hoepfully use the car until it dies on me or it is very much oudated. So I will probably use this car till until it dies.

THe ford discount I get is the invoice prices - (invoice price * 4%) so basically just under invoice price + Admin fee. So all in all I save a few thousand, which helps bring the Focus up in the choices... means I can get a titanium for same price as mid range Forte... or save money with the SE. Have to take it for a drive and see the transmission though. What part of it feels strange? or weird with the focus transmission?

[Noto]

... means I can get a titanium for same price as mid range Forte... or save money with the SE. Have to take it for a drive and see the transmission though. What part of it feels strange? or weird with the focus transmission?

I would suggest against the Titanium trim - price them both out, but I think you will get far better value out of a loaded up SE.  I just built both on the website (assuming you want Sedan and not hatch, and Automatic):

SE:  $18,127 + $900 parking package, + $2,000 SE+ package (fog lights/alloy wheels), $350 winter package, $1,300 MyFord Touch package, $800 for navigation, $1,500 for moonroof/leather seats/power seat, total $25,177

Titanium:  $24,899 + $600 parking, $1,200 moonroof, $800 navi, $1,200 leather, total $30,372

I'm not saying you need all of those packages, but I'm showing that to option both up, the Titanium is an extra $3,700 and literally gives you nothing that you can't option in the SE.

If it were my $, I'd get the SE with the parking package, SE+ package, winter package, and leave out the Navi/moonroof/leather.  Total $21,577.

Still, their APR seems to suck some serious d!ck...7.09% for finance or 5.69% for lease.  OUCH!  See if a bank can offer you better...if you're a student, you may get better deals that way.

[Fobroader]

Guy at work has a 2012 Focus Titanium with that fancy slushbox. Hes not very happy with the car because of the gearbox, says in stop and go traffic its very, very jerky and sometimes takes its sweet time to downshift.

[Noto]

I guess then you have to test drive it and decide for yourself.  It's not nearly as bad in the Focus as it is in the Fiesta.

Still, it's just the nature of a DCT unit paired to a small engine...I wouldn't think it is unreliable for it being kinda jumpy.

[morinr]

I just test drive the Forte... pretty nice feel but I still have yet to test drive the Mazda 3. Hopefully can make it this weekend.

The Focus was nice, but just ok in every way if that makes sense.

[Solstice2006]

I just test drive the Forte... pretty nice feel but I still have yet to test drive the Mazda 3. Hopefully can make it this weekend.

The Focus was nice, but just ok in every way if that makes sense.

Well keep us posted, any let us know if you test drive the GX, GS, GT, which engine, etc....

[Noto]

I just test drive the Forte... pretty nice feel but I still have yet to test drive the Mazda 3. Hopefully can make it this weekend.

The Focus was nice, but just ok in every way if that makes sense.

I find that certain cars are only attractive in higher trims.  Take the Forester, for example.  I test drove it in the 2.5i Touring trim (in Canada, that's lower than Limited).  It felt so cheap, underpowered, and utterly a waste of my time.  Then I figured, hey, why not try the XT.  The leather and navi transformed the interior from horrendous to stupendous (well, acceptably so), and the turbo made the engine feel spritely and sound delicious.

I find that the Forte will feel nice in any trim - the toys in higher trims will be nice, but their inclusion or exclusion are not in your face.  The Focus, on the other hand, feels ghastly cheap without the goodies, but loaded feels like an executive lounge (relatively speaking, again).

I think you'll find the same thing with the Mazda 3 - if you test drive it in GX trim, you will not be a happy lad.

Is Kia still offering free snow tires/rims with new purchases? 

http://www.kia.ca/cars/forte/features-and-specs/models-overview
see LX+ "Winter Ready"

Kia's website is showing a $4,000 cash discount on the Forte (but I don't trust those ads to ever hold true at the dealership).  Maybe a Forte is your Forte!

Also remember that many features can be added by the dealer - for example, they can install HIDs from the SX trim onto an LX+ (for a fee, of course).  EX would still be my choice for the 2.0L engine instead of the 1.8L.  SX is nice, but $26k is a little rich.  With a $4,000 discount (if available), however, I could be enticed.

[morinr]

In regards to the Mazda 3, I am going to test drive the GS and with the convience package.

In regards to the KIA, i was looking at the EX models.

After the test drive I will hopefully have made up my mind... then just have to either purchase in Dec or wait until next year.

Have to decide if the 18 hp is a trade off for 6 MPG.... I personally think the 155 is enough for the driving I do.

[Solstice2006]

the 155hp in the Mazda3 is more than adequate, especially for a compact.

[morinr]

the 155hp in the Mazda3 is more than adequate, especially for a compact.

That is my thinking, more than enough especially as 90% of my driving is just me and no passangers. I also really like the styling of the Mazda 3. Seems like a decent deal for the price comparativly especially with the convinience package.

Will be much nicer than the Echo or Montana. My Monatana is slowly dying on me, slow leak in the power stearing fluid system... worn front wheel barings... just replaced the high pressure fuel line as it was leaking.

Anybody have hints or tips on selling of old vehiclkes such as a 2001 Pontiac Montana? or a 1994 Plymoth Grand Voyager?

[Solstice2006]

leave the windows open, with the keys in it, call the insurance company, claim it was stolen...

[tortoise]

Donate to a local college for a tax credit.

[Guy]

For sure, as NoTo indicated do not put $7-8K down if you get 0% or anything below 3% interest rate. My son owns a 2013 Kia Rio5 and this things amazes me; a lot of car for the money, very refined for an entry level car. I'm sure the Forte is too.