Topic: The Quick and the Dad: 2013 Volkswagen GTI

[KD]

VW should make a Golf Wagon sized GTI 

This times eleventy billion.

FWIW, "spacious" is perhaps stretching it a bit, let's say "usable". Some competitor figures below:

2013 VW GTI - 410L
2013 Subaru WRX 5dr - 538L
2013 Mazdaspeed3 - 481L
2014 Focus ST - 673L

That's weird. I remember it being a real pain to get the stroller into the ST, but it fit in the GTI no problem.

This times eleventy billion + 1   

[HeliDriver]

^^ I doubt VW will build it, but with the 2.5 being replaced by a 1.8T in the MKVII (AFAIK), it should be easy enough to build your own.

If the MKVII wagon is as gorgeous as the pictures suggest, I might just have to trade my GTI for one. The 1.8T should be decently powerful stock, but I'm sure with a modest tune it would be as strong as my stock GTI (which is still plenty for me). Add some springs and dampers, and Bob's yer uncle!

Still, I'd be waiting until MY 2016 or so, just to let them work out any bugs with the new platform and assembly line. No rush, as my 2010 GTI has been plenty reliable so far, and likely has a few more trouble-free years ahead of her.

(BTW, I got a letter in the mail a while ago: warranty on the intake manifold has been extended to basically forever - 12 years and 180,000 kms, IIRC.  Mine's good, but apparently breakage is a question of when, not if. Hopefully mine breaks before the regular power train warranty is up - might be able to save a few bucks on carbon-deposit cleaning, too)

[dirtyjeffer]

the "where its made" is most irrelevant nowadays...

Not really; the Jetta and the Golf have always been identical under the skin (with some exceptions like the current Jetta which is larger and uses the ancient 2.0 engine in its base version), yet the Jetta, which is made has is made in Mexico, consistently scores lower than the Golf, which is made in Germany, in CR reliability ratings, for example. Shouldn't be the case since the two cars basically use the same components under the skin, but the difference does exist, at least according to CR. Maybe some of those components are sourced from Mexican suppliers for the cars built in Mexico, which may not be of the same quality as the German-sourced ones, who knows, but what I do know is that I'd have more peace of mind buying the German-built car.

no...the Jetta has always been the "lower end" model everywhere except Canada/USA...while many things are shared, the Jetta is a lower priced product...only the recent versions here align with the rest of the world (something that VW wanted to do, align their products globally)...i personally know several people with VW products, with a mix of Mexico and German assembly and both are equally decent...from my experience, VW has made improvements with most of their products over the last few years, but so have many other companies (Ford, GM, Hyundai/Kia, etc)...they have to...what is possible is there are different suppliers used for whatever that part is in different markets...of course, it is also quite possible that those parts are all sourced from the same supplier and shipped to the various plants globally for assembly...so to say that PART 123 in a Mexican made Jetta is crappy but PART 123 used in the German made Golf is much better could well be BS since PART 123 might be made by Bosch in Germany regardless of whether the car is assembled in the USA, Germany, Mexico or China...i would be very curious to see what the issues were in the two different cars that caused CR (your claim) to give the Mexican made Jetta a poorer rating than a German made Golf and how that can be attributed to where it is assembled.

[JohnM]

"Those North Americans who want the GTI "softened" should have their hearts cut out with obsidian knives and then eaten raw in front of them. "

Those wimps would probably pass out at the site of their heart on a plate so the gesture would be meaningless.  Keep thinking though.

Cheers,
John M.

[Sammy70]

the "where its made" is most irrelevant nowadays...

Not really; the Jetta and the Golf have always been identical under the skin (with some exceptions like the current Jetta which is larger and uses the ancient 2.0 engine in its base version), yet the Jetta, which is made has is made in Mexico, consistently scores lower than the Golf, which is made in Germany, in CR reliability ratings, for example. Shouldn't be the case since the two cars basically use the same components under the skin, but the difference does exist, at least according to CR. Maybe some of those components are sourced from Mexican suppliers for the cars built in Mexico, which may not be of the same quality as the German-sourced ones, who knows, but what I do know is that I'd have more peace of mind buying the German-built car.

no...the Jetta has always been the "lower end" model everywhere except Canada/USA...while many things are shared, the Jetta is a lower priced product...only the recent versions here align with the rest of the world (something that VW wanted to do, align their products globally)...i personally know several people with VW products, with a mix of Mexico and German assembly and both are equally decent...from my experience, VW has made improvements with most of their products over the last few years, but so have many other companies (Ford, GM, Hyundai/Kia, etc)...they have to...what is possible is there are different suppliers used for whatever that part is in different markets...of course, it is also quite possible that those parts are all sourced from the same supplier and shipped to the various plants globally for assembly...so to say that PART 123 in a Mexican made Jetta is crappy but PART 123 used in the German made Golf is much better could well be BS since PART 123 might be made by Bosch in Germany regardless of whether the car is assembled in the USA, Germany, Mexico or China...i would be very curious to see what the issues were in the two different cars that caused CR (your claim) to give the Mexican made Jetta a poorer rating than a German made Golf and how that can be attributed to where it is assembled.

No; regardless of the perception of the Jetta versus the Golf in NA vs any other continent, they share the same components. Your comment about where the parts are sourced out from could well be BS too since neither you nor I actually KNOW where the Mexican-built VWs parts come from. My THEORY that Mexican built VWs may have locally sourced parts was just an attempt of explaining the difference in reliability between the German and Mexican VWs. Which brings me to that "claim"; go to CR website or, if you're not a subscriber, go to the nearest library to check old CR issues and you'll find that since 2007 Rabbits/Golfs have had better than average reliability rating while Jettas have had average or worse. It's a known fact that all the NA Golfs since 2007 are German while all the Jettas are Mexican (I can't remember what the situation was before 2007, but I believe is was not so clear cut). That's proof enough for me that a German built Golf is a better bet. If you'd rather go by the experience of the statistically insignificant number of VW owners you know, knock yourself out. We'll have to agree to disagree.

[dirtyjeffer]

No; regardless of the perception of the Jetta versus the Golf in NA vs any other continent, they share the same components.

i am sure they do share a lot of components, but likely not all...if you could provide some links as to specifically what is "poorer" in the Jettas vs Golfs...i am curious what CR has to say.

Your comment about where the parts are sourced out from could well be BS too since neither you nor I actually KNOW where the Mexican-built VWs parts come from.

i never said it was fact...i simply used it as a possible example.

My THEORY that Mexican built VWs may have locally sourced parts was just an attempt of explaining the difference in reliability between the German and Mexican VWs.

your theory isn't fact either.

Which brings me to that "claim"; go to CR website or, if you're not a subscriber, go to the nearest library to check old CR issues and you'll find that since 2007 Rabbits/Golfs have had better than average reliability rating while Jettas have had average or worse. It's a known fact that all the NA Golfs since 2007 are German while all the Jettas are Mexican (I can't remember what the situation was before 2007, but I believe is was not so clear cut). That's proof enough for me that a German built Golf is a better bet. If you'd rather go by the experience of the statistically insignificant number of VW owners you know, knock yourself out. We'll have to agree to disagree.

i assume you have a CR membership since it was you that brought it up...i don't have a CR membership and i'm not about to go to a library...if you have the details, share them with us...i am very curious as to what specifically they have to say about each vehicle and why the Jetta gets a poor rating a the Golf a better one...you said yourself, they use the same parts, so if they use the same parts, then it can't be "crappy parts" as they are the same.

and as i already said, the majority of auto assembly is automated...the robots doing the work don't care where they are located...a Siemens S7 PLC controlling an ABB robot welding seams, installing windshields or painting cars are identical regardless of where they are located.

[JohnM]

Quality is more than robot deep.

There is a galaxy of factors going into quality and culture and heritage are two of them.  These permeate operations all the way down the line.  Infrastructure is important.  All of these take time to develop. 

The achievement curve now is extremely steep but the last few percent can take many years to achieve.

So bottom line is that I'd bet on a car built by well paid workers and XYZ robots in a stable and progressive society against poorly paid workers using the same robots in a highly unstable and exploitive society.

Technology injections can narrow the difference but it is still there - witness Japan and Germany vs Mexico and the UK.

Cheers,
John M.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

The Golf/Rabbit gets average reliability from CR, and is recommended. The GTI is well below average and isn't recommended. The Jetta also gets average reliability from CR and is recommended. The GLI is still listed as "too new", I'm willing to gamble that it will be close to the GTI.

I went through the effort of comparing reliability to country of origin with VW in the past. There was no correlation between them. Some German assembled cars were good, some were poor, and the same from cars assembled in Mexico.

[dirtyjeffer]

The Golf/Rabbit gets average reliability from CR, and is recommended. The GTI is well below average and isn't recommended. The Jetta also gets average reliability from CR and is recommended. The GLI is still listed as "too new", I'm willing to gamble that it will be close to the GTI.

I went through the effort of comparing reliability to country of origin with VW in the past. There was no correlation between them. Some German assembled cars were good, some were poor, and the same from cars assembled in Mexico.

exactly...Golf, Rabbits and GTIs are made in Germany...the Jettas are made in Mexico.

[dirtyjeffer]

Quality is more than robot deep.

There is a galaxy of factors going into quality and culture and heritage are two of them.  These permeate operations all the way down the line.  Infrastructure is important.  All of these take time to develop. 

of course...but my point was about the country where it is assembled has very little to do with it...most of the assembly is done by automated processes...as well, if the parts are identical, then any quality issues will be there regardless of where it is made, again proving my point about the assembly location being a non-factor...if the parts are different, than the issue is with the parts being used, not where it is assembled.

[KD]

FWIW our car was hecho en Mexico and it has been totally solid and reliable with absolutely no issues in the 107K that we have driven during the 4 years that we have owned it!  We had one recall to reflash the transmission module although we didn't notice any shifting problems. My wife absolutely loves how it drives and is very confident with the awd.  No complaints from me either!