Topic: What Do You Do With 1,200 Tonnes of Crushed Rock?

[rrocket]

There are plenty of nice, gravely roads in the Escarpment area...not terribly far from where the testing is being done.  I bet for 95%+ of CUV buyers, this is as rough as they'll see.  There was some steep hills and some loose dirt the day I took my car there.

[Black Hatch]

Um...
Maybe its easier to pull out a stuck vehicle from a man-made gravel filled parking lot than it is from an actual off-road site? 

[Fobroader]

Um...
Maybe its easier to pull out a stuck vehicle from a man-made gravel filled parking lot than it is from an actual off-road site? 

Thats why you get a local 4x4 club involved. They will have the knowledge of the trails, proper vehicles and recovery equipment. A local offroad park would host a Range Rover/Land Rover day with the RR dealer and would have our Jeep club there for recovery. It was funny to see a guy willing to bash his $100k RR on a steep, muddy trail.....kinda cool.

Sent from my Galaxy S3

[Black Hatch]

Um...
Maybe its easier to pull out a stuck vehicle from a man-made gravel filled parking lot than it is from an actual off-road site? 

Thats why you get a local 4x4 club involved. They will have the knowledge of the trails, proper vehicles and recovery equipment. A local offroad park would host a Range Rover/Land Rover day with the RR dealer and would have our Jeep club there for recovery. It was funny to see a guy willing to bash his $100k RR on a steep, muddy trail.....kinda cool.

Sent from my Galaxy S3

So someones going to be bringing a D6 Cat?

And where does the insurance go for the test vehicles if they get damaged from the tow?

[Fobroader]

Um...
Maybe its easier to pull out a stuck vehicle from a man-made gravel filled parking lot than it is from an actual off-road site? 

Thats why you get a local 4x4 club involved. They will have the knowledge of the trails, proper vehicles and recovery equipment. A local offroad park would host a Range Rover/Land Rover day with the RR dealer and would have our Jeep club there for recovery. It was funny to see a guy willing to bash his $100k RR on a steep, muddy trail.....kinda cool.

Sent from my Galaxy S3

So someones going to be bringing a D6 Cat?

And where does the insurance go for the test vehicles if they get damaged from the tow?

What the hell do you need a Catterpillar for?? A proper recovery doesnt need a 60 ton bulldozer.

[Black Hatch]

Um...
Maybe its easier to pull out a stuck vehicle from a man-made gravel filled parking lot than it is from an actual off-road site? 

Thats why you get a local 4x4 club involved. They will have the knowledge of the trails, proper vehicles and recovery equipment. A local offroad park would host a Range Rover/Land Rover day with the RR dealer and would have our Jeep club there for recovery. It was funny to see a guy willing to bash his $100k RR on a steep, muddy trail.....kinda cool.

Sent from my Galaxy S3

So someones going to be bringing a D6 Cat?

And where does the insurance go for the test vehicles if they get damaged from the tow?

What the hell do you need a Catterpillar for?? A proper recovery doesnt need a 60 ton bulldozer.

I dunno if you drive into muskeg areas (typical of northern alberta) doubt you can get pulled out by anything but a dozer or something with tracks.

[Bubba]

All tests should be like this: http://www.caranddriver.com/features/escape-from-baja   

[Fobroader]

Um...
Maybe its easier to pull out a stuck vehicle from a man-made gravel filled parking lot than it is from an actual off-road site? 

Thats why you get a local 4x4 club involved. They will have the knowledge of the trails, proper vehicles and recovery equipment. A local offroad park would host a Range Rover/Land Rover day with the RR dealer and would have our Jeep club there for recovery. It was funny to see a guy willing to bash his $100k RR on a steep, muddy trail.....kinda cool.

Sent from my Galaxy S3

So someones going to be bringing a D6 Cat?

And where does the insurance go for the test vehicles if they get damaged from the tow?

What the hell do you need a Catterpillar for?? A proper recovery doesnt need a 60 ton bulldozer.

I dunno if you drive into muskeg areas (typical of northern alberta) doubt you can get pulled out by anything but a dozer or something with tracks.

We stayed far, far away from muskeg, we went to the mountains. You stay out of muskeg always!!

[Black Hatch]

Um...
Maybe its easier to pull out a stuck vehicle from a man-made gravel filled parking lot than it is from an actual off-road site? 

Thats why you get a local 4x4 club involved. They will have the knowledge of the trails, proper vehicles and recovery equipment. A local offroad park would host a Range Rover/Land Rover day with the RR dealer and would have our Jeep club there for recovery. It was funny to see a guy willing to bash his $100k RR on a steep, muddy trail.....kinda cool.

Sent from my Galaxy S3

So someones going to be bringing a D6 Cat?

And where does the insurance go for the test vehicles if they get damaged from the tow?

What the hell do you need a Catterpillar for?? A proper recovery doesnt need a 60 ton bulldozer.

I dunno if you drive into muskeg areas (typical of northern alberta) doubt you can get pulled out by anything but a dozer or something with tracks.

We stayed far, far away from muskeg, we went to the mountains. You stay out of muskeg always!!

When I was doing test pits in Hinton for Hwy 40, you can't believe the number of areas where there were muskeg areas.
Heck alot of the highway was BUILT on muskeg.

[Fobroader]

Um...
Maybe its easier to pull out a stuck vehicle from a man-made gravel filled parking lot than it is from an actual off-road site? 

Thats why you get a local 4x4 club involved. They will have the knowledge of the trails, proper vehicles and recovery equipment. A local offroad park would host a Range Rover/Land Rover day with the RR dealer and would have our Jeep club there for recovery. It was funny to see a guy willing to bash his $100k RR on a steep, muddy trail.....kinda cool.

Sent from my Galaxy S3

So someones going to be bringing a D6 Cat?

And where does the insurance go for the test vehicles if they get damaged from the tow?

What the hell do you need a Catterpillar for?? A proper recovery doesnt need a 60 ton bulldozer.

I dunno if you drive into muskeg areas (typical of northern alberta) doubt you can get pulled out by anything but a dozer or something with tracks.

We stayed far, far away from muskeg, we went to the mountains. You stay out of muskeg always!!

When I was doing test pits in Hinton for Hwy 40, you can't believe the number of areas where there were muskeg areas.
Heck alot of the highway was BUILT on muskeg.

Found lots of rocks, clay and mud....muskeg, hell no. We all steered very clear even if it meant taking a sketchy line.

[Black Hatch]

Um...
Maybe its easier to pull out a stuck vehicle from a man-made gravel filled parking lot than it is from an actual off-road site? 

Thats why you get a local 4x4 club involved. They will have the knowledge of the trails, proper vehicles and recovery equipment. A local offroad park would host a Range Rover/Land Rover day with the RR dealer and would have our Jeep club there for recovery. It was funny to see a guy willing to bash his $100k RR on a steep, muddy trail.....kinda cool.

Sent from my Galaxy S3

So someones going to be bringing a D6 Cat?

And where does the insurance go for the test vehicles if they get damaged from the tow?

What the hell do you need a Catterpillar for?? A proper recovery doesnt need a 60 ton bulldozer.

I dunno if you drive into muskeg areas (typical of northern alberta) doubt you can get pulled out by anything but a dozer or something with tracks.

We stayed far, far away from muskeg, we went to the mountains. You stay out of muskeg always!!

When I was doing test pits in Hinton for Hwy 40, you can't believe the number of areas where there were muskeg areas.
Heck alot of the highway was BUILT on muskeg.

Found lots of rocks, clay and mud....muskeg, hell no. We all steered very clear even if it meant taking a sketchy line.

Eh sketchy?

I was just pandering to the what if scenario since you suggested Alberta as a proving ground. Gravel roads mean nothing to most vehicles.

Alot of solid trails can become unpassable during spring thaw and you would need construction equipment to get vehicles stuck out.
So I guess don't do a trail comparison during spring thaw?

[MarkStevenson]

You guys should really do these tests in Alberta or BC, we have lots of offroad areas that dont require you to truck in sand and gravel to make obstacles. Plus, you can take said vehicles on mountain roads to see what they are like. Need a heavy load to test trailering capabilities, no problem, Ive got a few friends with gooseneck trailers and players choice of offroad buggies, water tanks or bobcats for weight. 

Agree 100% There are many off road areas a few hours drive north of the GTA that could facilitate the test. Groomed gravel mounds is not even close to reality 

Testfest is not in Ontario Wine country by accident! Can't have those AJAC members roughing it you know.
Railton

It's all about the wining and dining.  It's stuff like this that ruins the credibility of the ajac.




Sent from my Vic20 using Java Moose

Exactly. When the manufactures dictate the terms and conditions of the test then there is no credibility.....Zero. AJAC must set the rules and if one or two don't show up then clearly they are concerned their products won't measure up. The readers will see though that and focus on what vehicles that were there.  "X did not offer vehicles for the test as they had concerns" Print that, and grow some. If not then all AJAC will be perceived is another advertising outlet for the manufactures who buy their way in.

There is one manufacturer that doesn't take part.

[blotter]

Thats why you get a local 4x4 club involved. They will have the knowledge of the trails, proper vehicles and recovery equipment. A local offroad park would host a Range Rover/Land Rover day with the RR dealer and would have our Jeep club there for recovery. It was funny to see a guy willing to bash his $100k RR on a steep, muddy trail.....kinda cool.

I don't believe Niagara has a local 4x4 club, let alone an offroad park.
The ATV folks can barely organize themself.   It's a huge problem in Niagara for some of these groups.
Unless you're on private properly, most folks are offroading illegally around here.   

[MR2Pritch]

As an Ajac member, as well as Co-Chair of the Canadian Car of the Year Awards (for which this off-road course was built), I'm deeply offended by these comments that we're a 'joke'.

This course was to provide a level playing field for Canada's top auto experts to consistently evaluate new models against one another on the same surfaces. It doesn't need to recreate the world's nastiest off-road conditions. It's a testing exercise, not a torture test.

The event takes place in Niagara falls because there is 1) room for journalists, manufacturers, support staff, etc, to stay in proximity to one another and 2) because of the facilities and roads nearby.

This event requires journalist voters to drive as many as 13 vehicles back to back in identical conditions on the same day. So driving 30, 40 or 60 minutes between locations isn't possible.

Not sure what it is about carrying out the only testing process of its kind in the world, which validates winning vehicles with tens of thousands of data points under controlled and consistent conditions, makes this a joke?

I look forward to having a constructive conversation and answering questions with anyone who'd first like to get their facts straight.

[MarkStevenson]

As an Ajac member, as well as Co-Chair of the Canadian Car of the Year Awards (for which this off-road course was built), I'm deeply offended by these comments that we're a 'joke'.

This course was to provide a level playing field for Canada's top auto experts to consistently evaluate new models against one another on the same surfaces. It doesn't need to recreate the world's nastiest off-road conditions. It's a testing exercise, not a torture test.

The event takes place in Niagara falls because there is 1) room for journalists, manufacturers, support staff, etc, to stay in proximity to one another and 2) because of the facilities and roads nearby.

This event requires journalist voters to drive as many as 13 vehicles back to back in identical conditions on the same day. So driving 30, 40 or 60 minutes between locations isn't possible.

Not sure what it is about carrying out the only testing process of its kind in the world, which validates winning vehicles with tens of thousands of data points under controlled and consistent conditions, makes this a joke?

I look forward to having a constructive conversation and answering questions with anyone who'd first like to get their facts straight.

As someone taking in TestFest for the first time, it was a very well sorted event but a ton of work as the blisters on my feet will attest.

The marking system is thorough, there isn't any "wining and dining" by automakers (to the contrary, its strictly forbidden), and it isn't necessarily the nicest weather (high winds, rain, and lots of slop at times). By the time I got home, I was absolutely exhausted.

The cottage road and hill for testing hill descent were fantastic considering it was a first year setup. The hill needs to be a little taller but that will change for next year (or so I heard). The cottage road was incredibly tight and rocky. I might drive on a road like that once every year or two and it definitely wasn't something I'd drive on with a family hatchback.

Thanks Justin. The work done by you and the rest of the CCOTY committee was phenomenal.

[Snowman]

My comments were directed towards the "off-road" testing and regardless of the explanation and logic for combining with the "on road" testing my opinion will not change. Call it a "gravel road" test but not "off road" Many here on this board fully understand what "off roading" is, don't BS the regular players.

[johngenx]

Link still only takes me to the story about the gravel and not how the vehicles performed.

[MR2Pritch]

voting scores assigned by journalists need to go to accounting firm KPMG where they're weighted and assigned a simple point score before being laid out against one another. The results will be announced Dec 3rd!