Topic: Comparison Test: Sport Sedans

[Solstice2006]

The Buick Verano is a much better car than the Acura ILX, any review or personal test drive will tell you that.  Maybe they donīt have a TL beater yet, but they are trying.  And with more sales than Acura, I believe they are succeeding.  On a side note, I think the TL is a great sub-luxury car.  And I donīt think the ATS tried to imitate the 3 series, the used it as a benchmark, and did a great job.  Just like when any car company makes a compact, they use the Civic as the benchmark, or the CR-V if making a CUV.  It all depends on what their goal is, to be something a little different like Mazda, or try to be a sales leader. 

[Sir Osis of Liver]

Buick is working hard to get the cobwebs and Worther's Originals out of their closet. Turbo Verano with a 6sp? Regal GS with AWD and a 6sp? Soon to be announced Grand National? Buick is trying here, it takes time to turn your image around...just ask Lexus.

Also, I certainly would cross-shop a Buick with an Acura. Actually that isnt true, I would never consider an Acura in the first place....

Difference is, Acura is a very well known quantity, and very good as it is. While Buick, as you yourself put it, is still trying hard. Let them continue trying and I wish them all the success in the future.

GM is trying hard and that means they are experimenting too much. The longevity of those experiements is questionable. Look at ATS, it gave up everything for the sake of performance. It's no longer a Caddy, it's a BMW impersonator. Who will they want to impersonate tomorrow? While they are at it, I'll stick with the originals.

Buick sacrificed its core strength in pursuit of a younger buyer. Was it worth it? Time will tell.

While I want to live my life today. TL for me any day. Thank you.

So the sportier Cadillac is a BMW impersonator. Does that make the softer, larger BMW a Cadillac impersonator? That line of reasoning cuts both ways.

As far as Acura being a know quantity, according to who exactly? Everybody has an image of what a Buick is, some positive, some negative. A big portion of the population still has no real clue what an Acura is. They've drifted from sport compacts like the RSX Type S, to hopped up Hondas like the CSX, to soft luxo barges like the RL and even pseudo exotics like the NSX. None were bad cars, but the brand image is all over the place.

Buick as a brand is outselling Acura in the US by about 13000 units year to date. It's also outselling Audi, Infiniti, Lincoln and Volvo, with sales up by 27% YTD.

[ChaosphereIX]

yep, that is better than before, but still not to my taste. But styling is subjective, as I said.

Nice clean car though.

Wait for the Regal GS AWD to come, which is soon...then I would say Acura has nothing to offer over the Buick.

And what cash back incentives? Just this month does GM offer $1k off the Regal stackable, nothing before that. And that is ONLY because their interest rates are not being brought down to the 1.xx and 2.xx range...The Verano has $1500 off, but that is non-stackable with financing or leasing...

[Sir Osis of Liver]

Buick as a brand is outselling Acura in the US by about 13000 units year to date. It's also outselling Audi, Infiniti, Lincoln and Volvo, with sales up by 27% YTD.

This is greatly due to Cash back incentives.

Also, isn't there three times as many Buick dealers in the US than Acura, expecially evident in the smaller centres?  Might sway sales figures.

The Verano and Enclave are selling really well. The Regal and Lacross are getting up there in age, so have incentives. Lots of GM dealers does help.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

The TL updates did a lot to help its looks. Certainly an underrated car in my books.

[hemusbull]

I like these fruitless discussions! Seems to me from all five competing cars the winner is ...the sixth one - Acura TL. LOL

[normancw]

Maybe a face only a mother can love but the 2012 changes made a huge difference IMO.

Looks great

[roundupready]

Thanks for the great comparison review.  Enjoyed reading it greatly.

Maybe you can take the top one or two winners in this test and do another comparison with new Q50/IS350.  But it seems the two Germans are still too far ahead for the Japanese to catch up?

Drove my friend's old C240 many times before and I could not understand why anyone would pay big money for that car. I was hoping the newer cars would be better.

Looking forward to more reviews.   

[mixmanmash]

As to the Acura, a TL SH-AWD might have fit, but there are limits to how many cars we can handle logistically, and frankly, didn't think the TL would be competitive with these cars. As to its size, it is quite a bit longer than any of these, but the wheelbase is shorter than the A4 and 3 Series... Also, the pricing of the fully loaded TL would probably undercut even the C-Class - Acura is simply playing in a sub-luxury segment with Buick right now. TL or TSX vs Regal GS might be a more fitting comparo of FWD near-luxury.

"But on a racetrack, the TL showed us exactly why Acura used the word "super" to describe its Super-Handling All-Wheel-Drive system. Despite its significant power advantage, the Audi S4's fastest lap beat the TL's by only 0.4 second.

Read more: http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews/driven/1008_2010_acura_tl_sh_awd_vs_2010_audi_s4/viewall.html#ixzz1ddf1Iok3

In terms of performance, it would be more than a match.  Now add in more attractive pricing, better crash performance, and better longer term reliability and cost of ownership and....

but it is sooooo ugly...

Agreed.  This was the last best looking TL:

[jhonnybravo]

Who cares about Acura anyway anymore? I could easily see them going the way of Suzuki. If not for the MDX and TL I doubt Acura would sell 10,000 cars a a year, even their best sellers have dismal sales numbers.

 Our local dealer had to turn 3/4 of his lot into used sales just to stay afloat. Acura really has nothing to offer in this class anymore that is competitive enough to run with MB, BMW, and now even Cadillac.

Too bad, I thought Acura had so much potential, now they just sit there with overpriced FWD based offerings that nobody is buying anymore.

[Fobroader]

All you guys saying the TL is ugly....really...while I agree the first generation was much better looking, sleeker and more toned, the current generation is certainly not Sarah Jessica Parker. Beauty certainly is in the eye of the beholder, but ugly, I cant see it.

[tpl]

as pointed out by a number of poster, you guys are kind of stretching the boundaries when it come to price.  10k dollars puts you up against a class above many times. 

i've driven an a4 s line, 328i, 2L ats and the 300 c class.  i would rank the a4 first, then the 328i, with the ats very close behind and the c class last.  when i priced these cars, the audi was the best equipped at similar price points....by far.  with respect to the others, caddy seems to have realized they have created something quite special because they don't seem to want to share it with anyone. they decided to draw both pistols so they could blow both their corporate feet off simultaneously by offering the most retarded packages this side of lexus.  simply amazing.   bmw, as always, seems to end up 5 or 6k grand more expensive than audi and merc, no matter how you try to configure it.  this is especially true for the 328 here in canada.  bmw canada is afraid that if they don't hobble the 328, it will kill the sales of the 335i.  so no m sport or sport suspension or bigger brakes here.  if it weren't for audi completely revamping their cars i'd be buying the a4.  i'm still standing by, to see what the q50 is all about, but now that they have announced the death of the manual it's probably out of contention before i even drive it.    unfortunately for me,  i can't seem to wrap my head around buying a semi auto over the manual.  this is really killing me, since most companies are ditching the proper transmission for the semi auto, including the very hot 2015 s3 sedan.

You are right about the demise of the manual in NA anyway. Now Ferrari, Porsche etc. have gone all or partially DCT there is no hope.

Having driven manuals for over 40 years I have to admit that I like the DSG/DCT "feel" as it works its magic whereas I dislike the torque converter '"feel".
Lately I have been driving mrs tpl's Fit all the time which has a very good gearbox/gearchange but I think I might like it more with a dsg.
So i think I'll live with DCTs from now on ( the new car is a 7 speed DCT)

[toolatecrew]

Buick as a brand is outselling Acura in the US by about 13000 units year to date. It's also outselling Audi, Infiniti, Lincoln and Volvo, with sales up by 27% YTD.

This is greatly due to Cash back incentives.

Also, isn't there three times as many Buick dealers in the US than Acura, expecially evident in the smaller centres?  Might sway sales figures.

The Verano and Enclave are selling really well. The Regal and Lacross are getting up there in age, so have incentives. Lots of GM dealers does help.

There are also lots of Buicks in rental fleets. Yes sales are sales but big sales numbers don't necessarily indicate the popularity of a car nor do they indicate that "people buy them because they like them"

. Buick says its fleet sales now are 11% of total, down from 19% a year ago.

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/driveon/post/2012/06/buick-sales-slump-tests-new-gms-resolve-discipline/1#.UYAs7rWPOV4
This isn't some kind of standard argument to discredit GM

Even 11% of Buick sales is substantially higher than say Acura who have almost no fleet sales.

Buicks YTD sales in the US are around 30,000

That means around 3300 Fleet sales

Acura has around 11,500 so Buicks Fleet sales are nearly 29% Acura's total sales.

All that said the article was well written its a great comparison and I still desperately want an S4 drool. .

[Rupert]

Why would most people prefer to use a manual on these highway cruisers anyway. Sure a few maybe but not most. If you pay for luxury it better be able to do it for you...and nicely too.

[Fobroader]

"Sport" sedans, if it was a Buick/oldsmobile/Avalon test, then yeah, slushbox away, a sport sedan, the manual is almost crucial.

[Rupert]

It's all words not actions. I doubt that the folk, interested in spending this amount of dough, would be racing around the streets heeling and toeing. Beyond the words they are just highway cruisers...well apointed ones to be sure...but still.

[kmah888333]

Great article! 

I'm playing "Devils' Advocate".  I am biased and I own a 2012 Volvo S60 R Design.  There were many reasons why I bought a Volvo over the others:

1. Safety.  Who cares about performance if you get into an accident and get killed.  Take a look at the IIHS small overlap test done recently.  When you have a car with 300+hp, yeah, you're going to be stupid at times.  The Volvo buys *some* assurance that you might come out of it alive when you make a dumb decision.  Pedestrian detection is also a great technology to have in the Volvo.  Unfortunately safety is probably the last thing people think about when buying a car.

2.  There are soo many Audi/BMW/Mercedes out there.  Everyone has one.  You really want to drive the same thing as everyone else? Sure they are great cars which is why everyone has one. 

3.  Raw TORQUE and HP.  I wonder what the quarter mile times are.

4.  S4 was out of my price range.  I was going for a FULLY loaded vehicle.  I like to know that someone who has the same vehicle than me got option X, that I don't have.   

okay... I know this will generate some discussion.  Please remember, I am playing Devils Advocate.

[Fobroader]

"Sport" sedans, if it was a Buick/oldsmobile/Avalon test, then yeah, slushbox away, a sport sedan, the manual is almost crucial.

.

They should do a similar test for affordable sports sedans.

WRX.....that is all. Manual, turbo, awd, fun to drive. No such thing as a cheap "sport" sedan, FWD kills them.

[bombastic]

The Acura TL SH-AWD Tech with the manual should have been a part of this test and should be a consideration.

While it's certainly "middle of the road" in comparison with the competition it puts up some damn good numbers and offers better value for money - to Redman's point.

The FR-S isn't a sedan and certainly can't work for family duty like the cars mentioned. If you sit in a 335 or S4 after sitting in a FR-S you will think it's twice the car.....because it is.

Acura is not a true luxury brand. So as it was said before. Value for money is a quite relative term. People buying German cars don;t really care at the Japanese competitors. Lexus might be an exception.

[bombastic]

As to the Acura, a TL SH-AWD might have fit, but there are limits to how many cars we can handle logistically, and frankly, didn't think the TL would be competitive with these cars. As to its size, it is quite a bit longer than any of these, but the wheelbase is shorter than the A4 and 3 Series... Also, the pricing of the fully loaded TL would probably undercut even the C-Class - Acura is simply playing in a sub-luxury segment with Buick right now. TL or TSX vs Regal GS might be a more fitting comparo of FWD near-luxury.

Now you've given me something to b1tch about.

There is no conveivable way an Acura shopper would cross shop the TL with a Buick. Acura is still a Honda which is more associated with excellent engineering, awesome engines, sweet manual transmissions (and boy racers too) while Buick is still hopelessly stuck with the old man's car stigma. Two opposite spectrums.

Secondly, the TL is near luxury but so are entry level luxury compacts from ze Germans, let alone the Volvo which is labeled as "premium" at best. The C-class is a leap behind the E-class in luxury, so Acura would fit quite nicely.

I think you are jumping to conclusions without giving the old timer a chance. The SH-AWD system is very good, the engine is potent, the manual is sweet and the interior appointments will easily rival the others. I'd vote it in and see how it fares. I doubt it would finish last.

Sounds like a Honda fanboy. Acura is a truc company now as it selling more SUVs than sedans.