Topic: '13 Ford Focus ST or '13 Mazda Mazdaspeed3?

[johngenx]

I thought the torque steer in the MS3 was horrific.

Me too.  Too much power for the chassis.  Cool idea, but the execution rubs me wrong.  I'd like to drive an ST. 

I think VW is smart not putting more than 200hp in the GTI FWD chassis.  The GTI is one of the best FWD chassis, period.

[rrocket]

I thought the torque steer in the MS3 was horrific.

Me too.  Too much power for the chassis.  Cool idea, but the execution rubs me wrong.  I'd like to drive an ST. 

I think VW is smart not putting more than 200hp in the GTI FWD chassis. The GTI is one of the best FWD chassis, period.

The one test I read they said the ST chassis was superior.  It may have been this one?  http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-reviews/car-comparison-tests/ford-focus-st-vs-volkswagen-gti-vs-mazdaspeed3

Would be tough to tell though...unless you were testing back to back.

[johngenx]

Interesting!  Sounds like Ford has done some FWD magic.

[Arctic_White]

Interesting!  Sounds like Ford has done some FWD magic.

Yeah, the Ford Focus ST was definitely a handler.  Very, very easy to drive.  Super light clutch.

[Arctic_White]

I thought the torque steer in the MS3 was horrific.

Me too.  Too much power for the chassis.  Cool idea, but the execution rubs me wrong.  I'd like to drive an ST. 

I think VW is smart not putting more than 200hp in the GTI FWD chassis. The GTI is one of the best FWD chassis, period.

The one test I read they said the ST chassis was superior.  It may have been this one?  http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-reviews/car-comparison-tests/ford-focus-st-vs-volkswagen-gti-vs-mazdaspeed3

Would be tough to tell though...unless you were testing back to back.

It's surprising to see that almost all the comparisons have placed the Focus ST on top over MS3 and GTI. 

I guess interior room and ergonomics is not important to them as much?

[Fobroader]

Im a big fan of the WRX, BRZ/FR-S for under $30k....but between the two you chose the ST hands down. Ford is actually pretty good at the Focus hot hatch and its good at little turbo 4 bangers.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

A friend of mine looked at a GTi and ST back to back. We both preferred the ST. We never tried the Mazdaspeed.

It didn't help that the GTi had a CEL and an out of round tire.

[rrocket]

It's surprising to see that almost all the comparisons have placed the Focus ST on top over MS3 and GTI. 

I guess interior room and ergonomics is not important to them as much?

Why is it surprising?  It's the BETTER hot hatch!  You're just in denial because you like the MS3.

It's a performance comparison.....you think they care how many cases of empties they can fit in it?   

[Fobroader]

I thought the torque steer in the MS3 was horrific.

Me too.  Too much power for the chassis.  Cool idea, but the execution rubs me wrong.  I'd like to drive an ST. 

I think VW is smart not putting more than 200hp in the GTI FWD chassis. The GTI is one of the best FWD chassis, period.

The one test I read they said the ST chassis was superior.  It may have been this one?  http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-reviews/car-comparison-tests/ford-focus-st-vs-volkswagen-gti-vs-mazdaspeed3

Would be tough to tell though...unless you were testing back to back.

It's surprising to see that almost all the comparisons have placed the Focus ST on top over MS3 and GTI. 

I guess interior room and ergonomics is not important to them as much?

For running around a track, the Focus would definitely be my choice.

[Arctic_White]

It's surprising to see that almost all the comparisons have placed the Focus ST on top over MS3 and GTI. 

I guess interior room and ergonomics is not important to them as much?

Why is it surprising?  It's the BETTER hot hatch!  You're just in denial because you like the MS3.

It's a performance comparison.....you think they care how many cases of empties they can fit in it?   

LOL.

No question that ST was a better handler and it had amazing features. 

Perhaps I value interior space a tad more than the reviewers.  =)

[rrocket]

Perhaps I value interior space a tad more than the reviewers.  =)

You would be in the VERY small % who care.....as it pertains to hot hatches.

People generally care less about interior volume...and more about performance/handling.

And by looking at the specs, the Mazda isn't exactly "roomy" compared to the others.

[evil_twin]

Certainly sounds like you've already decided on an MS3 (and there isn't really a "wrong" choice in this segment), but I'll throw in my 2 cents:

I considered (and test drove) the WRX, GTI, and MS3 back in 2010.  Ended up picking the WRX as the AWD factor trumped the FWD options (IMO).  That said, the interior is very econo-box.

The GTI was a close 2nd for me.  It's not super fast, but the interior and "german feel" of the package are really quite exceptional in a $30k ride.  I still look at GTIs (and especially Golf Rs) with some envy...It really is a perfect little package for 99% of daily driving.

The MS3 just came across as as a mismatch of power and chassis.  Huge torque steer that never inspired any confidence to drive it quickly.  The GTI seemed to reach that perfect limit of power for FWD.

Reading reviews, sounds like ST has pushed that power limit while still maintaining nice handling dynamics.

[dkaz]

Mazda 3 has reliability issues with the turbo beyond 80,000km. I like both though.

Really?  But not if you change oil every 4 months or 8K kms with good synthetic oil.

I meant MazdaSpeed 3. Lol. See smoking turbo issue although there's a 160,000 km warranty on the turbo. I've seen a few 2.3 DISI engine failures too.

Naturally aspirated, Mazda engines are just as reliable as Toyota IMO.

[toolatecrew]

ST hands down for me.

MS3 is getting pretty dated. A little too rough and crude for me. Lots of power but engine really has no desire to pull above 5500 rpm. Torque steer.

I know some people don't like the Focus space age interior but I do. I like the looks of the ST much more.

I don't know if any of them will be a paragon of reliability. I guess if you want a pocket rocket that is you have to settle for a 200 hp Civic SI.

In the end its what speaks to you but I'd make sure I took a really long test drive even see if you can get one for a day to see if the MS3 is what you want for day to day.

If I had the 30 K needed I'd have an ST in my driveway tomorrow. If I couldn't get that I'd get a GTI (again)

[Snowman]

Wouldn't it be cool if Toyota took the STi and dipped it in the Lexus vat.

[Fobroader]

Wouldn't it be cool if Toyota took the STi and dipped it in Lexus.

Didnt Saab try that with the WRX???

[Zorro]

Not sure how long your purchase can wait, but if you aren't in a hurry the new MK7 GTI should be at the top of your list. It will be using the new MQB platform...C&D just did a comparo between the ST & MK7 GTI, and it beat it pretty badly.

The GTI will also have an available 'power package', which includes bigger brakes, 10hp bump & an LSD. The C&D used a reg. GTI in their head to head.

[Fobroader]

Very nice, factory LSD!! Good on ya VW, more companies should follow suit, make more FWD at least competitive.

[Fobroader]

Very nice, factory LSD!! Good on ya VW, more companies should follow suit, make more FWD at least competitive.

MY 2007 Cobalt SS/SC has a factory LSD. Ahead of the curve, yo!

 

Really....if GM stuck an LSD into a Cobalt way back when, why is Mazda, Ford, VW....everyone, sending their cars into battle with a peg leg??

[tpl]

I always understood that a conventional LSD was an unpleasant thing to have on a FWD car... nasty effects on the steering.    A Torsen LSD (technically a torque apportioning differential...not the same thing really) would be the way to go  but more expensive.