Topic: Tire Review: Pirelli Winter IceControl Winter Tires

[Autos_Editor]

Winnipeg writer Haney Louka straps a set of Pirelli IceControl tires to his family wagon and extols the virtues of winter rubber in a market that lacks appreciation for the value of proper traction.

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[Winterpeg]

It's good to hear from fellow 'Pegger Haney.....How's the new VD "wagonmaster" performing in this crapola eh. As fellow Windy City North residents Northernridge, John Q (?) and a few others can vouche for, Winter is here to stay.
I must confess my current ride (Malibu) is NOT on snow tires due to $$$$, hope to correct this before next season of fluffy stuff.   

[mixmanmash]

There is one studded winter tire that won't damage surfaces and doesn't have increased noise - the Nokian Hakka 7s.  It's because Nokian factory studs these tires and they have a special air cushion behind the stud.  As well, the studs don't wear out as quickly as the tire shop studs.

[Northernridge]

Most balanced and complete article on auto.ca in AGES – Winnipeg contributers should be called upon more often. 

Actual I didn't really read the whole article...but it's freakin' great!

[Noto]

Great article - but quite frankly, I care less about "which" snow or winter tires people purchase, so long as more Canadians ACTUALLY BUY/USE THEM!

When I go out driving in the snow (and I usually don't unless I have to), it's not so much my driving that concerns me, but the number of rear-end collisions that may have been avoided by a proper set of snow tires (and of course, driver diligence).

My favourite quote regarding snowies:

"If they save your arse once, they've paid for themselves."

Smarten up people - if you live where the temperature drops below 7 degrees half of the year, buy the tires that have grip for it.

Also, remember that the cost of winter tires is offset by the fact that you don't have to replace your OEM all-seasons as quickly (that includes leases as well).

[canuckystan]

Ok, I ask that you please stop with these articles describing how winter tires are different - we all get that.

I would love to see a more sophisticated article that analyzes whether they actually make a statistical difference in terms of real-world crash data.  For example, what are Manitobans' crash rates as compared with Quebec?  Surely there have been studies of this.  I had a quick look at the Quebec stats pre and post winter tire law and the differences were very small, and I bet there are other confounding factors there as well.

There could be some counter-intuitive results.  For example, what if winter tires make drivers over-confident, increasing speed in harsh conditions?  We don't know because there is no analysis presented.  As an analogy, there are studies showing that laws against using a cell phone actually increase accident rates, as people are trying to hide their device while driving, looking down and to the right, rather than lifting the phone to eye level in order to avoid being seen by cops. 

It is too simplistic to say in absolute terms that winter tires are better for everyone involved without a more sophisticated look at the issue. 

I'm not denying the winter tire technology, but maybe Manitobans aren't idiots either.

[random006]

Ok, I ask that you please stop with these articles describing how winter tires are different - we all get that.

I would love to see a more sophisticated article that analyzes whether they actually make a statistical difference in terms of real-world crash data.  For example, what are Manitobans' crash rates as compared with Quebec?  Surely there have been studies of this.  I had a quick look at the Quebec stats pre and post winter tire law and the differences were very small, and I bet there are other confounding factors there as well.


It is too simplistic to say in absolute terms that winter tires are better for everyone involved without a more sophisticated look at the issue. 

I'm not denying the winter tire technology, but maybe Manitobans aren't idiots either.

Actually, the difference is huge.  The government only introduced the law after 90% of the population was already using snow tires.  That does eliminate that immediate "wow" factor some might have hoped to see.  All that means is that one must look deeper in the data.

The key element for me is to note that of the accidents reported, 40% of the cars involved/responsible had all season (or worse) mounted on their car.  That means that 10% of the population were implicated in 40% of the accidents!  Imagine if these cars had been equipped with proper winter tires.  Would they have eliminated all those accidents?  Probably not.  It would have cut down the number drastically, however.

As I said, huge.

[Northernridge]

Ok, I ask that you please stop with these articles describing how winter tires are different - we all get that.

I would love to see a more sophisticated article that analyzes whether they actually make a statistical difference in terms of real-world crash data.  For example, what are Manitobans' crash rates as compared with Quebec?  Surely there have been studies of this.  I had a quick look at the Quebec stats pre and post winter tire law and the differences were very small, and I bet there are other confounding factors there as well.

There could be some counter-intuitive results.  For example, what if winter tires make drivers over-confident, increasing speed in harsh conditions?  We don't know because there is no analysis presented.  As an analogy, there are studies showing that laws against using a cell phone actually increase accident rates, as people are trying to hide their device while driving, looking down and to the right, rather than lifting the phone to eye level in order to avoid being seen by cops. 

It is too simplistic to say in absolute terms that winter tires are better for everyone involved without a more sophisticated look at the issue. 

I'm not denying the winter tire technology, but maybe Manitobans aren't idiots either.

We're idiots all right...and love playing bumper cars in winter. We may not have hills but you should see how far we can slide sideways down the highway and into the ditch.

[Blueprint]

Haney, as a French-Canadian, I'd just like to point out that fiancé is a guy, while fiancée is a girl. I'm ok with both, free country and all, just thought I'd point that out 

[SaskSpecV]

Actually, the difference is huge.  The government only introduced the law after 90% of the population was already using snow tires.  That does eliminate that immediate "wow" factor some might have hoped to see.  All that means is that one must look deeper in the data.

The key element for me is to note that of the accidents reported, 40% of the cars involved/responsible had all season (or worse) mounted on their car.  That means that 10% of the population were implicated in 40% of the accidents!  Imagine if these cars had been equipped with proper winter tires.  Would they have eliminated all those accidents?  Probably not.  It would have cut down the number drastically, however.

As I said, huge.

Although the initial Quebec data gives the impression (which may indeed be "real") that winter tires cut down on accidents, we need to be careful in drawing assumptions from such retrospective data.  We CAN conclude that folks who used all-season tires accounted for a higher proportion of accidents (relative odds ratio).  We CANNOT conclude that winter tire use CAUSES less accidents (although this may well be the case, such data does NOT PROVE it).  Correlation versus causation.  There may be confounding factors that introduce significant bias into the analysis - i.e., maybe folks who don't buy winter tires are not as safety-conscious, and thus drive more recklessly...hence more accidents, even if winter tires were used.

To actually PROVE that winter tires reduce the number of accidents, we'd need to conduct a Prospective (not retrospective) experiment with two groups of drivers (one on winter tires, one on all-seasons).  Of course the experiment would have to be RANDOMIZED (no self-selection for winter tires), CONTROLLED and BLINDED (to minimize investigator bias), with tire group allocation stratified by driver age, vehicle type, driving distances, geographic location, etc.  So it ain't gonna happen then...

And if such an experiment were performed, my hypothesis is that winter tires would indeed result in a statistically significant difference (i.e. not due to chance) in accident rates...but I can't currently say this is PROVEN, at least from the available Quebec data.

[Ace]

Ok, I ask that you please stop with these articles describing how winter tires are different - we all get that.

I would love to see a more sophisticated article that analyzes whether they actually make a statistical difference in terms of real-world crash data.  For example, what are Manitobans' crash rates as compared with Quebec?  Surely there have been studies of this.  I had a quick look at the Quebec stats pre and post winter tire law and the differences were very small, and I bet there are other confounding factors there as well.

There could be some counter-intuitive results.  For example, what if winter tires make drivers over-confident, increasing speed in harsh conditions?  We don't know because there is no analysis presented.  As an analogy, there are studies showing that laws against using a cell phone actually increase accident rates, as people are trying to hide their device while driving, looking down and to the right, rather than lifting the phone to eye level in order to avoid being seen by cops. 

It is too simplistic to say in absolute terms that winter tires are better for everyone involved without a more sophisticated look at the issue. 

I'm not denying the winter tire technology, but maybe Manitobans aren't idiots either.

Hey Canukystan, I hope you really don't believe that snow tires could cause a driver to be over confident and drive too fast. If you do,I suggest you stay very close to the Pacific and not attempt driving on the white frozen stuff that you might encounter if you head to the mountains or the prairies

[dkaz]

The article was a tire review on Pirelli IceControl tires.

The tires weren't mentioned until three-quarters into the article.

[canuckystan]

A quote from the Traffic Injury Research Foundation study on winter tire use and effectiveness:

"More precisely, the question whether this apparent advantage of superior performance of winter tires in winter conditions translates into fewer collisions, injuries and
fatalities remains largely unanswered."

My point exactly.  Sure, they perform better and make you feel "safe" but whether they translate into fewer collisions is as yet unanswered.

A Porsche performs better than my sedan, doesn't mean it is safer.

[dkaz]

You stop sooner with winter tires for sure, but it's definitely still longer than if you had summer tires on bare pavement at 22C. Winter tires are therefore just one part of the equation, drivers need to know how much traction their vehicles have and drive accordingly.

[Noto]

Great article - but quite frankly, I care less about "which" snow or winter tires people purchase, so long as more Canadians ACTUALLY BUY/USE THEM!

When I go out driving in the snow (and I usually don't unless I have to), it's not so much my driving that concerns me, but the number of rear-end collisions that may have been avoided by a proper set of snow tires (and of course, driver diligence).

My favourite quote regarding snowies:

"If they save your arse once, they've paid for themselves."

Smarten up people - if you live where the temperature drops below 7 degrees half of the year, buy the tires that have grip for it.

Also, remember that the cost of winter tires is offset by the fact that you don't have to replace your OEM all-seasons as quickly (that includes leases as well).

+1 *infinity +1

[HeliDriver]

You brought this back from the dead just to +1 *infinity +1 yourself. 

[Fobroader]

You brought this back from the dead just to +1 *infinity +1 yourself. 

 

[PJ]

Ok, I ask that you please stop with these articles describing how winter tires are different - we all get that.

I would love to see a more sophisticated article that analyzes whether they actually make a statistical difference in terms of real-world crash data.  For example, what are Manitobans' crash rates as compared with Quebec?  Surely there have been studies of this.  I had a quick look at the Quebec stats pre and post winter tire law and the differences were very small, and I bet there are other confounding factors there as well.

There could be some counter-intuitive results.  For example, what if winter tires make drivers over-confident, increasing speed in harsh conditions?  We don't know because there is no analysis presented.  As an analogy, there are studies showing that laws against using a cell phone actually increase accident rates, as people are trying to hide their device while driving, looking down and to the right, rather than lifting the phone to eye level in order to avoid being seen by cops. 

It is too simplistic to say in absolute terms that winter tires are better for everyone involved without a more sophisticated look at the issue. 

I'm not denying the winter tire technology, but maybe Manitobans aren't idiots either.

Hey Canukystan, I hope you really don't believe that snow tires could cause a driver to be over confident and drive too fast. If you do,I suggest you stay very close to the Pacific and not attempt driving on the white frozen stuff that you might encounter if you head to the mountains or the prairies

I hear people accuse SUV drivers of that all the time.   Better tires give you more grip and confidence and there is no reason to not believe  people will drive faster in has weather with them. 

[Angry Chicken]

You brought this back from the dead just to +1 *infinity +1 yourself. 

In fairness, this article is reposted on the front page of the autos.ca site and unless someone looked at the timestamp of the last post carefully they wouldn't know it wasn't a new thread.

I had to LOL again over DKaz's comment a couple of posts back though.  To be honest, as a "review" this sucks and (I'm sorry to say) is typical of the reviews from this guy.  It amounts to "gee these tires are better than all-seasons and every Winnipeger should have 'em".  Wow, I'm going to rush out and buy a set.

[RayT]

Yeah, I don’t like these “reviews” either. They don’t tell me much about which winter tire to buy

The best objective analysis of the value of winter tires is still the old C&D article http://www.caranddriver.com/features/winter-traction-test-what-price-traction

They tested all season vs winter tires with a set of FWD and RWD vs AWD version of the same vehicle. You know exactly what FWD, RWD and AWD brings to the table with and without winter tires.

Meanwhile, I'll have to go to Consumer reports to figure out which winter tires I should be buying this season