Topic: What Motorcycle Have You Been Obsessing About Today?

[rrocket]

The 250 XCW is more high strung than the 300. The 300 you can ride in the bottom 1/3 of the throttle.  Weight has to be within a pound or two and same chassis. If you are looking for judt mellow cruising all of them are probably overkill and $$$ (although they cruise great). Perhaps like Rockett said way back the WR250?

edit: Yikes when did WRs become so expensive? After all this fun bike shopping. Buy the Beta 200RR. (same money) Can't go wrong with light. If you are bigger I still think the 300 is more suitable. Sit on the 200 and if it feels right go for it. Do get it resprung though if you fall outside the spec. Don't forget to post pics.

Agree about 300 vs 250. Torque of 300 is appreciated in slow stuff. 3rd gear is fantastic..works damn near off idle until quick single track speeds. It's hard to fully appreciate how awesome that is until you try it. Basically one gear and just surf the power/torque. And by the sounds of it, the FI response is spot on everywhere. Really tough to beat IMO. Can't wait to try FI!

Sounds like his heart is set on Beta...so that's what he should buy. Truth be told...we're probably splitting hairs, as all will suit his needs. It becomes preference...and I'd prefer the delivery of the 300. I mean, I'd be happy with a Beta I'm sure...but would eventually want the 300 for how it rides. I think Bob's only disadvantage at this point is probably not a ton of seat time on a 2 stroke...so our engine behavior description between a 200 vs 300 might not register 100 percent. And since it's a 2 stroke...it's hard to appreciate these aspects unless you've ridden one. FWIW, I bet the absolute HP difference between the KTM 250 and 300 is less than 5hp. But how they ride/deliver the power is markedly different.

His weight falls within useable range of stock shocks...unless he turned into a fatty since the last time I saw him.

Just be sure to change your name to Beta Bob!

[Triple Bob]

The 250 XCW is more high strung than the 300. The 300 you can ride in the bottom 1/3 of the throttle.  Weight has to be within a pound or two and same chassis. If you are looking for judt mellow cruising all of them are probably overkill and $$$ (although they cruise great). Perhaps like Rockett said way back the WR250?

edit: Yikes when did WRs become so expensive? After all this fun bike shopping. Buy the Beta 200RR. (same money) Can't go wrong with light. If you are bigger I still think the 300 is more suitable. Sit on the 200 and if it feels right go for it. Do get it resprung though if you fall outside the spec. Don't forget to post pics.

Agree about 300 vs 250. Torque of 300 is appreciated in slow stuff. 3rd gear is fantastic..works damn near off idle until quick single track speeds. It's hard to fully appreciate how awesome that is until you try it. Basically one gear and just surf the power/torque. And by the sounds of it, the FI response is spot on everywhere. Really tough to beat IMO. Can't wait to try FI!

Sounds like his heart is set on Beta...so that's what he should buy. Truth be told...we're probably splitting hairs, as all will suit his needs. It becomes preference...and I'd prefer the delivery of the 300. I mean, I'd be happy with a Beta I'm sure...but would eventually want the 300 for how it rides. I think Bob's only disadvantage at this point is probably not a ton of seat time on a 2 stroke...so our engine behavior description between a 200 vs 300 might not register 100 percent. And since it's a 2 stroke...it's hard to appreciate these aspects unless you've ridden one. FWIW, I bet the absolute HP difference between the KTM 250 and 300 is less than 5hp. But how they ride/deliver the power is markedly different.

His weight falls within useable range of stock shocks...unless he turned into a fatty since the last time I saw him.

Just be sure to change your name to Beta Bob!

My heart isn't set on anything, that's why I'm asking for advice. My problem with the 300 is that I think it's overkill for what I want. I think I'd never use all the throttle, unlike you two, who are way more experienced than me, and would want something faster. 

If you read/watch the reviews of the Beta 200 RR, the overwhelming feedback is that is has lots of low down torque, and not enough power in the mid range and top end to make it difficult to ride. I like the sound of that. So if you can recommend something similar from another brand I'm all ears.

If the KTM XCW 300 also has that character, then I can't find a review that says that. But again, open to ideas.

The Yamaha WR250F I'm guessing is ~270 with a full tank of fuel, about 30lbs heavier than the Beta or KTM.

Watch this review: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TqdPEPgk9g

SO is there anything from another manufacturer (2020 models) that you could rate the same or better?

[me_2]

Just by curiosity, is any feedback from amateur on electric dirt bike, like the Zero FX ?

https://www.zeromotorcycles.com/en-ca/model/zero-fx

The KTM FreeRide is probably the most popular...guys have raced these against gas bikes and done well.

Recently, I started paying attention to this: https://motorino.ca/sur-ron

Videos of guys racing these against real dirt bikes...and doing well. One guy won his class. 45-50mph, 50-70 mile range. This would make for an amusing rig IMO....especially single track.  And the price is right! MTB/motorcycle hybrid and only 110lbs!

I think this would be a hoot....and this particular machine more than any other I have read about has changed the minds of motorcycle riders about going electric. These guys bought the old (first) version and fell in love with it. https://www.webbikeworld.com/sur-ron-light-bee-review/

And if I'm honest....I wouldn't mind owning one for goofing off on.


How about it, Bob?

Thanks for the links.

That in between thing ("the Sur Ron is as close to the perfect motorized two-wheeler that fits right between a full-suspension mountain bike and a small displacement ICE (Internal Combustion Engine) bike.") seem promising for the asked price. Not interested at this time but who knows in far far away future ...

[ktm525]

If you have the cash and want a high end trail bike the selection is very limited. With weight being a major concern and dirt only and living in Canada I would lean towards a two stroke.

There are only three manufacturers : KTM, Husky, Beta.

1) If you want lighter and perhaps friendlier the Beta 200RR

2) If you want larger (only about 5lbs more) then the 300. You could look at the 250 but outside of a few CC's they are very similar to the 300.

3) Of course if you want a fancier KTM then look at the Husky.

That is all there is. Without sounding like a broken record I would not be nervous of a 300. The power delivery is enduro like, and  it is not out to kill you like a SX or CR500  . It is designed to be ridden partial throttle, that is where it is best. It can but does not like to scream WFO. There is a reason it is by far the post popular bush bike for older gentlemen with money. That being said there is nothing wrong with the Beta. It's small chassis should make it a ball in the real tight stuff.  The only thing is will it be around long term? Less of a concern with the interwebs. You can find KTM parts everywhere and many are interchangeable from bikes made 15 years ago.

[Triple Bob]

If you have the cash and want a high end trail bike the selection is very limited. With weight being a major concern and dirt only and living in Canada I would lean towards a two stroke.

There are only three manufacturers : KTM, Husky, Beta.

1) If you want lighter and perhaps friendlier the Beta 200RR

2) If you want larger (only about 5lbs more) then the 300. You could look at the 250 but outside of a few CC's they are very similar to the 300.

3) Of course if you want a fancier KTM then look at the Husky.

That is all there is. Without sounding like a broken record I would not be nervous of a 300. The power delivery is enduro like, and  it is not out to kill you like a SX or CR500  . It is designed to be ridden partial throttle, that is where it is best. It can but does not like to scream WFO. There is a reason it is by far the post popular bush bike for older gentlemen with money. That being said there is nothing wrong with the Beta. It's small chassis should make it a ball in the real tight stuff.  The only thing is will it be around long term? Less of a concern with the interwebs. You can find KTM parts everywhere and many are interchangeable from bikes made 15 years ago.

Assuming the weight is the same/similar. What is the main difference in feel between a 2 stroke and a 4 stroke. I can't remember ever riding a 2 stroke, so I am a bit nervous about the leap.  I always assumed it was weight, but the current 4 strokes are pretty light. 

Remember I'm coming from a CRF250L, so EVERYTHING will feel super light.

[ktm525]

If you have the cash and want a high end trail bike the selection is very limited. With weight being a major concern and dirt only and living in Canada I would lean towards a two stroke.

There are only three manufacturers : KTM, Husky, Beta.

1) If you want lighter and perhaps friendlier the Beta 200RR

2) If you want larger (only about 5lbs more) then the 300. You could look at the 250 but outside of a few CC's they are very similar to the 300.

3) Of course if you want a fancier KTM then look at the Husky.

That is all there is. Without sounding like a broken record I would not be nervous of a 300. The power delivery is enduro like, and  it is not out to kill you like a SX or CR500  . It is designed to be ridden partial throttle, that is where it is best. It can but does not like to scream WFO. There is a reason it is by far the post popular bush bike for older gentlemen with money. That being said there is nothing wrong with the Beta. It's small chassis should make it a ball in the real tight stuff.  The only thing is will it be around long term? Less of a concern with the interwebs. You can find KTM parts everywhere and many are interchangeable from bikes made 15 years ago.

Assuming the weight is the same/similar. What is the main difference in feel between a 2 stroke and a 4 stroke. I can't remember ever riding a 2 stroke, so I am a bit nervous about the leap.  I always assumed it was weight, but the current 4 strokes are pretty light. 

Remember I'm coming from a CRF250L, so EVERYTHING will feel super light.

Less reciprocating mass of the engine makes the bike easy to tip over and change direction. Ignoring the KTMs injection system 2 strokes have less maintenance. A top end refresh (piston, rings , wrist pin and bearings ) is quite cheap and simple compared to doing a top end on a 4 stroke. Less mass and power on every 2nd stroke means the engine tends to respond quicker as well. The 2 stroke engine is also smaller so it can be placed into a smaller chassis. You get more HP per CC with the 2 stroke so the 200 Beta is probably equivalent to a 300 4 stroke. A 300 2 stroke is pretty close to a 450cc 4 stroke in power etc. 4 stokes rev up slower and tend to have nice low end torque.

That would be about it. I'll try to sling a leg over a Beta and see if I can finagle a ride in the next month (if conditions dry)

[dirtyjeffer]

Just by curiosity, is any feedback from amateur on electric dirt bike, like the Zero FX ?

https://www.zeromotorcycles.com/en-ca/model/zero-fx

The KTM FreeRide is probably the most popular...guys have raced these against gas bikes and done well.

Recently, I started paying attention to this: https://motorino.ca/sur-ron

Videos of guys racing these against real dirt bikes...and doing well. One guy won his class. 45-50mph, 50-70 mile range. This would make for an amusing rig IMO....especially single track.  And the price is right! MTB/motorcycle hybrid and only 110lbs!

I think this would be a hoot....and this particular machine more than any other I have read about has changed the minds of motorcycle riders about going electric. These guys bought the old (first) version and fell in love with it. https://www.webbikeworld.com/sur-ron-light-bee-review/

And if I'm honest....I wouldn't mind owning one for goofing off on.


How about it, Bob?

Thanks for the links.

That in between thing ("the Sur Ron is as close to the perfect motorized two-wheeler that fits right between a full-suspension mountain bike and a small displacement ICE (Internal Combustion Engine) bike.") seem promising for the asked price. Not interested at this time but who knows in far far away future ...

they make a LSM as well (for road use)...it actually looks pretty nice:

[dkaz]

they make a LSM as well (for road use)...it actually looks pretty nice:

Funny I was just looking at those. As low as $3185 after BC EV rebate for the Super Soco TC that has eABS brakes. Maximum speed 70 km/h but it probably does a lot better going up hills than a 49cc gasser.

[rrocket]

My heart isn't set on anything, that's why I'm asking for advice. My problem with the 300 is that I think it's overkill for what I want. I think I'd never use all the throttle, unlike you two, who are way more experienced than me, and would want something faster. 

If you read/watch the reviews of the Beta 200 RR, the overwhelming feedback is that is has lots of low down torque, and not enough power in the mid range and top end to make it difficult to ride.

I think, if possible, you need to try the 200 and the 300. Those seem to be the candidates at this point.

 We both feel, due to the delivery on the 300, that it will not overwhelm you. I personally find such a power delivery easy to ride (one gear, open close throttle as needed) rather than tap dancing on the shifter of a less powerful bike. Perhaps I'll flip through some videos tonight and hopefully there will be some using this technique. It will certainly illustrate it better than I'm trying to explain.

And while yes, we have experience over you...it won't be long until you'll be proficient enough where you'll be well beyond beginner and likely want something more powerful anyways IMO. Always seems to happen with bikes.

Although like I pointed out...the jump in power isn't as massive as you think it's going to be.

And KTMs 2 vs 4 stroke description was quite good! [emoji106]

[HeliDriver]

^^ Not disagreeing, but wanted to mention that neither the 150 nor 200RR are “beginner” bikes. Sure, people always figure they need more power, but a guy could work on skills and progress all the way past expert level on either bike.

I remember reading a profile a while ago about an older enduro legend (think it was Malcolm Smith?) whose current bike of choice was the KTM 150. Just a fun, light, snappy bike, with plenty of power (provided you have the skills to make the best use of it.)

[rrocket]

^^ Not disagreeing, but wanted to mention that neither the 150 nor 200RR are “beginner” bikes. Sure, people always figure they need more power, but a guy could work on skills and progress all the way past expert level on either bike.

I remember reading a profile a while ago about an older enduro legend (think it was Malcolm Smith?) whose current bike of choice was the KTM 150. Just a fun, light, snappy bike, with plenty of power (provided you have the skills to make the best use of it.)

100 percent agree.

I certainly couldn't exploit the absolute limits of what's possible on a 150 in the woods. Nor will I ever.

My preference for the 300 has little to do with my skill or any real shortcomings of a the mentioned smaller bikes...more of a preference for riding style and how the character of the bikes go about their business. The larger bike feels more "relaxed" to me..if that makes sense. I think KTM525 and Heli might know what I mean. Or not. LOL

Funny...I prefer a "smaller" bike on the streets these days (690 single for example)...but off road I prefer the "larger" bike (in this case 300cc 2 stroke).

[ktm525]

^^ Not disagreeing, but wanted to mention that neither the 150 nor 200RR are “beginner” bikes. Sure, people always figure they need more power, but a guy could work on skills and progress all the way past expert level on either bike.

I remember reading a profile a while ago about an older enduro legend (think it was Malcolm Smith?) whose current bike of choice was the KTM 150. Just a fun, light, snappy bike, with plenty of power (provided you have the skills to make the best use of it.)

Malcolm Smith is tiny. Maybe 5'6" and 120lbs? Especially now. Awesome rider.

It sounds like the Triple Bob is not confined to a budget so he might as well buy the good stuff. Much like an average driver can still feel the benfits of a performance car like a 911  (brakes, handling etc).  He may not access all of it right away but the bike won't hold him back either. I think all riders would appreciate a lightweight performance bike after piloting around heavier rides.

[rrocket]

This is what I was talking about re: 3rd gear on the KTM 300. Hard to find videos specific to this. This is how I like to ride in the tight stuff...and find it easier and less tiring than something more high strung or less torquey. YMMV. Typically 2 strokes don't like lugging like this...but the 300 does this wonderfully and feels closer to 4 stroke riding technique.

Last video just for fun...idling aground in 3rd gear.

Hope this makes more sense to what I was talking about as I have a hard time putting it into words.

https://youtu.be/SrLODGhC-Vs

https://youtu.be/HgYWz1uJa9E


https://youtu.be/1PjTm28FIJo

[rrocket]

.  He may not access all of it right away but the bike won't hold him back either. I think all riders would appreciate a lightweight performance bike after piloting around heavier rides.

Also agree. I have no doubt Bob can "grow" into a more potent bike and not be in over his head while still learning on it.

The first time I saw him on a bike it was a CBR250..and the next thing I know he's on a 900 with a beast of an engine. The jump from 200RR to 300XCW is far less dramatic than that.

I think now it's up to throwing a leg over each and seeing which one tugs at his wallet more.

Either way he chooses, he'll have a huge grin on his face and be hooked.

[ktm525]

Same guy same track on a 500 XCW for comparison. Listen to the comments. Bang on.  But he is biased.

Now he can always uncork it for 20 more HP! 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9yZANeRoOg

[rrocket]

Same guy same track on a 500 XCW for comparison. Listen to the comments. Bang on.  But he is biased.

Now he can always uncork it for 20 more HP! 

No argument here..great bike!

But it felt big to me and would tire me out for sure on single track. Also, I am old. LOL

But yea...if you want something more dual use..this plus a set of motard wheels would fit the bill.

[Triple Bob]

My heart isn't set on anything, that's why I'm asking for advice. My problem with the 300 is that I think it's overkill for what I want. I think I'd never use all the throttle, unlike you two, who are way more experienced than me, and would want something faster. 

If you read/watch the reviews of the Beta 200 RR, the overwhelming feedback is that is has lots of low down torque, and not enough power in the mid range and top end to make it difficult to ride.

I think, if possible, you need to try the 200 and the 300. Those seem to be the candidates at this point.

 We both feel, due to the delivery on the 300, that it will not overwhelm you. I personally find such a power delivery easy to ride (one gear, open close throttle as needed) rather than tap dancing on the shifter of a less powerful bike. Perhaps I'll flip through some videos tonight and hopefully there will be some using this technique. It will certainly illustrate it better than I'm trying to explain.

And while yes, we have experience over you...it won't be long until you'll be proficient enough where you'll be well beyond beginner and likely want something more powerful anyways IMO. Always seems to happen with bikes.

Although like I pointed out...the jump in power isn't as massive as you think it's going to be.

And KTMs 2 vs 4 stroke description was quite good! [emoji106]

OK, let's say I'm sold on a KTM 300, what about XC vs XC-W? I'm thinking XC-W, due to the lower ratio 1 & 2, and the plusher forks.

[HeliDriver]

^^ Yeah, XC-W. For those reasons, plus you get the no-linkage rear suspension. Doesn’t get hung up on logs, and it’s easier to maintain.

[rrocket]

My heart isn't set on anything, that's why I'm asking for advice. My problem with the 300 is that I think it's overkill for what I want. I think I'd never use all the throttle, unlike you two, who are way more experienced than me, and would want something faster. 

If you read/watch the reviews of the Beta 200 RR, the overwhelming feedback is that is has lots of low down torque, and not enough power in the mid range and top end to make it difficult to ride.

I think, if possible, you need to try the 200 and the 300. Those seem to be the candidates at this point.

 We both feel, due to the delivery on the 300, that it will not overwhelm you. I personally find such a power delivery easy to ride (one gear, open close throttle as needed) rather than tap dancing on the shifter of a less powerful bike. Perhaps I'll flip through some videos tonight and hopefully there will be some using this technique. It will certainly illustrate it better than I'm trying to explain.

And while yes, we have experience over you...it won't be long until you'll be proficient enough where you'll be well beyond beginner and likely want something more powerful anyways IMO. Always seems to happen with bikes.

Although like I pointed out...the jump in power isn't as massive as you think it's going to be.

And KTMs 2 vs 4 stroke description was quite good! [emoji106]

OK, let's say I'm sold on a KTM 300, what about XC vs XC-W? I'm thinking XC-W, due to the lower ratio 1 & 2, and the plusher forks.

You are correct. That's the one better suited to your needs.

[Triple Bob]

My heart isn't set on anything, that's why I'm asking for advice. My problem with the 300 is that I think it's overkill for what I want. I think I'd never use all the throttle, unlike you two, who are way more experienced than me, and would want something faster. 

If you read/watch the reviews of the Beta 200 RR, the overwhelming feedback is that is has lots of low down torque, and not enough power in the mid range and top end to make it difficult to ride.

I think, if possible, you need to try the 200 and the 300. Those seem to be the candidates at this point.

 We both feel, due to the delivery on the 300, that it will not overwhelm you. I personally find such a power delivery easy to ride (one gear, open close throttle as needed) rather than tap dancing on the shifter of a less powerful bike. Perhaps I'll flip through some videos tonight and hopefully there will be some using this technique. It will certainly illustrate it better than I'm trying to explain.

And while yes, we have experience over you...it won't be long until you'll be proficient enough where you'll be well beyond beginner and likely want something more powerful anyways IMO. Always seems to happen with bikes.

Although like I pointed out...the jump in power isn't as massive as you think it's going to be.

And KTMs 2 vs 4 stroke description was quite good! [emoji106]

OK, let's say I'm sold on a KTM 300, what about XC vs XC-W? I'm thinking XC-W, due to the lower ratio 1 & 2, and the plusher forks.

You are correct. That's the one better suited to your needs.

Done. I wonder if there will be some good deals on 2020's at the end of this year...