Topic: Test Drive: 2013 Toyota Camry Hybrid XLE

[Autos_Editor]

The Camry has earned its reputation as a safe, dependable (albeit boring) choice. The Camry hybrid adds great mileage to that list.

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[JohnM]

Obviously a fairly brilliant package for the conventional car buyer.   I'm not completely sure why the Camry Hybrid gets so much higher fuel consumption numbers than the Prius but I suppose it is the higher HP.  For trunk lovers it would be the only choice but once you've had a car with a hatch, how many people go back to a trunk?  Are golf clubs the only things you carry?

So if you are in the market for some kind of green machine, the choice is pretty rich right now in the $30k area.

My top three would be as follows:

- plugin Prius - probably nets out at $28k with Ontario rebate and gets well under 3.5L/100km.   Maybe close to Volt with all short distance driving.
- Camry - Sonata - Fusion / Hybrid around $30k and under 6L.
- Leaf stripper - unbeatable for distances under 100km and maybe close to $24k with Ontario rebate.  If I were in the market this would be irresistable.  I'd have to rent a long range vehicle every 6 weeks or so but still the way to go for green keener.
- Smart EV - Maybe $19k after the rebate.  Killer urban commuter solution.
- Mitsubishi Mi Ev - now the same price range as the base Leaf.  Very tough competition.

A selection of great cars which will only get better and cheaper.

Cheers,
John M.

[redman]

Nice overview above John.

I don't see the value in the Camry Hybrid considering diesels and fully electric hybrids could be had for less. If I did a lot of distance to cover it would be a diesel for me and if mostly short haul city I'd be looking at a fully electric. Hybrids are becoming a wash for me only doubling complexity with now little fuel savings coupled with higher vehicle purchase.

[JRM]

Glad to hear that reliability is so great on this generation (only the second year for it??), because it wasn't anything to write home about on the two previous gens.  I am dissapointed with the styling of the newest Camry, especially the SE.  I much preferred the styling of the previous gen.  As for the interior, it looks as if the center stack and console cover that houses the gearshift and cup holders are a bolted add on, looking rather tacky, clunky and oversized taking away from an otherwise nice interior.     

The Mazda6 with the skyactive treatment, a far less complex drivetrain, would be my preference.  It has a much more engaging drive without suffering too much of a fuel consumption penalty.

[mixmanmash]

Glad to hear that reliability is so great on this generation (only the second year for it??), because it wasn't anything to write home about on the two previous gens.  I am dissapointed with the styling of the newest Camry, especially the SE.  I much preferred the styling of the previous gen.  As for the interior, it looks as if the center stack and console cover that houses the gearshift and cup holders are a bolted add on, looking rather tacky, clunky and oversized taking away from an otherwise nice interior.     

The Mazda6 with the skyactive treatment, a far less complex drivetrain, would be my preference.  It has a much more engaging drive without suffering too much of a fuel consumption penalty.

Agreed on the Mazda6, but I would also have to consider the new Accord.

Do you have any data that makes you say the previous 2 gen Camry's reliability had suffered?  I'm curious to know what issues they had as people always remark that Toyota products are "reliable" and "bulletproof."

[JRM]

Agreed on the Mazda6, but I would also have to consider the new Accord.

Do you have any data that makes you say the previous 2 gen Camry's reliability had suffered?  I'm curious to know what issues they had as people always remark that Toyota products are "reliable" and "bulletproof."

I'll pass on the Accord as I'm not keen on the styling inside or out. 

I had one of each of the two previous gen Camrys.  The '04 was the worst with transmission failure and complete replacement at 4,500 km, oil leaks that couldn't be fixed, water pump failure, loose body parts, eg, rear spolier never fit properly or tight, various rattles, poor paint quality and an instance of sudden accelleration when cruise control inadvertently engaged by itself in city traffic.   Most of these problems are described in "Lemonaid" publications.

I figured it was just an isolated lemon so I got an '08 based on my positive experiences with '83, 88 and 99 models I also had.   Surprise!  More transmission problems, poor fuel consumption, loose body parts, more rattles, failed battery in 1st year, vibrating exhaust replaced twice, rough idle and three safety related recalls.

I should have read Lemonaid before, not after I bought it.  Needless to say I got rid of it after 2.5 years and less than 40,000 kms.   Never again!!

[mixmanmash]

Agreed on the Mazda6, but I would also have to consider the new Accord.

Do you have any data that makes you say the previous 2 gen Camry's reliability had suffered?  I'm curious to know what issues they had as people always remark that Toyota products are "reliable" and "bulletproof."

I'll pass on the Accord as I'm not keen on the styling inside or out. 

I had one of each of the two previous gen Camrys.  The '04 was the worst with transmission failure and complete replacement at 4,500 km, oil leaks that couldn't be fixed, water pump failure, loose body parts, eg, rear spolier never fit properly or tight, various rattles, poor paint quality and an instance of sudden accelleration when cruise control inadvertently engaged by itself in city traffic.   Most of these problems are described in "Lemonaid" publications.

I figured it was just an isolated lemon so I got an '08 based on my positive experiences with '83, 88 and 99 models I also had.   Surprise!  More transmission problems, poor fuel consumption, loose body parts, more rattles, failed battery in 1st year, vibrating exhaust replaced twice, rough idle and three safety related recalls.

I should have read Lemonaid before, not after I bought it.  Needless to say I got rid of it after 2.5 years and less than 40,000 kms.   Never again!!

Wow!  That's pretty bad.  Interesting that lemonaid points these out, yet consumer reports doesn't.  I'm just waiting for the defenders of the Toyota brand chime in, as I am sure they will.

[Frontier1]

I'll jump in here since I know so well how this works, JRM you truly should supply a picture of each of those Camry's you owned, complete with a copy of the ownership documents, bill of sale, work orders etc etc.

[Fobroader]

Agreed on the Mazda6, but I would also have to consider the new Accord.

Do you have any data that makes you say the previous 2 gen Camry's reliability had suffered?  I'm curious to know what issues they had as people always remark that Toyota products are "reliable" and "bulletproof."

I'll pass on the Accord as I'm not keen on the styling inside or out. 

I had one of each of the two previous gen Camrys.  The '04 was the worst with transmission failure and complete replacement at 4,500 km, oil leaks that couldn't be fixed, water pump failure, loose body parts, eg, rear spolier never fit properly or tight, various rattles, poor paint quality and an instance of sudden accelleration when cruise control inadvertently engaged by itself in city traffic.   Most of these problems are described in "Lemonaid" publications.

I figured it was just an isolated lemon so I got an '08 based on my positive experiences with '83, 88 and 99 models I also had.   Surprise!  More transmission problems, poor fuel consumption, loose body parts, more rattles, failed battery in 1st year, vibrating exhaust replaced twice, rough idle and three safety related recalls.

I should have read Lemonaid before, not after I bought it.  Needless to say I got rid of it after 2.5 years and less than 40,000 kms.   Never again!!

How dare thee take Lord Toyotas name in vain....take that back....and look at this swinging watch....you owned a Chrysler Sebring during that time.....you remember it was taken to a Chrysler dealer.....you will remember that Toyota is Alpha and it is Omega....now when I snap my finger you will remember nothing but sunshine, lollipops and rainbows about your Toyota ownership experience 

[X-Traction]

Glad to hear that reliability is so great on this generation (only the second year for it??), because it wasn't anything to write home about on the two previous gens.  I am dissapointed with the styling of the newest Camry, especially the SE.  I much preferred the styling of the previous gen.  As for the interior, it looks as if the center stack and console cover that houses the gearshift and cup holders are a bolted add on, looking rather tacky, clunky and oversized taking away from an otherwise nice interior.     

The Mazda6 with the skyactive treatment, a far less complex drivetrain, would be my preference.  It has a much more engaging drive without suffering too much of a fuel consumption penalty.

People keep saying this about hybrids.  Is the hybrid drivetrain more complex than a standard transmission with clutch, let alone an automatic?  I think I'd rather have a planetary gearset and a couple of electric motors any day rather than a typical automatic.  Are there any reports of CVT's and electric motors failing in hybrids?  How about the track record of normal automatics?

[X-Traction]

From the article: "And you’ll likely never have a problem reselling it to a like-minded person.

When I was shopping for a recent Prius a few months ago, I came across a lot of discussion on hybrid forums about the reasoning for people choosing a Prius over a Camry Hybrid, and vice versa.  It boiled down to a choice between mileage and having a nice highway cruising sedan.

The Prius' better mileage is due to it being smaller and lighter, smaller ICE, and some mileage-enhancing tricks that the Camry Hybrid lacks.

My Prius shopping made it far enough to notice that used Camry Hybrids had lower asking prices than equivalent used Pruis'.  It seemed that no one is interested in buying used Camry Hybrids.  I don't know why, but they certainly weren't in demand.  Unless this changes, original purchasers of Camry Hybrids will continue to take a financial bath at trade-in time.  And on the other hand, used Camry Hybrids are excellent bargains.

Maybe it's due to the almost non-existent badges, but I can't recall ever seeing a Camry Hybrid, or a Corolla Hybrid for that matter.

[Ex-airbalancer]

I have seen a lot Camry Hybrids, I do not believe there is a Corolla hybrid

[X-Traction]

I do not believe there is a Corolla hybrid

  That certainly would explain why I haven't seen one.

[rrocket]

I have seen a lot Camry Hybrids, I do not believe there is a Corolla hybrid

It's coming...allegedly.

They have the Auris hybrid in euro land..

[Wildsau]

We've got quite a number of Camry hybrids in Edmonton.

The hybrid badge on the back makes them easy to spot, and I've always noticed a surprisingly high percentage of them around. I talked to one dealership while I had it for review and they told me they do sell quite a few, not to mention that they sell a ton to taxi fleets.

[Ex-airbalancer]

I have seen a lot Camry Hybrids, I do not believe there is a Corolla hybrid

It's coming...allegedly.

They have the Auris hybrid in euro land..

Who you been talking to , AS,
It is coming like , a diesel in the pick up, Hybrid in Rav & Venza & their van 

[JRM]

I'll jump in here since I know so well how this works, JRM you truly should supply a picture of each of those Camry's you owned, complete with a copy of the ownership documents, bill of sale, work orders etc etc.

I am not exagerating in the least.   I have all the documentation, but I wouldn't bothered submitting it for the sake of some doubting Thomas.  The safety recalls are documentd in many publications, as are the transmission and lurching accelleration problems.  Both cars were SE models and the loose and ill fitting body parts were related to the various body cladding and spoiler add ons.  I see the new SE model doesn't have all the sporty pretention add ons.  Probably had more than a few complaints.

I have no faith in Consumer reports whatsoever.  I bought the Camrys and a terribly unreliable Eagle 2000 GTX based on their glowing reviews.    Lemonaid tells a very different story on both makes.  Take a look when you have a chance.

[ArticSteve]

My Prius shopping made it far enough to notice that used Camry Hybrids had lower asking prices than equivalent used Pruis'.  It seemed that no one is interested in buying used Camry Hybrids.

Not huge consumer demand for the 2011 and down Camry Hybrids mainly because they're not that great.  Certainly would not recommend one.  Although, we never have a used 2011 and down on the Toyota lot for sale.  Cab companies have a standing order for them.  I've promised first crack at my wife's 2012 to the owner of the biggest fleet here in the OS.

[ArticSteve]

I had one of each of the two previous gen Camrys.  The '04 was the worst with transmission failure and complete replacement at 4,500 km, oil leaks that couldn't be fixed, water pump failure, loose body parts, eg, rear spolier never fit properly or tight, various rattles, poor paint quality and an instance of sudden accelleration when cruise control inadvertently engaged by itself in city traffic

Then after all that, and all the other vehicles in the market to pick from, you bought another. 

Pure BS.

 

[ArticSteve]

People keep saying this about hybrids.  Is the hybrid drivetrain more complex than a standard transmission with clutch, let alone an automatic?  I think I'd rather have a planetary gearset and a couple of electric motors any day rather than a typical automatic.  Are there any reports of CVT's and electric motors failing in hybrids?  How about the track record of normal automatics?

Bang on.  The article continues this misconception because for simplicity Toyota describes the "transmission" as a "CVT".  It's actually a PSD for Power Split Device, fixed ratio.  The CVTs that all you refer to are essentially snowmobile transmissions - 2 pulleys and a belt made for various materials.