Topic: Comparison Test: 2014 Chevrolet Impala LTZ vs 2013 Toyota Avalon Limited

[DriverJeff]

What a shock. Good old Asian Driver strikes again. More below after the requisite shot:

The more things change, the more they stay the same:

" At first glance the Impala looks fairly fetching with its leather seats and soft-touch materials throughout. Closer inspection reveals some strange and alarming discoveries. Contrasting stitching from the seat leather is a common contemporary touch, but when two adjacent surfaces feature different colours of stitching as seen in the Impala’s armrest versus seat, it simply looks like cost cutting or carelessness on the designer’s part.

Panel fitment in the Impala’s interior was a bit of a concern on our test car. The dashboard aligns a centimeter or two higher where it meets the driver’s door, but the same measure lower where it meets the passenger door."

Total BS. The photos certainly do not support the conclusion of a"a centimeter or two" difference. Exaggerate much? The contrast stitching is on the seats only, not everywhere. It's SUPPOSED to be that way. The stitching on the dash, the door panels, etc, is not a contrasting color either. You don't care for the look? Fine. But don't call it "careless" or "cost-cutting". Blue thread costs the same as tan thread. Personally I think the Avalon's gaping maw looks like a large-mouth bass and the dashboard looks like the designer took a few tabs of LSD while drawing it. But that is personal taste, just like the Imp's seat stitching.

I know it would kill this publication to give a GM car a good review but geez Louise, get a grip.

While it is true I didn't get out precision instruments to measure the dash, it was immediately noticeable to the eye that they were out of alignment.  I was actually tipped off to look at this because I had just read in one of the US car mags that they noticed the same thing.  A one-off pre-production flaw?  Doesn't look like it (and my tester was a full, current production model, by the way).

What evidently wasn't clear to you was just how close this comparison was.  I was very much on the fence for quite a while and it wasn't until I actually wrote the review and looked over all my notes that I finally came to the conclusion that the Avalon was a slightly better choice in this comparison.  The new Impala really is a great car.  It's massive, well-equipped, handsome and the drivetrain is really good.  Don't agree with me?  No problem, if you plunk down your cash on a new Impala LTZ I won't think you're nuts -- it really is a great machine, but 3 out of 4 of the folks who drove it in our comparison preferred the Avalon.

I have no automatic predisposition against any car or brand.  I love the ATS.  The new Vette is a stunning bargain for its performance capabilities.  I drive cars as they're assigned and if they have flaws, I'll write about it.  If they blow my mind for being great or awful, I'll write about that too.   

[Jaeger]

^^^ Jeff - a more than rational response to a less than rational criticism.  You have to understand that our Greg (Oldsguy) sees the world through very darkly-tinted GM shades.  Any criticism of the brand or products is necessarily a function of bias, because brand and products are perfect, and by definition superior to anything else on the road.  Failing to embrace that truth brands you as a member of the anti-GM conspiracy.

[Oldsguy]

Don't be ridiculous. Two cm is almost a full inch. The photos show no evidence of that large an issue. The criticism of the stitching was just silly. The overall tone was typical of far too many autos.ca articles, damning GM products while giving certain other makes a free pass regardless of their shortcomings. Some GM products, like the current Malibu, deserve all the criticism they attract. This one just sounds like more the usual gratuitous cheap shots.

[rrocket]

Don't be ridiculous. Two cm is almost a full inch. The photos show no evidence of that large an issue. The criticism of the stitching was just silly. The overall tone was typical of far too many autos.ca articles, damning GM products while giving certain other makes a free pass regardless of their shortcomings. Some GM products, like the current Malibu, deserve all the criticism they attract. This one just sounds like more the usual gratuitous cheap shots.

As I said earlier...2cm or 2mm.  Either way...this was a significant mis-fit or panels (as pointed out by mainstream magazines, too).  The Toyota had flawless fit.

The GM had some quality issues with fitment.

So you readily accept that GM had poor quality in this regards...you're just upset with the stated size of the poor fit?

[Oldsguy]

So you readily accept that GM had poor quality in this regards...you're just upset with the stated size of the poor fit?

I accept nothing. The photos did not indicate any issue. Given that reporting, and the long history of biased reviews on this site, how do we know the Toyota did not also have issues they didn't bother to report?

[rrocket]

So you readily accept that GM had poor quality in this regards...you're just upset with the stated size of the poor fit?

I accept nothing. The photos did not indicate any issue. Given that reporting, and the long history of biased reviews on this site, how do we know the Toyota did not also have issues they didn't bother to report?

I can clearly see the mis-match in the photo.  It isn't 2cm...but it's quite visible.

That's OK...keep your head in the sand.

[Jaeger]

^^^ Not cool to use his Facebook profile pic without permission. 

[Bubba]

I think you should add the Hyundai Genesis to the list of competitors.

Good idea. I rented a V8 one in Arizona for a week, drove the crap out of it (on freaking perfect roads) and quite liked it. Now that you've mentioned it I'd prefer the Genesis to either of these for its V8, rear wheel drive and ok delivery of features/comfort/luxury. It just needs to find some more style. My rental:

I wonder if you and I rented the same car.  I had a silver Genesis last year for week in AZ.

[Oldsguy]

It isn't 2cm...but it's quite visible.

So using your same argument... you accept mis-reporting by the author/site, but that is OK because it's a GM product?

[rrocket]

It isn't 2cm...but it's quite visible.

So using your same argument... you accept mis-reporting by the author/site, but that is OK because it's a GM product?

Certainly not.  I work in skilled trades, so my measurement skills reign supreme.  A journo?  Probably not so much.

Either way...there is a mis-match, it's clearly visible.  Any ding-dong can see it's not 2 cm.  3-4mm likely.   If you can't see it in the photo, then you're in denial.  It's visible.

They SHOULD change the quote mis-match size in the article....because they're WRONG.

[PJ]

It doesn't matter.  GM has alway been known for poor assembly quality and this shows nothing has changed. Their cars have their good points but if someone can see at a glance that's it wrong then it should have never left the factory. 

[stargazer68]

Lots of comments about the better looks of the Impala.  It is certainly a much better-appearing package than GM has offered for a number of years.  But beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and when you are driving down a street or road, you are not the beholder.  You are showing off your taste (or lack thereof) to your friends, neighbours and co-workers.  As rewarding to the ego as this may be, the reward may be hard to quantify, as most people aren't going to wave and point to acknowledge your wise choice.  Don't get me wrong, I love a good-looking womxxx car as much as anyone, but if I buy and drive one, I can't see its fender curves, the swoop of the headlight bezels, the gleam of the signal lights, the arch of the side windows from the driver's seat.  As nice as it looks at the curb or in the driveway, what makes me continue to love any car is the way it treats me, in terms of how well it is assembled, how well its parts stand up, and how much respect it offers in terms of fuel economy expectations.
I recall reading about the new cars in the 1950s, and one of the features of the new-car comparisons was the number of faults new owners reported to the mags.  The writers compiled the figures and averaged them out, in overall totals and by section of the car.  It wasn't unusual to see reports of several dozen faults on a single car, and some makes averaged 30 or 40 defects!  Misaligned body and interior parts were common, as were fasteners left loose, or at least not torqued to specification, found on almost every area of the cars.  Apparently, buyers put up with shoddy assembly, because they had no choice.  Today, competitive forces have raised our expectations, and they are met in the majority of cases; finding egregious assembly errors (a kind definition of probable carelessness or even maliciousness) in a new car today is surprising, and does not bode well for a manufacturer who does not quickly correct the situation.  Failing to do this recently caused major trmors in the North American auto landscape, and it can and likely will happen again.

[stargazer68]

I failed to note the poster of the YTD sales figures of these cars and their competitors in the U.S., but the numbers reveal many things.
The Avalon was never a presence in Canada or the U.S., and the 2013 model was introduced with a campaign intended to correct that.  From the figures posted, it appears Toyota has achieved its goal - although they would not consider it a goal, but merely a milestone: the market share, as well as the total sales figure, has grown considerably.  Some competitors, notably Nissan Maxima, dropped significantly in sales.
Although the Impala sold the most vehicles in the segment, several models are closing the gap. 
i wonder if Chevrolet is again falling back on its fleet sales to bolster totals.

[Oldsguy]

i wonder if Chevrolet is again falling back on its fleet sales to bolster totals.

Actually several Asian makes, Toyota most prominently, are embracing the fleet sale business to maintain market share. Camrys and Corollas are staples of rental fleets these days.

[Frontier1]

I failed to note the poster of the YTD sales figures of these cars and their competitors in the U.S., but the numbers reveal many things.
The Avalon was never a presence in Canada or the U.S., and the 2013 model was introduced with a campaign intended to correct that.  From the figures posted, it appears Toyota has achieved its goal - although they would not consider it a goal, but merely a milestone: the market share, as well as the total sales figure, has grown considerably.  Some competitors, notably Nissan Maxima, dropped significantly in sales.
Although the Impala sold the most vehicles in the segment, several models are closing the gap. 
i wonder if Chevrolet is again falling back on its fleet sales to bolster totals.

In 2013, 23% of Corolla sales were fleet.

[PJ]

I failed to note the poster of the YTD sales figures of these cars and their competitors in the U.S., but the numbers reveal many things.
The Avalon was never a presence in Canada or the U.S., and the 2013 model was introduced with a campaign intended to correct that.  From the figures posted, it appears Toyota has achieved its goal - although they would not consider it a goal, but merely a milestone: the market share, as well as the total sales figure, has grown considerably.  Some competitors, notably Nissan Maxima, dropped significantly in sales.
Although the Impala sold the most vehicles in the segment, several models are closing the gap. 
i wonder if Chevrolet is again falling back on its fleet sales to bolster totals.

In 2013, 23% of Corolla sales were fleet.

Wonder what percentage of Impalas went to fleets?

[rrocket]

i wonder if Chevrolet is again falling back on its fleet sales to bolster totals.

Actually several Asian makes, Toyota most prominently, are embracing the fleet sale business to maintain market share. Camrys and Corollas are staples of rental fleets these days.

Again...full of crap with zero facts to support your argument.  GM near top...Toyota near bottom in fleet sales (as usual).  Year to year, Toyota fleet sales are up a mere 1% of total sales YTD.   

Here's the fleet sales for the last full month stats were available:

                            July 2013 fleet sales   July 2013 % fleet

Ford Motor           42,700                          22%
General Motors   45,000                          19%
Hyundai-Kia            16,800                          15%
Nissan N.A.             13,300                          12%
Chrysler Group             14,400                          10%
Toyota Motor               8,800                            5%
American Honda       2,800                            2%

[Sir Osis of Liver]

Fleet sales are down for the big three and up for the Asians.

Fleet sales will always be higher for domestics because when Joe's Plumbing wants to replace their Econolines, they're not going to be picking up Civics.

[rrocket]

Fleet sales will always be higher for domestics because when Joe's Plumbing wants to replace their Econolines, they're not going to be picking up Civics.

Like I said...5% this month 2013 vs. 4% 2012 on total monthly sales.  Even though GM has gone down as a total % vs. last year, they are still #2 for fleet sales for the month.  It's not even close to what Toyota has done.  And like every year, they will be higher than every Japanese company.  Period.


Yea...that's the only reason the domestics fleet sales are higher...   Joe's plumbing generally doesn't buy thousands of vehicles per year like rental companies.

I know off the top of my head that Fusion fleet sales and the old Impala were both higher than Camry fleet sales...and I'm pretty sure Joe's plumbing isn't doing the buying.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

The current Fusion is supply constrained, but the average transaction price is running about $2300 more than the Camry is currently getting.

http://www.autoblog.com/2013/08/26/ford-fusion-production-increasing-challenge-toyota-camry/

Also:

Fleet orders account for about 25% of the new Fusion’s deliveries. However, most are to government and commercial agencies that are more profitable, rather than daily rental companies. “The 25% is in line with the last generation, but it fluctuates a little,” she says

http://wardsauto.com/sales-amp-marketing/all-new-13-ford-fusion-attracting-younger-tech-savvy-buyers