Topic: 2014 Jeep Cherokee To Start At $23,495 In Canada

[SaskSpecV]

Jeep is adapting to the market.

Nissan is probably getting the same message from Xterra sales. Most people aren't interested in getting beat up in day to day driving.

Possibly a specious argument, SirO.  Xterra sales are certainly tanking - but is that CAUSED by the fact that people don't want to get beat up in a true off-road vehicle?  Maybe.  Or is it CAUSED by the fact that Nissan hasn't updated the damn thing in 8+ years, while the competition has improved?  Jeep Wrangler sales - gangbuster - indicate that a lot of folks still don't mind a BOF SUV. 

Unfortunately, despite its high-tech powertrain and features I'm not sure how the Cherokee will sell - I haven't seen a mainstream vehicle styling this polarizing since the Juke.  And that really isn't mainstream!

[Fobroader]

This thing is guanteed to have a much more rigid body than the old XJ. So what else is missing? 8.7 inches of ground clearance is pretty good and better than the stock XJ. The engine is a hell of a lot more powerful, and backed by a 9 speed and a two speed planetary gearset for high and low ranges. It's got four wheel independent suspension like every other modern off roader but for relics like the Wrangler and G-class.

Relics?? Youve never put a wheel of a paved road, and I can tell you why, IFS/IRS has no place here in our mountains, you want something with a live axle for crawling over boulders. Independent suspension is great for high speed desert stuff.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

This thing is guanteed to have a much more rigid body than the old XJ. So what else is missing? 8.7 inches of ground clearance is pretty good and better than the stock XJ. The engine is a hell of a lot more powerful, and backed by a 9 speed and a two speed planetary gearset for high and low ranges. It's got four wheel independent suspension like every other modern off roader but for relics like the Wrangler and G-class.

Relics?? Youve never put a wheel of a paved road, and I can tell you why, IFS/IRS has no place here in our mountains, you want something with a live axle for crawling over boulders. Independent suspension is great for high speed desert stuff.

I had a YJ and stock it was hopeless. No axle articulation, springs that absolutely thrashed you on road, but had nowhere near enough travel offroad. And my personal favourite, having both the front and back ends step to the side on compression ridges in corners. With the short wheelbase, it could cause an impromptu offroad excursion. My XV is a much better off road car than the stock YJ ever was.

Now if it was heavily modified, it would have been ok. But then it becomes less and less of a street vehicle. The best rock crawlers are the ones that show up on trailers and aren't even remotely street legal. Hard to make that kind of business case.

[Fobroader]

This thing is guanteed to have a much more rigid body than the old XJ. So what else is missing? 8.7 inches of ground clearance is pretty good and better than the stock XJ. The engine is a hell of a lot more powerful, and backed by a 9 speed and a two speed planetary gearset for high and low ranges. It's got four wheel independent suspension like every other modern off roader but for relics like the Wrangler and G-class.

Relics?? Youve never put a wheel of a paved road, and I can tell you why, IFS/IRS has no place here in our mountains, you want something with a live axle for crawling over boulders. Independent suspension is great for high speed desert stuff.

I had a YJ and stock it was hopeless. No axle articulation, springs that absolutely thrashed you on road, but had nowhere near enough travel offroad. And my personal favourite, having both the front and back ends step to the side on compression ridges in corners. With the short wheelbase, it could cause an impromptu offroad excursion. My XV is a much better off road car than the stock YJ ever was.

Now if it was heavily modified, it would have been ok. But then it becomes less and less of a street vehicle. The best rock crawlers are the ones that show up on trailers and aren't even remotely street legal. Hard to make that kind of business case.

YJ and CJs had an inherent problem, the leaf springs, you can make the flex and be comfortable, there were a few composite monoleaf systems out there that can do wonders. Take the JK for instance, an OME or AEV small lift and some 35" tires, you will be blown away at how comfortable you can be on and offroad. To make a proper independent suspension, it takes huge coin or an immense amount of fabrication and engineering.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

YJ and CJs had an inherent problem, the leaf springs, you can make the flex and be comfortable, there were a few composite mono leaf systems out there that can do wonders. Take the JK for instance, an OME or AEV small lift and some 35" tires, you will be blown away at how comfortable you can be on and offroad. To make a proper independent suspension, it takes huge coin or an immense amount of fabrication and engineering.

Yup. But with a lot of suspension travel and softer springs, they suck on road, especially if you disconnect the sway bars as some of my friends did. Since leaf springs control both the vertical and horizontal movement of the axle, softer springs can make things really interesting with lateral loads unless you slip in a Panhard rod. Now that's fine for a home built, but manufacturer's can't think that way.

Independent suspensions are more expensive to modify. You can't use hockey pucks in the shackles to get a cheap lift. But they do work better in varying terrain. It's why Land Rover, Hummer, even the old Iltis were set up this way.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

Jeep is adapting to the market.

Nissan is probably getting the same message from Xterra sales. Most people aren't interested in getting beat up in day to day driving.

Possibly a specious argument, SirO.  Xterra sales are certainly tanking - but is that CAUSED by the fact that people don't want to get beat up in a true off-road vehicle?  Maybe.  Or is it CAUSED by the fact that Nissan hasn't updated the damn thing in 8+ years, while the competition has improved?  Jeep Wrangler sales - gangbuster - indicate that a lot of folks still don't mind a BOF SUV. 

Unfortunately, despite its high-tech powertrain and features I'm not sure how the Cherokee will sell - I haven't seen a mainstream vehicle styling this polarizing since the Juke.  And that really isn't mainstream!

That's fair. The introduction of the 4 door Unlimited in 2007 has clouded any trend in Wrangler sales. It seems to be bouncing between 120k and 140k units for the last few years.

[tooscoops]

to appease the folks saying jeep is losing their heritage, the higher ups did something that used to be standard for all new jeep products... brought an unmodified cherokee to the rubicon trail and ran it...

it wasn't all that pretty (some pictures show a serious lack of wheel articulation) but it did it... so not just test it in a lab and stick a trail rated badge on it... this one has actually seen some trails.

its not the same as the old off-road technology... because this isn't meant to be a 80%-20% off-on road vehicle... its going to be a 5%-95% off-on road vehicle. not only that, but technology has evolved... if we didn't change our perceptions, fast cars now would have v16's rather than twin turbo 6's and 8's... sure, some complain about no replacement for displacement, but it's a complaint in the same vein as these jeepers.

[greengs]

I think this is going to sell very well.  People will get used to the looks and with the pricing it looks to be very competitive.

[Stilllovetrucks]

This is a Dart on steroids....youve effectively taken away what Jeep has been all about for years, modifying the vehicle to your own taste. The car suspension on this thing will be weak and very expensive to modify, a lot easier to take an 8.8 out of an Explorer, weld on your spring pads, shock mounts and upgrade the rear axle on an XJ. This thing...bwahahaha....lets wait and see what the sales are like....by initial opinion, this thing will get redesigned within the first year of production.

I was going to say it but you beat me to it - a lifted Dodge Dart with a Cherokee name? Shameful, and utterly destructive to the once esteemed "Cherokee" brand. That label used to carry some weight with enthusiasts, in the late-90's it was a cheap and tough little SUV that could go almost anywhere and was easily (and frequently) modified. I guess the target group who wants a capable vehicle has moved to pickups as it seems the 'authentic SUV' segment is quickly disappearing. There are very few body-on-frame smallish SUV's left, the XTerra being one of the only options that I can think of.



Dear Nissan, you've already ruined the Pathfinder, pretty please don't screw up the XTerra with the next version and make it into yet another mini-van with 4 doors and plastic skid plates!

 

[MarkStevenson]

"It’s also the first Cherokee to not be a body-on-frame affair, instead riding on the Compact U.S. Wide architecture used by the Dodge Dart and a number of Fiats."

Uhhh...excuse me? The 1984-2001 Cherokee was unibody. Everyone knows that. Except, I guess, the author.

Fixed. Thanks for the correction!

[tooscoops]

heh.. "thanks for the correction"... suuuuure... oliver could have used a nicer tone to give his criticisms... not quite worthy of a "thanks"... more a "noted and changed"


anywho... i was just looking at some insider stuff... looks like there is a row of these that already has an all new front clip on it. not a huge difference, and i don't think it was to change the look (more for airflow to cool the engine or something), but man... this thing is going to be sooo delayed.

[Fobroader]

heh.. "thanks for the correction"... suuuuure... oliver could have used a nicer tone to give his criticisms... not quite worthy of a "thanks"... more a "noted and changed"


anywho... i was just looking at some insider stuff... looks like there is a row of these that already has an all new front clip on it. not a huge difference, and i don't think it was to change the look (more for airflow to cool the engine or something), but man... this thing is going to be sooo delayed.

Delayed....or cancelled?!?! 

[OliverD]

heh.. "thanks for the correction"... suuuuure... oliver could have used a nicer tone to give his criticisms... not quite worthy of a "thanks"... more a "noted and changed"

Haha, that is fair. I was so astonished by the mistake I forgot to be nice!

[tooscoops]

we all forget sometimes!

and this thing will be delayed is all... sergio is trying to stop any of this "get it out on the roads and if it fails, fix it", mentality that has pervaded chrysler (and many others)... that is the most expensive kind of fix...

ideally, catch it in design... if not, catch it before production... if not, catch it in quality control... if not catch it prior to getting it to customers... if not, recall and fix...

THAT is the order that is should go.. and if done well, it shouldn't get to the last stage. as it goes to the next step there are more costs invoved.. some quantitative, some qualitative, but always more expensive down the line.

glad they are doing all they can... but this has been a very hyped car and if there are more delays (which there will be... new engine(s), new body style, new transmission, new 4x4 systems, new factories.... bound to happen), it's going to hurt the public perception, even if the final product is great.

[MarkStevenson]

heh.. "thanks for the correction"... suuuuure... oliver could have used a nicer tone to give his criticisms... not quite worthy of a "thanks"... more a "noted and changed"

Haha, that is fair. I was so astonished by the mistake I forgot to be nice!

Meh, I take it in stride. It was something that I typed, meant to fact check, and then didn't. So, I don't mind the scorn. It's my own dumb fault for not fact checking.

Also, regarding the Cherokee, tooscoops mentions a different front clip. The Trailhawk trim gets a different front end than the rest of the range. Maybe that's the difference you are seeing?

[tooscoops]

i can't find it on my links now, but there was a row of them that had a new front clip... the comments said it would be easier to inject, and also had some changes to the spots where the air would flow in...

the latest word on the delay was heating issues, so i attempted to put 2+2 together and figure that front end might assist with the current issues.

man... still can't find that link... i think it has been removed by chrysler.

[PJ]

This thing is guanteed to have a much more rigid body than the old XJ. So what else is missing? 8.7 inches of ground clearance is pretty good and better than the stock XJ. The engine is a hell of a lot more powerful, and backed by a 9 speed and a two speed planetary gearset for high and low ranges. It's got four wheel independent suspension like every other modern off roader but for relics like the Wrangler and G-class.

Name a "modern off roader" that can go off road.

This is a front wheel drive car with power to the rear wheels for the snow.  I imagine Jeep will give it enough nannies to make traction acceptable but the underpinnings will never take impacts from rocks, logs etc.

The Liberty had it's faults but it's truck suspension could take abuse.  This is a fashion accessory for those who want to look like they do something interesting, not for those that do.

It's in the same class as the Compass and Patriot.

I blame marketing people who think the only thing that makes a Jeep a Jeep is the grill. 

[Sir Osis of Liver]

And yeah, it can be lifted if you really need to.

http://www.expeditionportal.com/vehicules/4x4/land-rover/1656-how-to-lift-a-land-rover-lr4-in-30-minutes-or-less.html