Author Topic: TestFest Report: 2014 AJAC CUOTY SUVS, Crossovers and Pickups (Read 7319 times)

Autos_Editor · « **on:** October 30, 2013, 06:26:54 am »

Autos.ca editors and contributors descended on Niagara Falls to test the latest 2014 models in a variety of competitive categories. This report covers utility vehicles and pickups.

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tooscoops · « **Reply #1 on:** October 30, 2013, 09:38:35 am »

again... not that these mean a whole lot... but still good to get a glimpse into the vehicles from people going back and forth between them.

though the subaru might be the best buy in the first category, i'd think the cherokee for it's available features could get a win there.

mercedes should get a win in the next one just for the engine offering with the GC coming not too far back (depending how much you hated the drive... as a note to any driving the v6, put it in sport mode... feels like a different truck i find)

The pricey guys... (surprised jeep didn't try to eek into this category with a 3.0L diesel summit)... you seem to love the x5... but me... i have never liked it. not sure i can place why. in any event, i'd pick the range rover.

though you seem to favour the ram in the truck category, i don't think it should be there. isn't is just new vehicles (or major refreshes)? the only thing new for the 14 ram is the diesel, so unless that is what they give you to test, i think they shouldn't count it. so sierra for me.

wing · « **Reply #2 on:** October 30, 2013, 09:44:33 am »

I could be wrong but the RAM couldn't enter last year as it was the only new truck so they put it in this year. But I think Sierra will win on price.

redman · « **Reply #3 on:** October 30, 2013, 09:58:13 am »

Interesting, but found it odd that the new Grand Cherokee in it's diesel format was not included in the Category: SUV/CUV over $60,000. It would a formidable contender with the high torque low fuel engine. Even the GJ with it's V8 would be a good contender here.

Black Hatch · « **Reply #4 on:** October 30, 2013, 10:24:02 am »

"2014 AJAC SUV, Crossover and Pickups"

...and I believe the RAV4 is a 2013...

Of course I think this happened before when the 2004 Mazda6 hatch was considered a 2005 model.

And no 2014 CX-5 with upgraded engine (same as motortrend, though their explanations of other upgraded models that competed was less clear)
I always wondered about that.
Say a car manufacturer brings a diesel engine (say mazda6 next year), would that qualify it for coty next year?

wing · « **Reply #5 on:** October 30, 2013, 10:52:55 am »

Qualify, yes. It's up to the manu to pony up the tens of thousands to enter the car though.

Black Hatch · « **Reply #6 on:** October 30, 2013, 10:59:39 am »

Quote from: wing on October 30, 2013, 10:52:55 am

Qualify, yes. It's up to the manu to pony up the tens of thousands to enter the car though.

I didn't realize the manufacturer's could choose what vehicles to submit.
Are you saying mazda could have submitted the 2.5L 2014 CX-5 to the comparison? (if they pony up the dough)

I thought the choices were done by the ajac so that they were restricted to "new" vehicle models.
Car and driver seems to like to keep previous year winners and compare them to the new models allowing the Accord to win multiple years.

inco · « **Reply #7 on:** October 30, 2013, 10:59:52 am »

Quote from: wing on October 30, 2013, 10:52:55 am

Qualify, yes. It's up to the manu to pony up the tens of thousands to enter the car though.

Wing can you expand on that? Does each manufacturer have to pay the cost of submitting each car for consideration? And how does all that work? I assume this is done to cover the cost of staging the event.

Snowman · « **Reply #8 on:** October 30, 2013, 11:16:43 am »

Another example of the tail wagging the dog.

Northernridge · « **Reply #9 on:** October 30, 2013, 11:17:00 am »

Review after review says the Ram is a very good truck. But it does get lots of online abuse from people who seem to have not driven one.

Snowman · « **Reply #10 on:** October 30, 2013, 11:32:26 am »

Quote from: Northernridge on October 30, 2013, 11:17:00 am

Review after review says the Ram is a very good truck. But it does get lots of online abuse from people who seem to have not driven one.

Have a friend in Thompson who was a GM man for 20 years but he picked up a new Longhorn and is blown away by how nice it is.

wing · « **Reply #11 on:** October 30, 2013, 11:34:41 am »

Manufacturers choose what they want to send and where it will fit / ie which category by choosing which options / pricing they submit.

Sounds bad but in reality most manus aren't building cars for this, they just send in cars they were going to use as press cars anyways. Typically cars with the most desired options.

AJAC has a set of rules that allows a car to qualify so not all cars would qualify, the main rule is that it must be new or sig improved.

Yes they pay, I don't know how much but I've heard numbers like $10-$30k for each submission.

blotter · « **Reply #12 on:** October 30, 2013, 11:36:28 am »

interesting on the Cherokee. This is the first review that didn't like the 9 speed transmission in the V6
I've seen a few other reviews that all seemed to like it.

Noto · « **Reply #13 on:** October 30, 2013, 11:49:38 am »

Saddens me that this competition is losing credibility based on their 'blurred lines' for categories.

It's kind of ridiculous, actually, that the BMW X5 is the most expensive on the list, given that there's also a Porsche and a Range Rover in there. I'm glad that 'value for money' is included in the judgement, but let's be honest - like in a previous thread, even Spock is not a true Vulcan. I've driven Mazda3s as stripper rental cars, and then fully loaded versions at test drives. It's like night and day, considering they're the same car.

There's simply too many offerings available now to make these kind of competitions without more stringent criteria for categorical separations. I'm also moderately concerned about what these awards do to influence the consumer based on what may be false advertising - how can a vehicle be the "best car in the segment" when 'older' models aren't included (because they were redesigned a year earlier)? Most consumers don't read the fine print, they just see an award of "this is the best car" and they buy it.

In any event, I applaud Autos.ca staff for covering the AJAC testfest before the official winners are announced, giving their own opinions (but none so direct as to provide a "winner", in most circumstances), and providing comments on constructive criticism they have that may not make it into the final publications released by AJAC.

Good job, Laddies and Lassies!

jyarkony · « **Reply #14 on:** October 30, 2013, 12:14:59 pm »

Quote from: blotter on October 30, 2013, 11:36:28 am

interesting on the Cherokee. This is the first review that didn't like the 9 speed transmission in the V6
I've seen a few other reviews that all seemed to like it.

TTAC also criticized it with the V6 - I thought it hunted a bit, but was generally fine... i think the lack of extended cruising at high speeds might have prevented it from getting into that ninth gear...

Quote

how can a vehicle be the "best car in the segment" when 'older' models aren't included (because they were redesigned a year earlier)? Most consumers don't read the fine print, they just see an award of "this is the best car" and they buy it.

this is one of my biggest criticisms as well. there is no question that there are some essential compromises in order to pull off such a large scale comparison regimen. I have begun campaigning for a segment in focus category, where AJAC gets to pick the cars and trims in one key category (and relax the requirement of the entrance fee considering they are ponying up an entire car or two) of significant interest to consumers - as an individual outlet we can't dictate trims and availability to our satisfaction for an entire segment, but perhaps as a body AJAC and the CCOTY team could pull of this type of ultimate Comparison and testing - that is one of the biggest reasons that I am in AJAC and go to TestFest - to make that perfect comparison happen. We can't necessarily do it from here in the forum (though i take your input to heart and agree with certain parts of the criticism), so I'm trying to work my way up so I can effect positive change from the inside. I think overall it's a heck of a lot better than the armchair voting conducted by many of the other awards bodies.

and thanks for the compliments NoTo - but beyond this article, Justin Pritchard and Lesley Wimbush are both on the CCOTY Committee, and they (and the rest of the committee and team) work their keisters off pulling off this event, so they deserve huge props for working so hard to do the best we can. the fact that the winners aren't announced was actually a significant change this year, which is cool to build up suspense and generate conversation before announcing finalists and winners...

tooscoops · « **Reply #15 on:** October 30, 2013, 12:25:30 pm »

well, if the ram IS allowed in there... it would be impressive if it beats out the two actual new models considering they had a benchmark to beat and a year to do it.

What i'd like to see is the entry level cars getting reviewed... then a well equipped one getting reviewed. if the base car is good, super!.. then it comes down to reviewing the options available and the consumer can then see if they would like to add those options that are deemed worthwhile. just my thought.

Noto · « **Reply #16 on:** October 30, 2013, 12:45:34 pm »

Quote from: jyarkony on October 30, 2013, 12:14:59 pm

We can't necessarily do it from here in the forum (though i take your input to heart and agree with certain parts of the criticism), so I'm trying to work my way up so I can effect positive change from the inside. I think overall it's a heck of a lot better than the armchair voting conducted by many of the other awards bodies.

and thanks for the compliments NoTo - but beyond this article, Justin Pritchard and Lesley Wimbush are both on the CCOTY Committee, and they (and the rest of the committee and team) work their keisters off pulling off this event, so they deserve huge props for working so hard to do the best we can. the fact that the winners aren't announced was actually a significant change this year, which is cool to build up suspense and generate conversation before announcing finalists and winners...

I agree, wholeheartedly, and do appreciate the work you guys do. Especially since this website (and forum) are all provided to we, the users, free of charge, I'd say Autos.ca is providing life enrichment services and are doing a great job of it!

And thank you, more so, for trying to effect change. It's funny - comment sections on pretty much article get out of hand and usually involve nothing but bashing of other commenters...but I like that in this forum, our comments, if constructive, eventually will make their way to the manufacturers.

[/a$$ kissing

]

MarkStevenson · « **Reply #17 on:** October 30, 2013, 02:31:04 pm »

Quote from: tooscoops on October 30, 2013, 09:38:35 am

though the subaru might be the best buy in the first category, i'd think the cherokee for it's available features could get a win there.

The pricey guys... (surprised jeep didn't try to eek into this category with a 3.0L diesel summit)... you seem to love the x5... but me... i have never liked it. not sure i can place why. in any event, i'd pick the range rover.

though you seem to favour the ram in the truck category, i don't think it should be there. isn't is just new vehicles (or major refreshes)? the only thing new for the 14 ram is the diesel, so unless that is what they give you to test, i think they shouldn't count it. so sierra for me.

Personally, the Cherokee's looks and the fact the nine-speed transmission straight up didn't work is what shot it down for me. Subaru gets the square.

As for the X5, holy hell it's fast. And, the HD screen is truly a piece of technological art. Did I mention it's fast? Though, I think I am with you, I'd rather the Range Rover. The "prick meter" for the X5 is pretty high (though, that didn't worked into my scoring).

Sierra > Ram for me too. For the Sierra, it's all about the ergonomics, seriously low NVH, and the Sierra's drivetrain is butter smooth compared to the Ram.

MarkStevenson · « **Reply #18 on:** October 30, 2013, 02:33:27 pm »

Quote from: wing on October 30, 2013, 11:34:41 am

Manufacturers choose what they want to send and where it will fit / ie which category by choosing which options / pricing they submit.

Sounds bad but in reality most manus aren't building cars for this, they just send in cars they were going to use as press cars anyways. Typically cars with the most desired options.

AJAC has a set of rules that allows a car to qualify so not all cars would qualify, the main rule is that it must be new or sig improved.

Yes they pay, I don't know how much but I've heard numbers like $10-$30k for each submission.

I believe the entry fee per submission is $9,000.

tooscoops · « **Reply #19 on:** October 30, 2013, 03:21:49 pm »

i wonder if the fact that the journo's got a pre-production car made a difference in the cherokees transmission. they are finally starting to show up on lots this past week, but the ones on test courses and such were running on the old mapping and such that was causing the delay in the launch.