Topic: First Drive: 2014 Toyota Corolla

[Frontier1]

I agree with John, people think the world of the Corolla for what it is.  On the other hand every time Nissan comes out with a new iteration of the Sentra and fail to install a monster engine under the hood and the SER moniker on the trunk lid it's the end of the world.  Much like the XRS, Nissan failed with the SER, did not sell, so why make one?  My wife misses her 08 Sentra a lot, one word described that car "smooth", it had drums in the back, good overall fuel economy, zero defects, a trunk that allowed us to bring home a 52" Samsung TV in the box, all the groceries on top, you cannot do that with most sedans   It was a very ordinary car to look at, solid, no squeaks or rattles, inexpensive, came with hands free phone which was often a $500 option/addon or not available on others, yet the car was viewed as Nissan missing the mark.  Todays new version is the closest thing to a Corolla, and CR says "the driving experience is underwhelming, handling is uninspiring, acceleration feels lethargic" none of this would ever cross my 56 y/o wife's mind or anyone like her for that matter.

[Black Hatch]

I don't get the hate for the Corolla.  It's not an enthusiast car, and never will be.  Toyota has designed it to appeal to the greatest number of people possible.  This thing is all about sales, pure and simple.  It's not a niche car.  The vast majority of buyers want a comfortable car that gets excellent fuel economy, lasts a long time, is cheap to insure (premiums not driven up by ricer-racer claims), and holds it's value.

"Where's the 200hp version?"

Uh, why?  Other than a few folks kicking around here, 99.99% of Corolla buyers don't even know how many horsepower their cars has!  Seriously!  They just care that it has enough that it feels peppy.  "But Honda sells the Si."  Yes, they do. But Toyota is going after the mass market, period.

"Where's the nineteen speed DSG-style transmission." 

This car is $19,500 in what will be the most popular model/trim.  That price includes a CVT, LED headlamps, AC/Cruise/Etc, and a TON of safety gear including knee airbags.  Ask 99.99% of Corolla buyers how many gears in the transmission, and they don't care.  Enough that it feels right and gets great fuel economy.

"The handling needs to be razor sharp!!"

Why?  Oh, yeah, I forgot, the Corolla is THE autocross machine everyone's been waiting for!  Seriously, 99.99% of owners want a comfortable ride with predictable handling that has no surprises.  Toyota is not going after the small number of Si buyers, etc.  They're going wide, really wide.

"No rear discs!!??"

Our 2700lb Corolla stops very well.  It rides on pretty conservative tires (though we have H-rated performance tires on ours) and the brakes work very well.  Maybe not a on track day or with the car being wrung out on a mountain road, but who does that in a Corolla?  The rear drums work more than well enough.  And they LAST.  Our car has 125K on it, and the rear shoes are barely half worn.  It's a very front heavy FWD car that has no performance mission whatsoever.

Would I buy a Corolla for myself?  No.  Is it the PERFECT car for my missus?  Yes.  She has no idea of how many HP the engine makes or the number of speeds in the transmission or whether it has rear discs or not.  Really.  She has no clue about those things.  She knows it will go 550-600km on 42L of fuel in all city driving and over 800km on the highway.  She knows it costs $600/yr to insure.  She knows it has never needed a repair and rarely needs servicing.  She knows it rides nicely and never surprises her when she turns the wheel or uses one of the pedals.  (unlike some other cars we've owned)  Perfect.  So perfect in fact, that she'd never consider another brand were she shopping today.  If she needed a new car, she'd go to the Toyota dealer and find something there.  Maybe a RAV, or Venza, or another sedan.  Probably another Corolla.

How is that bad business?  If I were an auto exec, I'd dream about creating customers like that.  Toyota has LOTS of them.

The way that auto industry and sales are going, it's the extreme fear that the Toyota Corolla will become a monopoly, the be-all and end-all car from that we all have to drive.
The CVT beige Corolla.  Nothing else to choose.

No its not an enthusiast car, but think economics (if you are pessimistic enough) can make the Corolla the ONLY car you can have, that is available.

Just think of losing Mazda and Subaru brand of cars that cater to driver enjoyment. That may be a sad day.
(also not everyone can afford to keep more than one car)

References (signs of the above)
-The fewer buyers of manual transmissions (at least in NA), Honda CR-V and many other main-stream vehicles not even available with manual
-Women buyers (more likelihood that the car has to cater to the female population which generally prefer reliability over performance)
-More volume could equals more dealership shops making it easier to find a dealership for service. (most people use dealerships and not independent garages)
-More sharing simplicity of parts
-Equality - to rid of the brand discrimination. everyone has the same vehicle so whats to judge. 

Think of it as everyone having to don the same school uniforms for equality. (Can't think of simple comparison this early in the morning)

[johngenx]

There are more RWD performance cars on the market right now offering outrageous levels of ability than perhaps even in the 60's.  We have the excellent Miata (still!) FR-S, BR-Z, Genesis, Mustang, Camaro, and on and on.  All of them can easily be had with manual transmissions.

Step up the budget and makers are offering us super-cars that would have run well over $100K not long ago for $60-70K.  The C7 Corvette is about $60K and the TT-RS is $70K.  Want a fire-breathing V-8 or a track-ripping AWD four seater?

We've always had the "beige Corolla."  The majority of auto consumers were just interested in transportation.  Compact cars, mid sized sedans, CUVs, SUVs and mini-vans are mostly about transporting people and their stuff.  This has always been true, the cars just looked different.  I'm old enough to recall neghbourhoods full of boat-sized station wagons.  Really pining for those days?

As for Mazda being sainted as the provider of enthusiast vehicles, really?  Do they still sell the RX-8?  Nope.  Their only RWD manual trans car designed for enthusiasts is now the MX-5/Miata.

[mixmanmash]

True, but take the average Mazda product and put it up against the average Toyota product.  Forget looks as that is one's opinion (I prefer Mazda's looks), but I feel the Mazda would be the more enjoyable product to drive.

[johngenx]

When we bought the Corolla, we drove all the various compacts, and I was anticipating something a little more exciting from the 3.  Frankly, with all the hype, I figured unicorns with rainbows shooting out their arses would be less exciting than driving the 3.

And what I found was just another FWD car that wants to burn the front tires to nothing at the slightest hint of actually being pushed.

Meh

[mixmanmash]

When we bought the Corolla, we drove all the various compacts, and I was anticipating something a little more exciting from the 3.  Frankly, with all the hype, I figured unicorns with rainbows shooting out their arses would be less exciting than driving the 3.

And what I found was just another FWD car that wants to burn the front tires to nothing at the slightest hint of actually being pushed.

Meh

Really?  I found the polar opposite in 2003 when I bought my Protege.  The Corolla's manual gearbox was far from smooth, and the steering offered no feedback.  The Sentra offered more feedback, but the interior was cramped.  The Protege offered almost the same interior space as the Corolla, a great manual transmission and great feedback.  Plus with $6000 off, who was I to argue.

[Black Hatch]

There are more RWD performance cars on the market right now offering outrageous levels of ability than perhaps even in the 60's.  We have the excellent Miata (still!) FR-S, BR-Z, Genesis, Mustang, Camaro, and on and on.  All of them can easily be had with manual transmissions.

Step up the budget and makers are offering us super-cars that would have run well over $100K not long ago for $60-70K.  The C7 Corvette is about $60K and the TT-RS is $70K.  Want a fire-breathing V-8 or a track-ripping AWD four seater?

As I said, not EVERYONE can afford to keep a second vehicle (be it space or price).
The fear I am saying is that each household being restricted to ONE vehicle... and it may as well be a Corolla.
Could you live with that?

As for Mazda being sainted as the provider of enthusiast vehicles, really?  Do they still sell the RX-8?  Nope.  Their only RWD manual trans car designed for enthusiasts is now the MX-5/Miata.

A new rotary sports vehicle is in the works in 2 years time.
http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2013/08/mazda-rotary-engine-to-return-in-two-years-with-all-new-model.html

[johngenx]

As I said, not EVERYONE can afford to keep a second vehicle (be it space or price).
The fear I am saying is that each household being restricted to ONE vehicle... and it may as well be a Corolla.
Could you live with that?

No, but almost everyone could.  And it's always been like that.  There's never been a "do it all" vehicle that appeals to enthusiasts.

[Black Hatch]

As I said, not EVERYONE can afford to keep a second vehicle (be it space or price).
The fear I am saying is that each household being restricted to ONE vehicle... and it may as well be a Corolla.
Could you live with that?

No, but almost everyone could.  And it's always been like that.  There's never been a "do it all" vehicle that appeals to enthusiasts.

Everyone could?
Cost of the vehicle, Insurance, space, not everyone has a double-attached garage and not everyone makes $100k household income.

There's never a "do it all" vehicle, but there are compromises vehicles.
Like the Subaru STi.  Perfect family sedan (for enthusiasts) ?
 
I think I am thankful that I had the RX-8 when I did, I may not see another chance to get another RWD manual sports car.

[johngenx]

No, most people could live with a Corolla as their only car. Enthusiasts are a small percentage of the market.

[johngenx]

And I disagree that RWD manual offerings are rare. Lots of awesome choices. Just not in "family" offerings. And there really haven't been many, so the idea that the "enthusiast do it all RWD manual car" is dying is false. They've always been rare. And sold in very small numbers.

[Ex-airbalancer]

I could not live with a Mazda 3 , too small and cramp if I had only 1 car
I would not pick a Mazda 3 if I was allowed 2 cars 

[Fobroader]

As I said, not EVERYONE can afford to keep a second vehicle (be it space or price).
The fear I am saying is that each household being restricted to ONE vehicle... and it may as well be a Corolla.
Could you live with that?

No, but almost everyone could.  And it's always been like that.  There's never been a "do it all" vehicle that appeals to enthusiasts.

Everyone could?
Cost of the vehicle, Insurance, space, not everyone has a double-attached garage and not everyone makes $100k household income.

There's never a "do it all" vehicle, but there are compromises vehicles.
Like the Subaru STi.  Perfect family sedan (for enthusiasts) ?
 
I think I am thankful that I had the RX-8 when I did, I may not see another chance to get another RWD manual sports car.

All of the people we know have a minimum of 2 cars per household and have at least a double garage.  While you Toronto types might be happy living in a 300sq ft apartment on the 44th floor.....the ROC lives in houses.

Sent from my Galaxy S3

[tpl]

As I said, not EVERYONE can afford to keep a second vehicle (be it space or price).
The fear I am saying is that each household being restricted to ONE vehicle... and it may as well be a Corolla.
Could you live with that?

No, but almost everyone could.  And it's always been like that.  There's never been a "do it all" vehicle that appeals to enthusiasts.

Everyone could?
Cost of the vehicle, Insurance, space, not everyone has a double-attached garage and not everyone makes $100k household income.

There's never a "do it all" vehicle, but there are compromises vehicles.
Like the Subaru STi.  Perfect family sedan (for enthusiasts) ?
 
I think I am thankful that I had the RX-8 when I did, I may not see another chance to get another RWD manual sports car.

All of the people we know have a minimum of 2 cars per household and have at least a double garage.  While you Toronto types might be happy living in a 300sq ft apartment on the 44th floor.....the ROC lives in houses.

Sent from my Galaxy S3

We have two cars ( but both just 4 cyl hatchbacks) and a small single garage  attached to a house.   Everyone we know has two cars. Including a single person. One couple has 4 cars, one fancy coupe, one winter AWD and two sports cars.

We could live with just the Fit...but why should we.  Somebody has to help use all the resources before the greenies and the back to the stone age people take over.

[Ex-airbalancer]

As I said, not EVERYONE can afford to keep a second vehicle (be it space or price).
The fear I am saying is that each household being restricted to ONE vehicle... and it may as well be a Corolla.
Could you live with that?

No, but almost everyone could.  And it's always been like that.  There's never been a "do it all" vehicle that appeals to enthusiasts.

Everyone could?
Cost of the vehicle, Insurance, space, not everyone has a double-attached garage and not everyone makes $100k household income.

There's never a "do it all" vehicle, but there are compromises vehicles.
Like the Subaru STi.  Perfect family sedan (for enthusiasts) ?
 
I think I am thankful that I had the RX-8 when I did, I may not see another chance to get another RWD manual sports car.

All of the people we know have a minimum of 2 cars per household and have at least a double garage.  While you Toronto types might be happy living in a 300sq ft apartment on the 44th floor.....the ROC lives in houses.

Sent from my Galaxy S3

A lot of places no garages, in Thunder Bay I would say almost 1/2 the places have no garages or did when I lived there
I have no garage , it would be nice , but I can live without one

[Ice]

As I said, not EVERYONE can afford to keep a second vehicle (be it space or price).
The fear I am saying is that each household being restricted to ONE vehicle... and it may as well be a Corolla.
Could you live with that?

No, but almost everyone could.  And it's always been like that.  There's never been a "do it all" vehicle that appeals to enthusiasts.

Everyone could?
Cost of the vehicle, Insurance, space, not everyone has a double-attached garage and not everyone makes $100k household income.

There's never a "do it all" vehicle, but there are compromises vehicles.
Like the Subaru STi.  Perfect family sedan (for enthusiasts) ?
 
I think I am thankful that I had the RX-8 when I did, I may not see another chance to get another RWD manual sports car.

All of the people we know have a minimum of 2 cars per household and have at least a double garage.  While you Toronto types might be happy living in a 300sq ft apartment on the 44th floor.....the ROC lives in houses.

Sent from my Galaxy S3

We have two cars ( but both just 4 cyl hatchbacks) and a small single garage  attached to a house.   Everyone we know has two cars. Including a single person. One couple has 4 cars, one fancy coupe, one winter AWD and two sports cars.

We could live with just the Fit...but why should we.  Somebody has to help use all the resources before the greenies and the back to the stone age people take over.

Why does a single person have two cars? The only scenario I can see is that one is a commuter and one is for track day... (IMHO the Corolla makes the perfect commuter car).

Don't fear the "greenies"... fear actually running out of the stuff that makes the modern western world go round. Better hope we innovate our way out of the corner we have ourselves backed into right now.

[tpl]

As I said, not EVERYONE can afford to keep a second vehicle (be it space or price).
The fear I am saying is that each household being restricted to ONE vehicle... and it may as well be a Corolla.
Could you live with that?

No, but almost everyone could.  And it's always been like that.  There's never been a "do it all" vehicle that appeals to enthusiasts.

Everyone could?
Cost of the vehicle, Insurance, space, not everyone has a double-attached garage and not everyone makes $100k household income.

There's never a "do it all" vehicle, but there are compromises vehicles.
Like the Subaru STi.  Perfect family sedan (for enthusiasts) ?
 
I think I am thankful that I had the RX-8 when I did, I may not see another chance to get another RWD manual sports car.

All of the people we know have a minimum of 2 cars per household and have at least a double garage.  While you Toronto types might be happy living in a 300sq ft apartment on the 44th floor.....the ROC lives in houses.

Sent from my Galaxy S3

We have two cars ( but both just 4 cyl hatchbacks) and a small single garage  attached to a house.   Everyone we know has two cars. Including a single person. One couple has 4 cars, one fancy coupe, one winter AWD and two sports cars.

We could live with just the Fit...but why should we.  Somebody has to help use all the resources before the greenies and the back to the stone age people take over.

Why does a single person have two cars? The only scenario I can see is that one is a commuter and one is for track day... (IMHO the Corolla makes the perfect commuter car).

Don't fear the "greenies"... fear actually running out of the stuff that makes the modern western world go round. Better hope we innovate our way out of the corner we have ourselves backed into right now.

That person keeps horses and donkeys so one "car" is an enormous pickup for getting hay and pulling a trailer thingy sometimes. The other is a small efficient hatchback.

We won't run out of any resources in the remainder  of my lifetime...but there are a gang of people who want us to stop using them...or if you prefer, want us to have a low energy lifestyle in the western world and travel on buses and not fly when we wish...you know who I mean...people who hold climate conferences in Bali.  The higher purpose people who are absolutely sure that they know best. The people who  flit off the the USA for instant medical care while the rest queue for example.

[Ice]

As I said, not EVERYONE can afford to keep a second vehicle (be it space or price).
The fear I am saying is that each household being restricted to ONE vehicle... and it may as well be a Corolla.
Could you live with that?

No, but almost everyone could.  And it's always been like that.  There's never been a "do it all" vehicle that appeals to enthusiasts.

Everyone could?
Cost of the vehicle, Insurance, space, not everyone has a double-attached garage and not everyone makes $100k household income.

There's never a "do it all" vehicle, but there are compromises vehicles.
Like the Subaru STi.  Perfect family sedan (for enthusiasts) ?
 
I think I am thankful that I had the RX-8 when I did, I may not see another chance to get another RWD manual sports car.

All of the people we know have a minimum of 2 cars per household and have at least a double garage.  While you Toronto types might be happy living in a 300sq ft apartment on the 44th floor.....the ROC lives in houses.

Sent from my Galaxy S3

We have two cars ( but both just 4 cyl hatchbacks) and a small single garage  attached to a house.   Everyone we know has two cars. Including a single person. One couple has 4 cars, one fancy coupe, one winter AWD and two sports cars.

We could live with just the Fit...but why should we.  Somebody has to help use all the resources before the greenies and the back to the stone age people take over.

Why does a single person have two cars? The only scenario I can see is that one is a commuter and one is for track day... (IMHO the Corolla makes the perfect commuter car).

Don't fear the "greenies"... fear actually running out of the stuff that makes the modern western world go round. Better hope we innovate our way out of the corner we have ourselves backed into right now.

That person keeps horses and donkeys so one "car" is an enormous pickup for getting hay and pulling a trailer thingy sometimes. The other is a small efficient hatchback.

We won't run out of any resources in the remainder  of my lifetime...but there are a gang of people who want us to stop using them...or if you prefer, want us to have a low energy lifestyle in the western world and travel on buses and not fly when we wish...you know who I mean...people who hold climate conferences in Bali.  The higher purpose people who are absolutely sure that they know best. The people who  flit off the the USA for instant medical care while the rest queue for example.

Those two cars do make perfect sense in that case.

No, I'm not sure who those people are. Not real environmentalists anyways. Sounds more like corporate types and politicians. Maybe they can fly away for their conference and stay there for all of the good they are doing.

One thing is for sure... either we're going to need to dream up some new ways to continue our lifestyle or eventually it will be taken away from us due to scarcity. Maybe not in your lifetime but legacy is important...

[tpl]

Anyway, we should agree that the  Corolla is a good car for Everyman ( I do not mean every man, I mean http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everyman) with a normal sized family, reliable and well priced.    I wouldn't buy one for myself but I have no hesitation in recommending one.

[Fobroader]

Anyway, we should agree that the  Corolla is a good car for Everyman ( I do not mean every man, I mean http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everyman) with a normal sized family, reliable and well priced.    I wouldn't buy one for myself but I have no hesitation in recommending one.

I'm in that boat with you, I'd never own one but would highly recommend them to anyone.

Sent from my Galaxy S3