Author Topic: Feature: Winter Tires vs. All-Season Tires  (Read 70580 times)

Offline johngenx

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Feature: Winter Tires vs. All-Season Tires
« Reply #140 on: December 31, 2012, 02:31:14 pm »
I'd love to drive my Miata in the winter. A light RWD car is a blast in the snow. However, the winter here would destroy my pristine little car. The baseball sized rocks and salt would tear all the paint off in no time...

Offline dirtyjeffer

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Re: Feature: Winter Tires vs. All-Season Tires
« Reply #141 on: January 01, 2013, 10:24:22 am »
No, you still want skinnier tires, it is marketing hype.  No matter how advanced the tire, physics cannot be overcome.  A wide tire produces a snowshoe affect that keeps the tire on top of loose snow.  Gripping snow is great, but if you can't get down to the hard packed stuff, you are going nowhere.  You have to look no further than a modern rally car set-up for winter driving.  They have spikes (even grippier) yet, still want the skinniest tire possible.


the issue is ice...if you were to drive on a skating rink, you would want the proper sized tires...yes, in deep snow, the skinnier tire (skinny winter tire) would dig down better, but as long as your sizes aren't really far apart, there shouldn't be much of a difference (195s vs 205s for example)...when you are driving in real world conditions (not rally car), and you hit a patch of ice at an intersection, you want as much sticky rubber gripping that surface as possible...no, you don't want 255s, but an appropriate sized tire is good.
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Offline Oldsguy

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Re: Feature: Winter Tires vs. All-Season Tires
« Reply #142 on: January 02, 2013, 03:51:54 pm »
I second that. My old Yokohama iceGuard iG20s with less aggressive tread pattern but softer compound was superior to my current Toyo Observe G02 Plus which has an aggressive tread pattern but harder compound. It's still soft in freezing temperatures but not as much as my Yokohamas which still felt sticky.

I don't know what the evolution of the Blizzak WS is but this is the Michelin X-Ice's:

Xi1 - good in snow, not so much on ice
Xi2 - a huge leap forward in ice traction, a few steps back in snow traction
Xi3 - a return to good snow traction while maintaining good ice traction.

I have a set of Xi2 on steel rims on my car now and really like them. They are actually preferable in terms of ride quality and road noise to the standard Michelin Pilot HX MXM4.
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Offline rrocket

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Re: Re: Re: Feature: Winter Tires vs. All-Season Tires
« Reply #143 on: January 02, 2013, 06:54:45 pm »
It sounds like winter tires are good for one season and then are as slippery as hell. From a user post on this thread. How can that ever be a viable option? 4 months and dump.
You should easily get 4 winters out of a set.....what are you doing that they only last a season?!?!?!?!?
You know how Rupert is, he's always doing burnouts and drifting.  Wears tires out fast.  ;D
I think this is our 4th season with the Dunlop DS-3

The Blizzaks ws-60 that I have on the RX-8 were grippy during the first winter.
On the 2nd or 3rd season, the stickiness was gone.

Don't get me wrong the Blizzaks are still usuable as a winter tire.
They are good SNOW tires; just not really ICE tires.

Actually he's right. We had same issue with ours. I found out later that the winter compound sat on top of a more normal compound, and once gone you essentially had all seasons on.

Have not had this issue with Xice and live them. Getting 4 season plus from them
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Offline rrocket

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Re: Re: Feature: Winter Tires vs. All-Season Tires
« Reply #144 on: January 02, 2013, 06:55:21 pm »
I second that. My old Yokohama iceGuard iG20s with less aggressive tread pattern but softer compound was superior to my current Toyo Observe G02 Plus which has an aggressive tread pattern but harder compound. It's still soft in freezing temperatures but not as much as my Yokohamas which still felt sticky.

I don't know what the evolution of the Blizzak WS is but this is the Michelin X-Ice's:

Xi1 - good in snow, not so much on ice
Xi2 - a huge leap forward in ice traction, a few steps back in snow traction
Xi3 - a return to good snow traction while maintaining good ice traction.

I have a set of Xi2 on steel rims on my car now and really like them. They are actually preferable in terms of ride quality and road noise to the standard Michelin Pilot HX MXM4.

Yep....we love ours too!

Offline rrocket

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Re: Re: Feature: Winter Tires vs. All-Season Tires
« Reply #145 on: January 02, 2013, 08:55:29 pm »
Yup, the Xice in the MDX are insanely good. Just an unbelievable winter tire (as long as you aren't doing 140+). Seriously, I can pretty much drive all out on ice and snow and they just grip....uphill, downhill, whatever......

I'd have to say of all the tires I've owned (summer, all season, winter) the Xice exceeded expectations more than any other tire. It's just an amazing tire.

Offline dkaz

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Feature: Winter Tires vs. All-Season Tires
« Reply #146 on: January 02, 2013, 10:41:20 pm »
Ok, the X-Ice is on my shopping list for this autumn. :) thanks.

Offline Julie

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Re: Feature: Winter Tires vs. All-Season Tires
« Reply #147 on: January 02, 2013, 11:28:00 pm »
Another vote for X-Ice (had them before). Fantastic tire.

Offline Julie

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Re: Feature: Winter Tires vs. All-Season Tires
« Reply #148 on: January 02, 2013, 11:43:23 pm »
Moderately worn snows that still had their sipes on them would out perform the best, brand-new all season on the market guaranteed.  It is the rubber compound and sipes that make all the difference.

And the FWD-is-better-in-winter is a bit of old world wisdom.  Back when cars had 1000 lbs V8's sitting on the front end that sent 400 lb-ft of torque to the rear wheels, the FWD econoboxe alternatives with no power seemed like winter champs (because they were in comparison).

Many factors contribute to a great winter vehicle.  First and foremost it is tires.  Next it is tread width - skinnier the better on ice and snow.  Then drivetrain, with AWD being the best.  Finally, it is power.  You actually want less power in the snow.  More power just induces wheel spin.

Here is a bold statement - I would put my rear-wheel drive 1990 Miata up against ANY 2-wheel drive vehicle in ANY wintery condition up to roughly 20-25 cm of snow.  I have drive dozens of vehicles with winter tires on and have never driven anything this controllable in the white stuff; that includes my 2010 Subaru WRX.  The little Mazda would perform as well or better I bet.

We got 18 cm of snow on boxing day and before the plows came out I was buzzing around the neighborhood with my Sailun (Chinese) winter tires on.  I have never driven anyhting that has this much bite and grip in the corners in deep snow, light snow and ice.  Also, even though it lacks ABS, it brakes amazingly in the snow most likely due to its weight (or lack there of).

I was doing circles around my sisters FWD 2011 Hyundai Santa Fe V6.  With 276 hp trying to go though the front wheels equipped with all season tires, the crossover wouldn't grip.  Even with traction control, stability control and ABS brakes, her vehicle wanted to do nothing but slide straight off the road.  My car lacking all electronic 'aides' easily out cornered it.

Acceleration is no issue, form a dead stop, in 20 cm of tire-track-riddled snow thanks in part to the low power output and mechanical rear differential that is always looking for the wheel with the most grip.

I even had 3 other cars with me to test against the Miata when it snowed - The Subaru XV Crosstrek, Porshce Boxster and Suzuki SX4 Sedan.  All had snow tires.  The XV with AWD, low power and high ground clearance was the best in the snow, but it still does not go around corners as well as the Miata.  None of the four vehicles gave me any issues in the snow, and I never got stuck.  I would say the ranking would go: XV, Miata, SX4, Boxster.

And here I thought I was crazy thinking about an itsy-bitsy, not-so-pretty, little miata beater for next winter... This post is a "sign"!!

Anyways, thanks for the informative post. :)

EDITED to add:

   The FR-S is a rear wheel drive light car, is it not; with a lower proportion of weight over the driving wheels. Nice car and I like it but not the best configuration for winter traction. The all season tires would have pulled it out probably, if it were FWD.
I don't know how much of an improvement...say ice tires...would be in a similar situation of deep snow. Maybe a couple of sacks of cement over the rear axle and keep the gas tank full.
   All Season is not marketing hype. Before the soft rubber siped ice tires were developed, the 'All Season' became an option to having summer tires and switching to winter 'nobblies'. When radial tires became the norm they were found to be quite acceptable with FWD cars; knobblies not offering much inprovement. This in a time when getting going was the important winter aspect; not driving at higher speed in icy conditions. From reading this thread one wonders how much better, if any, a set of winter tires with a few years of use on them...would be than a new set of good all season with a good (for the class) snow rating.
   


Here is a bold statement - I would put my rear-wheel drive 1990 Miata up against ANY 2-wheel drive vehicle in ANY wintery condition up to roughly 20-25 cm of snow.

Somebody out east take him up on that. Doesn't matter who wins...it would make for a popular thread afterwards.  :)

I wish I was closer to James.  His Yaris with its skinny tires, low power and light weight (plus great driver) would make the best comparison.  You know what...it might be worth a trip to Ottawa for a story...

Would be like a Canadian pond hockey tournament. Not reckless or dangerous but an actual 'test' of safe winter handling and traction to debunk/confirm myths and facts. But positioned as a grudge match for marketing effect.

Molson could sponsor it.

I like it!

Somebody make this happen please...
« Last Edit: January 02, 2013, 11:48:09 pm by Julie »

Offline dirtyjeffer

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Re: Feature: Winter Tires vs. All-Season Tires
« Reply #149 on: January 03, 2013, 02:22:58 pm »
i have XI2s and now WS70s on the other car...i have been very happy with the XI2s and so far so good with the WS70s...

Offline Arctic_White

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Re: Feature: Winter Tires vs. All-Season Tires
« Reply #150 on: August 13, 2013, 10:53:37 pm »
It's winter tire time again.

Read through this thread and noticed that Michelin X-ice is by far the preferred choice.

Anyone heard of Hakkapeliitta  R2?

This review below claims that the Hakka R2 are the best tires ever.
http://tires.about.com/od/Tire_Reviews/fr/Review-Nokian-Hakkapeliitta-R2.htm

Checked Kal Tire and they're $17 per tire more expensive than Michelin X-ice 3s. 

I'm now debating whether Hakka R2 are worth the small premium over X-ice 3?

Offline johngenx

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Re: Feature: Winter Tires vs. All-Season Tires
« Reply #151 on: August 13, 2013, 11:56:20 pm »
I'm a Blizzak slappy because they've given me amazing winter service over very difficult winter mountain roads.  The new WS-70's are on our Forester and Corolla, and they're superb.

Offline Sir Osis of Liver

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Re: Feature: Winter Tires vs. All-Season Tires
« Reply #152 on: August 14, 2013, 12:03:06 am »
I had WS-70s on the Outback 3.6R. It was an unbeatable combo.
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Offline quadzilla

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Re: Feature: Winter Tires vs. All-Season Tires
« Reply #153 on: August 14, 2013, 07:24:14 am »
Anyone heard of Hakkapeliitta  R2?

This review below claims that the Hakka R2 are the best tires ever.
http://tires.about.com/od/Tire_Reviews/fr/Review-Nokian-Hakkapeliitta-R2.htm

Would be nice if they used some real stats to show that claim.

Offline Scarecrow

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Winter Tires vs All-Season Tires - which are best for summer driving?
« Reply #154 on: August 14, 2013, 09:27:54 am »
Every day I see people driving around with winter tires on, even though it's the middle of summer.

To wit, heading home from work last night I pulled up alongside a guy in his Nissan Versa hatchback.  His car wore four Goodyear Nordic tires.  Completely worn out.  I couldn't help but wonder: Do bald winter tires offer the same summer grip and performance than an all-season tire...?

*sigh*
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Offline huota

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Re: Feature: Winter Tires vs. All-Season Tires
« Reply #155 on: August 14, 2013, 10:30:29 am »
It's winter tire time again.

Read through this thread and noticed that Michelin X-ice is by far the preferred choice.

Anyone heard of Hakkapeliitta  R2?

This review below claims that the Hakka R2 are the best tires ever.
http://tires.about.com/od/Tire_Reviews/fr/Review-Nokian-Hakkapeliitta-R2.htm

Checked Kal Tire and they're $17 per tire more expensive than Michelin X-ice 3s. 

I'm now debating whether Hakka R2 are worth the small premium over X-ice 3?

Never heard of the R2, but used to run a set of RSi's a few years ago and they were excellent in real winter conditions. By real winter I mean freezing temperatures and snowy and icy roads. Based on my experience with the RSi's I wouldn't hesitate a second to get the R2's. Of course different drivers and environments may call for different attributes.
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Offline Rupert

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Re: Feature: Winter Tires vs. All-Season Tires
« Reply #156 on: August 14, 2013, 12:38:49 pm »
There is an 'all weather' tire now....not 'all season'. Not good enough I suppose...has the snowflake I heard though.

Offline Fobroader

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Re: Feature: Winter Tires vs. All-Season Tires
« Reply #157 on: August 14, 2013, 12:40:28 pm »
There is an 'all weather' tire now....not 'all season'. Not good enough I suppose...has the snowflake I heard though.

Ive heard good things about the all weather Nokians, WR I think.
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Offline dkaz

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Re: Feature: Winter Tires vs. All-Season Tires
« Reply #158 on: August 14, 2013, 12:56:06 pm »
I had the WRG2s, I didn't like the WRG2s. Luckily Kal Tire took them back and gave me Yokohama iceGuard iG20s instead.

Offline PJungnitsch

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Re: Feature: Winter Tires vs. All-Season Tires
« Reply #159 on: August 14, 2013, 01:07:58 pm »
I have the all weather Hankook Optimo 4s. Not a good winter tire at all, kept them for summer but went to Blizzaks for the winter, huge upgrade.