Topic: Nissan Completely Detaches Steering

[Autos_Editor]

Nissan Motor Co., Ltd. today unveiled the world’s first steering technology that allows independent control of a vehicle’s tire angle and steering inputs. This next-generation steering technology was developed by Nissan.
Read More...

[5 Wheel Drive]

Thanks, but no thanks!  I'll keep my mechanical connection to the front wheels...

[Danno001]

Alignment shops may not be required - more of an electric motor calibration process.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

SAAB played around with this in 1988.

http://www.saabsunited.com/2009/11/the-saab-9000-drive-by-wire-joystick-project.html

I'm kind of surprised it hasn't happened sooner. If it's good enough for the 777, it'll be fine in an Altima.

[tpl]

I bet that TC and the DOT will not allow steer-by-wire, for that is what this is in my lifetime.   Same as I have seen no cars with brake-by-wire yet...tested and probably perfected by M-B but not for sale.
Argue that modern braking systems automate nearly everything away from the driver but there is still a hydraulic system that connects the drivers foot to the disc pads.
Argue that BMW's variable rate steering with the gearing and the motor is close to taking the control from the driver  but there is still a solid mechanical connection
In both cases that solid connection may be damn difficult to use without power assist but it is there.

Interesting tho'  having both the systems as fly-by-wire along with the existing throttle-by-wire would make the Google car control easier to implement, with fewer mechanical bits and pieces, and better...maybe even safer.

I think that allowing passenger aircraft to take off and land without pilot intervention is more likely.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

The move from mechanical to hydraulically operated brakes was very controversial at the time. The advantages were simply too great to ignore, so they eventually became the standard.

If this is incorporated with lane departure and radar cruise control, you could have a fail safe mode, where the car moves to the breakdown lane in the even of a failure in the sending unit of the steering wheel (or joystick?).

Failure of the mechanical steering system currently means you've just become a passenger with an unknown destination.

[Arthur Dent]

SAAB played around with this in 1988.

http://www.saabsunited.com/2009/11/the-saab-9000-drive-by-wire-joystick-project.html

I'm kind of surprised it hasn't happened sooner. If it's good enough for the 777, it'll be fine in an Altima.

I had not thought of it that way but that certainly puts it into context.

Yes but I'll bet a 777 receives better maintenance than say this Nissan in 15 years ...

[Northernridge]

I bet we see steer-by-wire sooner rather then later. Sounds like another one of those science vs. faith questions.

[Fobroader]

SAAB played around with this in 1988.

http://www.saabsunited.com/2009/11/the-saab-9000-drive-by-wire-joystick-project.html

I'm kind of surprised it hasn't happened sooner. If it's good enough for the 777, it'll be fine in an Altima.

I had not thought of it that way but that certainly puts it into context.

Yes but I'll bet a 777 receives better maintenance than say this Nissan in 15 years ...

Actually, one of the biggest problems with airplanes is over-maintenance. Taking a component apart over and over increases the chance for a mistake upon reassembly or components being damaged because they were taken apart. Saying that, commercial aircraft are on a very strict maintenance regime, which for most of the drivers on the road would be unmanageable or too expensive. Theres no "check engine" light on a 777 per say, but any kind of fault is taken very seriously. Whereas on a car, how many times have we driven with the check engine light on for months on end or told a buddy, "meh, dont worry about, its running fine." I honestly dont think that drive by wire brakes or steering are ready for the car market, the technology is very expensive, finicky and I dont think that the lowest bidder will cut it for either system. I mean, I have seldom heard of anyone having complete steering or brake failure, a faulty electronic part, hell, just talk to any FGC owner.

[Northernridge]

SAAB played around with this in 1988.

http://www.saabsunited.com/2009/11/the-saab-9000-drive-by-wire-joystick-project.html

I'm kind of surprised it hasn't happened sooner. If it's good enough for the 777, it'll be fine in an Altima.

I had not thought of it that way but that certainly puts it into context.

Yes but I'll bet a 777 receives better maintenance than say this Nissan in 15 years ...

Actually, one of the biggest problems with airplanes is over-maintenance. Taking a component apart over and over increases the chance for a mistake upon reassembly or components being damaged because they were taken apart. Saying that, commercial aircraft are on a very strict maintenance regime, which for most of the drivers on the road would be unmanageable or too expensive. Theres no "check engine" light on a 777 per say, but any kind of fault is taken very seriously. Whereas on a car, how many times have we driven with the check engine light on for months on end or told a buddy, "meh, dont worry about, its running fine." I honestly dont think that drive by wire brakes or steering are ready for the car market, the technology is very expensive, finicky and I dont think that the lowest bidder will cut it for either system. I mean, I have seldom heard of anyone having complete steering or brake failure, a faulty electronic part, hell, just talk to any FGC owner.

Building cars with increasing technical complexity and resulting cost seems like a full time vocation for all auto makers these days...where did that Volt thread go? This is not the age of simplicity nor less-is-more. Them days are long gone.

[Erik]

I thought GM already had this with the Cruze.... 

[Sir Osis of Liver]

There are all kinds of industrial servos, controllers and stepper motors that do hundreds of thousands of operations error free in severe environments. You could use some of them right off the shelf and attach them to current steering racks without much fuss or reliability issues.

Joysticks on heavy equipment have been switching from hydraulic to electronic for years.

[Fobroader]

SAAB played around with this in 1988.

http://www.saabsunited.com/2009/11/the-saab-9000-drive-by-wire-joystick-project.html

I'm kind of surprised it hasn't happened sooner. If it's good enough for the 777, it'll be fine in an Altima.

I had not thought of it that way but that certainly puts it into context.

Yes but I'll bet a 777 receives better maintenance than say this Nissan in 15 years ...

Actually, one of the biggest problems with airplanes is over-maintenance. Taking a component apart over and over increases the chance for a mistake upon reassembly or components being damaged because they were taken apart. Saying that, commercial aircraft are on a very strict maintenance regime, which for most of the drivers on the road would be unmanageable or too expensive. Theres no "check engine" light on a 777 per say, but any kind of fault is taken very seriously. Whereas on a car, how many times have we driven with the check engine light on for months on end or told a buddy, "meh, dont worry about, its running fine." I honestly dont think that drive by wire brakes or steering are ready for the car market, the technology is very expensive, finicky and I dont think that the lowest bidder will cut it for either system. I mean, I have seldom heard of anyone having complete steering or brake failure, a faulty electronic part, hell, just talk to any FGC owner.

Building cars with increasing technical complexity and resulting cost seems like a full time vocation for all auto makers these days...where did that Volt thread go? This is not the age of simplicity nor less-is-more. Them days are long gone.

Oh yeah, now the more flashing lights and dinging bells the better, just saying, if my bluetooth, air conditioning or cd player dont work, no big deal, now, if my steering gets the blue screen of death or has a bad contact....EEEEKKKKKKK 

[mmret]

First accident will result in massive outrage, congressional hearing, lawsuit, etc.

"OMG THE CAR SWERVED INTO ONCOMING TRAFFIC BY ITSELF"

[Sir Osis of Liver]

First accident will result in massive outrage, congressional hearing, lawsuit, etc.

"OMG THE CAR SWERVED INTO ONCOMING TRAFFIC BY ITSELF"

I suspect, this is the major reason the switch hasn't already occurred.

[tpl]

There are all kinds of industrial servos, controllers and stepper motors that do hundreds of thousands of operations error free in severe environments. You could use some of them right off the shelf and attach them to current steering racks without much fuss or reliability issues.

Joysticks on heavy equipment have been switching from hydraulic to electronic for years.

Yep.

Gentlemen,   I DO believe that steer by wire and/or brake by wire would be reliable and safe.     My doubt is the regulators allowing it in the near or mid term future.  And mm's lawsuit possibility may well be the reason.

Isn't the 777 the last of the real aeroplanes?    I thought it was Airbus that built fly by wire aircraft?  I know the 787 is fly by wire.

[Mike]

There are all kinds of industrial servos, controllers and stepper motors that do hundreds of thousands of operations error free in severe environments. You could use some of them right off the shelf and attach them to current steering racks without much fuss or reliability issues.

Joysticks on heavy equipment have been switching from hydraulic to electronic for years.

Yep.

Gentlemen,   I DO believe that steer by wire and/or brake by wire would be reliable and safe.     My doubt is the regulators allowing it in the near or mid term future.  And mm's lawsuit possibility may well be the reason.

Isn't the 777 the last of the real aeroplanes?    I thought it was Airbus that built fly by wire aircraft?  I know the 787 is fly by wire.

777 was the first of the 100% fly-by-wire commercial aircraft. 

[tpl]

Then it must have been the 767 was the last one.

Talking of the 777 did you see that news article about the AC 777 doing Search and (not) Rescue near Australia.   Flying a low on fuel ( just come from Vancouver) 777 around at 3700 feet above the Pacific with passengers on board to look for a disabled yacht.  Not a thing I'd want a pilot to do if I were on the plane...unless his name was either Piché or Sullenberger.

[Mike]

Then it must have been the 767 was the last one.

Quite possibly.  I only know because I had to do a high school project on the upcoming 777 when I was in grade 10 (1996)

[tpl]

Then it must have been the 767 was the last one.

Quite possibly.  I only know because I had to do a high school project on the upcoming 777 when I was in grade 10 (1996)

Before 9/11 I got to visit the cockpit of a 767 between Edmonton and TO and talk to the crew who said it was a "real" aka not fly-by-wire airplane.