Topic: '13 Ford Focus ST or '13 Mazda Mazdaspeed3?

[Zorro]

i'm not too familiar of the 'ins & outs' of an LSD but this is what R&T think about it:

"The optional (for Europe, likely for us, too) Performance package adds upgraded brakes sized similarly to those on the last-generation Golf R, 10 hp more (from revised engine controls), and of chief importance: an electronically controlled mechanical limited-slip differential. The Performance package gives the GTI otherworldly traction—think halfway between a regular front-wheel-drive car and an all-wheel-drive car—in the dry at least. It rockets out of corners with no drama, no wheelspin, and (here’s the most impressive part) no torque steer. None. And yet the steering stillmanages to have some feel. Wow."

[Fobroader]

I always understood that a conventional LSD was an unpleasant thing to have on a FWD car... nasty effects on the steering.    A Torsen LSD (technically a torque apportioning differential...not the same thing really) would be the way to go  but more expensive.

Quaife has had an LSD for FWDs for the longest time, buddy of mine with a Civic had one and it was amazing. It totally changes the cars handling for the positive and the traction benefits are innumerable.

http://www.quaife.co.uk/differentials

[Fobroader]

Quaife made the LSD for the Cobalt SS/SC, too. It was good. Helped with traction in winter, too.

It didn't help my Stage II SS when I blew into a concrete wall at 110 on the 401, though 

Grreat juggling jesus....what the hell happened?? thank god youre still on the right side of the grass.

[aaronk]

Hmm, if I was spending this kind of money it would only be on a GTI. That said, between the two listed, I'd say the MS3 would be more aggressive, more fun and you could probably negotiate pretty heavily on the price. I still can't believe the Amuricans can buy a brand spanking new MS3 for $24K.

[Fobroader]

After a rainstorm, went through a deep puddle I couldn't see on the Allen Exit going Westbound....hydroplaned and blew into the wall....this was 2007-2008. If you look at the end of the concrete barrier on that exit you can still see the black paint to this day......that was me.

Damn....   

[johngenx]

Yeah, it needs to be a very well thought out LSD to work in FWD.  VW has that electronically controlled unit that is supposed to be nearly magical.

What I've noticed lately is that there is a nice segment expanding: hot/fun cars at $30-35K.  Ford finally gives us a hot Focus, VW not only keep improving the GTI, but gives the R (for a budget stretch, but it's there!), Mazda hasn't dropped the MS3, Subaru has upped the value of the WRX AND lowered the price of the STi.  The FR-S/BRZ is CRAZY in terms of bang for your buck.

Add in some larger nice big-power V-6 cars in the Camaro and Mustang, and there are all kinds of sporty cars around.  Cool!!

[aaronk]

Yeah, it needs to be a very well thought out LSD to work in FWD.  VW has that electronically controlled unit that is supposed to be nearly magical.

What I've noticed lately is that there is a nice segment expanding: hot/fun cars at $30-35K.  Ford finally gives us a hot Focus, VW not only keep improving the GTI, but gives the R (for a budget stretch, but it's there!), Mazda hasn't dropped the MS3, Subaru has upped the value of the WRX AND lowered the price of the STi.  The FR-S/BRZ is CRAZY in terms of bang for your buck.

Add in some larger nice big-power V-6 cars in the Camaro and Mustang, and there are all kinds of sporty cars around.  Cool!!

Yep, affordable enthusiast cars are a good thing. The price bracket is getting even lower - look at the upcoming Fiesta ST, is that going to be like $22-23K? Great stuff.

[tpl]

I always understood that a conventional LSD was an unpleasant thing to have on a FWD car... nasty effects on the steering.    A Torsen LSD (technically a torque apportioning differential...not the same thing really) would be the way to go  but more expensive.

Quaife has had an LSD for FWDs for the longest time, buddy of mine with a Civic had one and it was amazing. It totally changes the cars handling for the positive and the traction benefits are innumerable.

http://www.quaife.co.uk/differentials

Yes.  From their website.

Whilst requiring some torque in the slipping wheel, the QUAIFE unit is progressive in action but never locks – controlled power is transmitted to all the driving wheels.

[HeliDriver]

Yeah, it needs to be a very well thought out LSD to work in FWD.  VW has that electronically controlled unit that is supposed to be nearly magical.

What I've noticed lately is that there is a nice segment expanding: hot/fun cars at $30-35K.  Ford finally gives us a hot Focus, VW not only keep improving the GTI, but gives the R (for a budget stretch, but it's there!), Mazda hasn't dropped the MS3, Subaru has upped the value of the WRX AND lowered the price of the STi.  The FR-S/BRZ is CRAZY in terms of bang for your buck.

Add in some larger nice big-power V-6 cars in the Camaro and Mustang, and there are all kinds of sporty cars around.  Cool!!

Yep, affordable enthusiast cars are a good thing. The price bracket is getting even lower - look at the upcoming Fiesta ST, is that going to be like $22-23K? Great stuff.

+1. I think the Fiesta ST is really interesting.

[Fobroader]

I always understood that a conventional LSD was an unpleasant thing to have on a FWD car... nasty effects on the steering.    A Torsen LSD (technically a torque apportioning differential...not the same thing really) would be the way to go  but more expensive.

Quaife has had an LSD for FWDs for the longest time, buddy of mine with a Civic had one and it was amazing. It totally changes the cars handling for the positive and the traction benefits are innumerable.

http://www.quaife.co.uk/differentials

Yes.  From their website.

Whilst requiring some torque in the slipping wheel, the QUAIFE unit is progressive in action but never locks – controlled power is transmitted to all the driving wheels.

You would only want a locker in a drag racing application...even then....that would be scary.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

The Focus RS had the Quaife diff and the RevoKnuckle suspension. Worked well, but expensive and the Revo added a fair bit of unsprung weight to the front end apparently. I don't know if they'll be making a return in the Focus.

[wing]

The LSD in my racecar works great and it's from a 2000 g20

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus

[Snowman]

Wouldn't it be cool if Toyota took the STi and dipped it in Lexus.

Didnt Saab try that with the WRX???

Yes, but that was GM dilution.

[dkaz]

All MazdaSpeed 3s have LSDs...

[Fobroader]

All MazdaSpeed 3s have LSDs...

Isnt it electronic/brake force type??

[Julie]

+1. I think the Fiesta ST is really interesting.

We recently had a Fiesta (regular version) as a rental and thought, "Wow, better than we expected" We liked. It stood out from the usual, little, cheapo rental cars we've experienced.

So yeah, will be interested to see what the ST is like...

That said, everyone's car preferences are different. If OP's gut prefers the MS3, well then.....

If he can wait tho', I'd also wait to see what the new Mark VII Golf/ GTI is like.........................

Current incentives on the Mazda 3 and MS3:

Cash Purchase Incentive:

$3,000 Discount on GT, Sport GT models and on GX and Sport GX base models. $2,500 Discount on other models. Contact dealer for more details. Ends July 2, 2013.

Finance Incentive:

$500 Discount on Mazdaspeed3 models. Finance at 0.00% for up to 84 months. Ends July 2, 2013.

Lease Incentive:

$500 Discount on Mazdaspeed3; Lease at 1.99/2.49% for 36/48 months.

Lease at 0.00% for up to 60 months on other models. Ends July 2, 2013.

[Arctic_White]

Not sure how long your purchase can wait, but if you aren't in a hurry the new MK7 GTI should be at the top of your list. It will be using the new MQB platform...C&D just did a comparo between the ST & MK7 GTI, and it beat it pretty badly.

The GTI will also have an available 'power package', which includes bigger brakes, 10hp bump & an LSD. The C&D used a reg. GTI in their head to head.

I could wait, but GTI would be way too expensive and over my budget.  I'm quite weary of VW due to their reliability, perceived or otherwise.

[rrocket]

I met a fellow at Calabogie who had an ST - he said the electronics did wonders on the track.  He cross-shopped the ST against an STI for a daily driver that he could also track (he upgraded from an older WRX).  He expected he would get the STI, but liked the ST better.

Seeing as how the STI would be almost $20K more......

[Arctic_White]

+1. I think the Fiesta ST is really interesting.

We recently had a Fiesta (regular version) as a rental and thought, "Wow, better than we expected" We liked. It stood out from the usual, little, cheapo rental cars we've experienced.

So yeah, will be interested to see what the ST is like...

That said, everyone's car preferences are different. If OP's gut prefers the MS3, well then.....

If he can wait tho', I'd also wait to see what the new Mark VII Golf/ GTI is like.........................

Current incentives on the Mazda 3 and MS3:

Cash Purchase Incentive:

$3,000 Discount on GT, Sport GT models and on GX and Sport GX base models. $2,500 Discount on other models. Contact dealer for more details. Ends July 2, 2013.

Finance Incentive:

$500 Discount on Mazdaspeed3 models. Finance at 0.00% for up to 84 months. Ends July 2, 2013.

Lease Incentive:

$500 Discount on Mazdaspeed3; Lease at 1.99/2.49% for 36/48 months.

Lease at 0.00% for up to 60 months on other models. Ends July 2, 2013.

Thanks for this, Julie!

After much deliberation, put a deposit down for the Ford Focus ST.

Here was my thought process:

Even though I liked the MS3 better in terms of looks and it's overall power, it was not nearly as fun to drive as the ST is.  The Focus has so many neat features.  As a tech lover, I'm totally hooked on what Ford has to offer.

Yes, it is much smaller than the 'Speed3 and yes, the reliability may not be as good as the Mazda which is built in Japan, but it has a vastly superior interior. 

Sure the ST's looks aren't as crisp as Mazda's, but it is extremely easy to drive on a day-to-day basis.

Mazda "felt" like it is always on the edge.  During the short test-drive, it felt way more fun as the ST felt more subdued, but I don't think i could live with the 'Speed3's edginenss on a daily basis.

Surprisingly, they are all sold out of Ford Focus ST unless you want an Orange colour.

Thanks for all your input, folks!

[HeliDriver]

Good choice - congrats!

So, are you ordering one, or taking the orange? I'm not a huge fan of the oddball colours, myself. I do think the exterior of the Focus looks really sharp in silver or dark grey, though.