Topic: First Drive: 2014 Subaru Forester

[sailor723]

From  the Subaru Canada website it appears that there is no discount for cash or zero (or near zero) financing. Given our special $5,000+ "only in Canada pricing premium" it seems like a US puchase is still at least worth considering. 

Agreed, but I don't think the US dealerships are selling new vehicles (particularly in-demand new vehicles like the new Forester and Crosstrek) to Canadians.  At least that's what Keene Subaru and Subaru of VT had on their websites last time I checked - which is odd, because they specifically cater to Canadian buyers.  They'll happily sell you a used Subaru from their lot though...

I actually don't mind Subaru's pricing strategy - price the vehicle (reasonably) competitively right from the start, and don't offer big discounts/cheap financing until a few years down the road.  The US pricing discrepancy really does hurts their "value" argument, though the extra features on Canadian vehicles (usually) offsets some of that difference.  However: Absolutely, positively, NO justification for the dealership gouging customers with "mandatory" BS admin fees...

When you price the new Forester on the Subaru Canada site it adds freight of $1595 PLUS another $470 on a different line under the heading of "Other Fees".  Anyone know what that's all about (other than a cash grab  )  I'm assuming the dealerships will still be adding their own admin fees, doc fees, this month we're a little short fees etc etc

[Noto]

So in total, US$21,999 vs C$27,594. I don't expect the pricing here to be the same as it is in the US, but to me this is excessive.

Forester:
$27,594-$21,999 (even though there IS a delivery charge and it's just not showing up on Subaru USA's website - it's $825) = Difference of $5,595 (or $4,770 with destination)

Mazda CX-5:
$24,890-$21,190 = $3,700

...it's an extra grand, not so outrageous.

Besides, Subaru will let you buy a new car, with warranty, from the US.  If you don't like it, go buy a US spec.  Mazda won't let you do that (and they won't honour the warranty).

[SaskSpecV]

When you price the new Forester on the Subaru Canada site it adds freight of $1595 PLUS another $470 on a different line under the heading of "Other Fees".  Anyone know what that's all about (other than a cash grab  )  I'm assuming the dealerships will still be adding their own admin fees, doc fees, this month we're a little short fees etc etc

I assume that the extra $470 ($495 in out West...) is the "mandatory" dealer admin fee.  Maybe Subaru Canada just figures they should show it to the customers BEFORE they walk into the showroom, rather than after the price is discussed?? 

Whatever - they can shell-game the price however they want.  You want to throw in BS dealer fees?  Fine, then sell the vehicle at/close to invoice - I'm sure there's still other margin left in there for the dealer.  But I expect Subaru dealers to be particlarly DBish on Forester pricing for the forseeable future - law of supply and demand and all...

[SaskSpecV]

Besides, Subaru will let you buy a new car, with warranty, from the US.  If you don't like it, go buy a US spec. 

If you can find a US dealer that will sell you one:
http://www.subaruofkeene.com/international-customers.htm
http://www.subaruvt.com/canadian-customers.htm

[Noto]

5 grand extra for the smaller engine? Come on, Subaru, don't play VWs diesel games!

How do you figure?

$31,295 for the Forester 2.5i Touring (with CVT) vs $32,495 for the 2.0XT Touring (compare trim to trim).  And besides, it's no longer 'just' an engine - you get new suspension, larger brakes, the whole turbo/intercooler set up, and the high-torque CVT, among others.

I'd pay $1,200 for the XT any day, always, and forever.

[Noto]

The RAV-4 pricing Can/US is very close.  Subaru of Canada has some of the largest pricing disparity in the market.  Add in very high dealer fees, and very expensive service departments, and it's kept me from buying a new product.  Four used ones, yes, but not a new one.

I disagree entirely.  As for your Rav4, XLE AWD (volume model) in US is $25,690 and $29,200 in Canada.

Also, my Forester's oil change costs $70, I had no exceptional dealer fees, and no surprise charges...ever.

Which competitor SUV were you trying to keep up with?

believe it or not, a GMC Terrain... I have no idea how that guy kept it on the road at that pace. he was bootin' it.

umm, GMC Terrain with 301hp 3.6L V6?  The thing may weigh a ton, but once it is already going with momentum, that V6 isn't exactly 'weak'.  In a drag race, the Forester would still win.

[sailor723]

The RAV-4 pricing Can/US is very close.  Subaru of Canada has some of the largest pricing disparity in the market.  Add in very high dealer fees, and very expensive service departments, and it's kept me from buying a new product.  Four used ones, yes, but not a new one.

I disagree entirely.  As for your Rav4, XLE AWD (volume model) in US is $25,690 and $29,200 in Canada.

Also, my Forester's oil change costs $70, I had no exceptional dealer fees, and no surprise charges...ever.

Which competitor SUV were you trying to keep up with?

believe it or not, a GMC Terrain... I have no idea how that guy kept it on the road at that pace. he was bootin' it.

umm, GMC Terrain with 301hp 3.6L V6?  The thing may weigh a ton, but once it is already going with momentum, that V6 isn't exactly 'weak'.  In a drag race, the Forester would still win.

johngenx and others here have posted a lot about poor service/ripoff parts&service pricing from Subaru dealers. That was never my experience here on the East Coast....maybe it's a BC/Alberta thing?

[SaskSpecV]

johngenx and others here have posted a lot about poor service/ripoff parts&service pricing from Subaru dealers. That was never my experience here on the East Coast....maybe it's a BC/Alberta thing?

Add SK to the list...well, at least S'toon.  Can't speak for Regina, but I'm sure SirO will chime in!

[Sir Osis of Liver]

I was happy with Fox Subaru in Fredericton. No issues at all.

Verdict is the same with AutoGallery here in Regina. I've heard some stories about shifty dealing by past ownership, but I haven't had any issues with the two cars I got there..

[jyarkony]

Which competitor SUV were you trying to keep up with?

believe it or not, a GMC Terrain... I have no idea how that guy kept it on the road at that pace. he was bootin' it.

umm, GMC Terrain with 301hp 3.6L V6?  The thing may weigh a ton, but once it is already going with momentum, that V6 isn't exactly 'weak'.  In a drag race, the Forester would still win.

This was not a drag race - this was an extremely curvy road with a lot of tight turns - not the Terrain's forte, but yeah,  I also figure it was packing the V6.

[jyarkony]

Nice review (first drive?) Jonathon.  I actually prefer the look of the 2009 - 2013 Foresters, but you can't argue with the other improvements Subaru has made for this generation.  Question for JY - I know they aren't direct competitors, but in your opinion how did the driving dynamics of the new (M/T) 2.5L Forester compare with your Mazda5 long-term tester?  Were they broadly similar (reasonably entertaining family haulers), or was one significantly different from the other?  Those are my two primary "next vehicle" candidates - the 6MT Forester Touring is the likely favourite right now, primarily due to the increased ground clearance and improved interior.  But I still want to give the Mazda5 a shot as well (I'd consider CX-5, but M/T only with the base model rules it out).

sorry, I missed this question, but I was actually thinking about the Mazda5 in relation to a bunch of other cars recently (CX-5, Forester, CR-V) because my wife reminded me how much she liked that the 5 wasn't too high for her to easily strap in our daughter (she's 5'0"). I really love the Mazda5. I found the manual transmission in the Mazda better, but overall driving quality seemed better in the Forester - cornered flatter, seemed a bit more punchy. For me though, that is not enough to overcome the advantage of the sliding doors, the sixth seat, but also the roominess of the second row with room for a fifth passenger in the third row rather than cramming three across the second row. For me it's all about the use of the fifth seat vs the need for AWD - I have no need for AWD, but frequently transport the MIL or another adult in addition to our two kids, so Mazda5 it would be for me, but no question the interior quality is better in the Forester, with more options on the 2.5i Convenience with the M/T, but at a steeper price, I think.

[SaskSpecV]

Nice review (first drive?) Jonathon.  I actually prefer the look of the 2009 - 2013 Foresters, but you can't argue with the other improvements Subaru has made for this generation.  Question for JY - I know they aren't direct competitors, but in your opinion how did the driving dynamics of the new (M/T) 2.5L Forester compare with your Mazda5 long-term tester?  Were they broadly similar (reasonably entertaining family haulers), or was one significantly different from the other?  Those are my two primary "next vehicle" candidates - the 6MT Forester Touring is the likely favourite right now, primarily due to the increased ground clearance and improved interior.  But I still want to give the Mazda5 a shot as well (I'd consider CX-5, but M/T only with the base model rules it out).

sorry, I missed this question, but I was actually thinking about the Mazda5 in relation to a bunch of other cars recently (CX-5, Forester, CR-V) because my wife reminded me how much she liked that the 5 wasn't too high for her to easily strap in our daughter (she's 5'0"). I really love the Mazda5. I found the manual transmission in the Mazda better, but overall driving quality seemed better in the Forester - cornered flatter, seemed a bit more punchy. For me though, that is not enough to overcome the advantage of the sliding doors, the sixth seat, but also the roominess of the second row with room for a fifth passenger in the third row rather than cramming three across the second row. For me it's all about the use of the fifth seat vs the need for AWD - I have no need for AWD, but frequently transport the MIL or another adult in addition to our two kids, so Mazda5 it would be for me, but no question the interior quality is better in the Forester, with more options on the 2.5i Convenience with the M/T, but at a steeper price, I think.

Thanks for your thoughts JY.  I suspect I will agree with your premise - the 5 is better for "family duty" with its sliding doors, more comfortable for 5 people (and option for 6), etc..  But the Forester offers a better interior (based on pics only, will have to check it out in person), plus AWD and WAY more ground clearance (220 mm vs 140 mm), albeit at a significantly higher price (Forester Touring 6MT vs 5 GT 6MT).  With the horrible, horrible snow clearing in S'toon, that extra ground clearance may tip the scales in the Foresters favour. OTOH, I haven't had significant problems with the Elantra Touring or the Spec V in winter (both with Blizzaks) - and the Spec V only had ~ 120 mm ground clearance!

My local Mazda/Subaru dealers are within a block of each other, so I'd love to do a back-to-back test...unfortuntately, neither one will stock M/Ts in those vehicles! (Well, Mazda may have a GS 6-speed in stock at some point.  Subaru already told me they won't bring a M/T Forester - but would happily accept my deposit for one...)

I'll have to return to the collective wisdom of the forum when I start kicking tires in person.  But I suspect JY is one of the few (if only) persons in Canada who has driven both the 2012+ Mazda5 and 2014 Forester in 6MT trims!

[sailor723]

In the specs given at the end of the review it refers to the 2.5 convenience pkg having a backup camera. They then list a backup camera again as part of the Eye Sight package available on the Limited.  Kind of confusing...do all Foresters other than base trim have a camera?

[jyarkony]

In the specs given at the end of the review it refers to the 2.5 convenience pkg having a backup camera. They then list a backup camera again as part of the Eye Sight package available on the Limited.  Kind of confusing...do all Foresters other than base trim have a camera?

Yeah, everything except the very base model has the back-up camera.

[johngenx]

I disagree entirely.  As for your Rav4, XLE AWD (volume model) in US is $25,690 and $29,200 in Canada.

Canadian base AWD is $25,990 vs $24,700 in the US.  The RAV pricing brings a lot of value to the base model as it offers an automatic, etc.

As for Subaru dealer quality, it seems to be very hit and miss.  Our dealers are very expensive ($120/hr labour) and parts are typically 2-3x the MSRP as well.  Yeah, it's possible to get a dino oil change for cheap, but there is a lot of pressure in the service department to increase the cost.  They have their own special service schedule that includes "inspections" at every service point, even the 6K oil change interval, raising the cost of the oil change to $150.  And I know they do nothing more than change the oil and glance at the underside when the car is up.  Hence, the "inspection."  BS.

Our local dealers also pad the crap out of the sticker price, raising it ~$3K.  I think $1K for freight/PDI would be a pretty fair price.  $3000 is stupid.  The PDI/freight charges on our 09 Corolla were $1100 and there were no admin fees or other BS adds.  It made it palatable to buy new.

That said, I think Subaru makes some pretty awesome products, and the new Forester is no exception.  The non-turbo has a clean exterior and the new interior is very nice.  I'd have to drive the CVT before I pass judgement on it.  The only reason I wouldn't buy a new one is the ridiculous pricing my local dealers use and their incredibly arrogant attitude.

[Northernridge]

From  the Subaru Canada website it appears that there is no discount for cash or zero (or near zero) financing. Given our special $5,000+ "only in Canada pricing premium" it seems like a US puchase is still at least worth considering. 

I was told at the Winnipeg Subaru store that the 14 Forester would likely be available with 4.5% purchase financing when it arrives in a few weeks.

[WRX_Pilot]

Still too bad Subaru couldn't toss the enthusiasts a bone and offer the 6MT with the XT    How much more expensive could it possibly be?  Kudos to them for not forcing you to take leather with the XT..

Guess I'll have to keep my 05 XT 5speed until it dies 

[blork]

Which competitor SUV were you trying to keep up with?

believe it or not, a GMC Terrain... I have no idea how that guy kept it on the road at that pace. he was bootin' it.

Good thing the road was closed to other traffic for your review! I know that stretch, and a lot of people use it for day trips with their families.

So is premium gas a requirement on this version?

[Trainman]

Thanks for a good review, and thanks for the nice comments about my neck of the woods (and the logs you saw on the logging trucks will all be re-planted, typically at a ratio of 4/5 to 1 that was on the truck, a nice renewable resource).

I like that the turbo is available in a lower trim level; I can see myself in an XT Touring in 3 years when our current Forester goes to our son.

Which competitor SUV were you trying to keep up with?

believe it or not, a GMC Terrain... I have no idea how that guy kept it on the road at that pace. he was bootin' it.

Good thing the road was closed to other traffic for your review! I know that stretch, and a lot of people use it for day trips with their families.

So is premium gas a requirement on this version?

They closed Highway 4?  No notice of that in the Port Alberni papers      And if you know the road, you can get along at a pretty good (if somewhat crazy) pace, even in a Terrain, or a 10 year old F350 CrewCab     Too bad there was no side trip to Bamfield, it is 90 kms of variable gravel that I can do in my Forester in a bit under 1 1/2 hrs with kids on board.  That would have been a good test of the AWD and slippery surface handling.

[sailor723]

From  the Subaru Canada website it appears that there is no discount for cash or zero (or near zero) financing. Given our special $5,000+ "only in Canada pricing premium" it seems like a US puchase is still at least worth considering. 

I was told at the Winnipeg Subaru store that the 14 Forester would likely be available with 4.5% purchase financing when it arrives in a few weeks.

SOC site is showing 4.9 with no discount for cash when you build a XT Ltd.  By comparison a new Santa Fe 2.0T SE with a similar 35K sticker is 0% or $2,000 discount for cash. When you look at a 60 month finance term the Santa Fe runs about $6,000 less in terms of total payments. Of course, with the Sub's traditionally high resale  you may get a good portion of that back.