Topic: Comparison Test: 2014 Chevrolet Impala LTZ vs 2013 Toyota Avalon Limited

[Noto]

...But on the note of renting, I can pick up an Avalon, Camry, Corolla, 14 Rav at Thriftys 10 minute drive from here.  WTF is with that?  In the other direction as I pull into Cornwall, ditto, at Nationals.

Rental costs make up very little of the revenue the corporations see: it's buying fleets at discounted prices and subsequently reselling them as used cars for around the same money or even for a profit.

Enterprise in Windsor, for example, switched their fleet to 75% minivans - Dodge Caravans - because they got them at $15k even and after 1.5 yrs and 30,000km, they were sold for $17k (and then there's the $65.99/day rental fees).

So if you're wondering why you're seeing more and more imports in the rental lots?  Better resale value.


As far as the Genesis goes - my biggest draw away from buying one - can't imagine spending upwards of $40-50k on a Hyundai.  The brand just isn't there for me yet.  If I'm buying cheap, then I want something reliable and with strong resale value (hence the Corolla).  If I'm buying something a bit pricier, then I'll buy it used and in the US at a steep discount and enjoy its reliability (hence the RX400h - almost 8 years strong and not a single issue).

RWD and V8 sound lovely...but for Canadian winters, Canadian gas prices, and the fact that I just don't trust Hyundai with $55,388.70 +++.

Hyundai promised big-time quality control back with the first big re-do of the Sonata...and then we find:
http://www.latimes.com/business/autos/la-fi-hy-hyundai-sonata-santafe-recall-20130819,0,1557888.story

No car is perfect, but Toyota/Lexus has consistently topped the reliability charts and that's where my money went.  When I lease, reliability means a little less...but Subaru won my heart with that beautiful 2.5 XT engine.

[aquadorhj]

I just saw the new Avalon this morning.

it looked pretty sleek in the flesh.

I would go with Avalon.   Sir Osis, i think the Genesis is miles better than 300 inside and out.  i just cannot deal with how cheap it is inside the 300.  is Genesis overwhelmingly better?  no.  it's still got some way to go before it reaches the level of A6 or Jag, per se, but still it's way better than 300.

I can't figure out why 300 feel so cheap when Grand Cherokee feel like it;s worth at least 50k inside.

[sailor723]

"I can't figure out why 300 feel so cheap when Grand Cherokee feel like it;s worth at least 50k inside."

Good question. I wonder how much Jeep is run as a separate entity inside Chrysler?  (Their own designers, product planners,etc etc)

[Sir Osis of Liver]

I just saw the new Avalon this morning.

it looked pretty sleek in the flesh.

I would go with Avalon.   Sir Osis, i think the Genesis is miles better than 300 inside and out.  i just cannot deal with how cheap it is inside the 300.  is Genesis overwhelmingly better?  no.  it's still got some way to go before it reaches the level of A6 or Jag, per se, but still it's way better than 300.

I can't figure out why 300 feel so cheap when Grand Cherokee feel like it;s worth at least 50k inside.

I don't know if you've been in a new Charger or 300, but they are at least on par with the Genesis I was in, if not better.

As far as rentals, NoTo you've explained the reason rental companies may be switching to imports, but what's the incentive for the import companies to sell to fleets? High levels of fleet sales can negatively impact resale, so traditionally the Japanes brands have avoided them. Honda still does, but Toyota and Nissan fleet sales have increased. Not a big deal in the short term, but if they fall into the habit of using fleet sales to blow out unsold inventory they can kiss high residuals goodbye.

[ChaosphereIX]

I just saw the new Avalon this morning.

it looked pretty sleek in the flesh.

I would go with Avalon.   Sir Osis, i think the Genesis is miles better than 300 inside and out.  i just cannot deal with how cheap it is inside the 300.  is Genesis overwhelmingly better?  no.  it's still got some way to go before it reaches the level of A6 or Jag, per se, but still it's way better than 300.

I can't figure out why 300 feel so cheap when Grand Cherokee feel like it;s worth at least 50k inside.

I don't know if you've been in a new Charger or 300, but they are at least on par with the Genesis I was in, if not better.

As far as rentals, NoTo you've explained the reason rental companies may be switching to imports, but what's the incentive for the import companies to sell to fleets? High levels of fleet sales can negatively impact resale, so traditionally the Japanes brands have avoided them. Honda still does, but Toyota and Nissan fleet sales have increased. Not a big deal in the short term, but if they fall into the habit of using fleet sales to blow out unsold inventory they can kiss high residuals goodbye.

how much is "#1 selling XXX in Canada" worth to these companies? I figure a few residual points might be sacraficed in the name of advertising chest thumping. It is always a game...

[Sir Osis of Liver]

how much is "#1 selling XXX in Canada" worth to these companies? I figure a few residual points might be sacraficed in the name of advertising chest thumping. It is always a game...

It's an easy message to convey, so it's probably worth a fair bit. Honda had really cheap rates on the Civic to keep it as the "#1 seller in Canada for 14 years" towards the end of the year last year. From the looks of things, they are ramping up again as they are neck and neck with the Elantra after lagging it for much of the year.

[Noto]

I can't figure out why 300 feel so cheap when Grand Cherokee feel like it;s worth at least 50k inside.

Jeep doesn't hide it.  Their recent slogan: "2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee: The Best of What We're Made Of "

As far as rentals, NoTo you've explained the reason rental companies may be switching to imports, but what's the incentive for the import companies to sell to fleets? High levels of fleet sales can negatively impact resale, so traditionally the Japanes brands have avoided them. Honda still does, but Toyota and Nissan fleet sales have increased. Not a big deal in the short term, but if they fall into the habit of using fleet sales to blow out unsold inventory they can kiss high residuals goodbye.

I agree.  It wasn't my decision to sell to fleets    ...but from the rental agencies' perspectives, imports are better for business (until their actions destroy that benefit).

You really want to go down the road of recalls? really?

Yeah.  I do.  Bring it on.

[SaskSpecV]

You forget....most of us who love RWD V8 cars are the minority.

Even on this forum, there aren't many of us who own V8, RWD sedans.

I own one.  Anybody else?

Does a V8, RWD truck count?
Too bad the powertrain of that beast is so out of date...

Impala and Avalon both look like nice efforts.  But quite honestly, I think FWD full-size sedans are the new mid-size trucks - the players in the volume market (mid-size sedans/full size trucks) have gotten so good, and pricing is so competitive, that it's crowding out the other niches.

[ChaosphereIX]

You forget....most of us who love RWD V8 cars are the minority.

Even on this forum, there aren't many of us who own V8, RWD sedans.

I own one.  Anybody else?

Does a V8, RWD truck count?
Too bad the powertrain of that beast is so out of date...

Impala and Avalon both look like nice efforts.  But quite honestly, I think FWD full-size sedans are the new mid-size trucks - the players in the volume market (mid-size sedans/full size trucks) have gotten so good, and pricing is so competitive, that it's crowding out the other niches.

true - I had a customer who just bought a brand new Accord, and looked at our Impala and said "Why get this when mine is just as big, in most respects." I could have debated numbers, etc. but he had a point. Do we remember the size of the first Accord etc.? My Alfa is from '97, is a midsize sports sedan technically, and is only fractionally larger than a Cruze or a Jetta. Everything is getting bigger, so the full size sedans have less room to grow to be truly marked as having lots of more room than a midsize these days.

[Frontier1]

I can't figure out why 300 feel so cheap when Grand Cherokee feel like it;s worth at least 50k inside.

Jeep doesn't hide it.  Their recent slogan: "2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee: The Best of What We're Made Of "

As far as rentals, NoTo you've explained the reason rental companies may be switching to imports, but what's the incentive for the import companies to sell to fleets? High levels of fleet sales can negatively impact resale, so traditionally the Japanes brands have avoided them. Honda still does, but Toyota and Nissan fleet sales have increased. Not a big deal in the short term, but if they fall into the habit of using fleet sales to blow out unsold inventory they can kiss high residuals goodbye.

I agree.  It wasn't my decision to sell to fleets    ...but from the rental agencies' perspectives, imports are better for business (until their actions destroy that benefit).

You really want to go down the road of recalls? really?

Yeah.  I do.  Bring it on.

For starters Hyundai is not in the top 5 for 2012.  Any Hyundai could hold a spot in my driveway today(a Santa Fe ), something I would not have said 10 years ago.

[Fobroader]

"I can't figure out why 300 feel so cheap when Grand Cherokee feel like it;s worth at least 50k inside."

Good question. I wonder how much Jeep is run as a separate entity inside Chrysler?  (Their own designers, product planners,etc etc)

Our friend has a 2012 GC and its a great car to drive and the interior is top notch.....by far the best that Chry.Co. can do by a country mile.

[ChaosphereIX]

"I can't figure out why 300 feel so cheap when Grand Cherokee feel like it;s worth at least 50k inside."

Good question. I wonder how much Jeep is run as a separate entity inside Chrysler?  (Their own designers, product planners,etc etc)

Our friend has a 2012 GC and its a great car to drive and the interior is top notch.....by far the best that Chry.Co. can do by a country mile.

I dunno, I loved the Sebring interior when I rented one...

[Fobroader]

"I can't figure out why 300 feel so cheap when Grand Cherokee feel like it;s worth at least 50k inside."

Good question. I wonder how much Jeep is run as a separate entity inside Chrysler?  (Their own designers, product planners,etc etc)

Our friend has a 2012 GC and its a great car to drive and the interior is top notch.....by far the best that Chry.Co. can do by a country mile.

I dunno, I loved the Sebring interior when I rented one...

Uh huh..... 

[Frontier1]

"I can't figure out why 300 feel so cheap when Grand Cherokee feel like it;s worth at least 50k inside."

Good question. I wonder how much Jeep is run as a separate entity inside Chrysler?  (Their own designers, product planners,etc etc)

Our friend has a 2012 GC and its a great car to drive and the interior is top notch.....by far the best that Chry.Co. can do by a country mile.

I dunno, I loved the Sebring interior when I rented one...

LOL.......oh boy!!

Personally I find nothing wrong with it.

[TerryB]

I'd stick with the Taurus SEL  awd or SHO in this class.

The only Genesis I was in, had the 6. It was disappointing, the interior was just ok, and there was a surprising amount of road noise.  The handling was not well sorted.

Given the fairly consistent positive reviews I was surprised. Maybe my expectations were too high, but I'd prefer the Charger or 300 if I really wanted to stick with rwd.

Sent from my G3 using Tapatalk 4

The was probably before the 2012 were released.  The ride is much improved, added 8 speed auto and the power and torque are up to 333hp and 291 lb/ft

[sacrat]

So I think the early Genesis like the one I rented only had the V8 and that it was similar/same to the R Spec stove. Can't quite swear to it though. I'll say again that the one we rented pulled very well on those smooth Arizona freeways. No sport sedan but a nice cruiser sedan that wasn't dead either.

No.  The early Genesis V8 had a 4.6 and 375 HP.

The "new" one has a 5.0 and 429 HP.

In Canada 5.0 R spec is the only V8 model. In the US both 4.6 and 5.0 are available unless things changed recently. Of course 3.8 V6 is still available...

[sacrat]

...most of us who love RWD V8 cars are the minority.
Even on this forum, there aren't many of us who own V8, RWD sedans.
I own one.  Anybody else?

My 21 year old son just bought a 2009 Genesis Sedan (3.8 Tech).He would have considered the "8" if there had been one available in his price range. How's that for buying outside the demographic? The Genesis Coupe I could see...

Come to think of it, it may be time to raise his room and board...

Also rrocket, they may need a new title beyond "Car Crazy" now that you are about to surpass 25,000 posts  . Perhaps "Too much free time"    Congratulations...

[KD]

Comparing these two vehicles is like comparing warm milk toast to cottled eggs!  Just think of the fun you could have with this money on the used car market.  As for the Chrysler 300/Charger....just be prepared for some front end work each time you take it for an oil change.  I work with a guy (in his mid-thirties) who just traded in his 2010 for that reason.

[KD]

The important thing to take from this thread is most of us would take the Genesis over this.

You hear that GM and Toyota?

Time to bring back the G8 and time to make an Aristo for our market.

You forget....most of us who love RWD V8 cars are the minority.

Even on this forum, there aren't many of us who own V8, RWD sedans.

I own one.  Anybody else?

I trade mine in 2009.  Drove great in summer, but road conditions are not good for RWD daily driver in winter....my knuckles were as white as the snow on many occaisions.  My next sportscar will be RWD though....if i ever get around to buying one!

[rrocket]

The important thing to take from this thread is most of us would take the Genesis over this.

You hear that GM and Toyota?

Time to bring back the G8 and time to make an Aristo for our market.

You forget....most of us who love RWD V8 cars are the minority.

Even on this forum, there aren't many of us who own V8, RWD sedans.

I own one.  Anybody else?

I trade mine in 2009.  Drove great in summer, but road conditions are not good for RWD daily driver in winter....my knuckles were as white as the snow on many occaisions.  My next sportscar will be RWD though....if i ever get around to buying one!

Been driving V8 RWD cars in winter since I learned to drive. No biggie...