Topic: First Drive: 2013 Subaru XV Crosstrek

[Fobroader]

When it comes to small displacement, underpowered vehicles, having a 6th gear makes the difference between the engine winding out at 120Km/h or being at a nice, quiet RPM. In today world, bringing to market a 5 spd manual makes about as much sense as bringing back drum brakes.

False. The final ratio is what makes the difference. The number of gears doesn't matter. You could have 4 gears and have less rpm at speed than a 6 speed does.

Ok, so you gonna tell Subaru to drop in a 4.10 or 4.56 rear end for you so you have enough power in the city or are you going to ask for the 2.73 or 3.07 to have a good highway cruiser? On the vast majority of vehicles, the difference between a 5spd and a 6 spd is cruising RPM on the highway, if you took the same car, same axle ratios with a 5 spd and a 6 spd, what would change between the two? You could have a 4 spd thats good on the highway, but on a 150 horsepower CUV it would take you 10 minutes to get up to hwy speed.

if you took the same car, same axle ratios with a 5 spd and a 6 spd, what would change between the two?

I would build a gear box that matches the power band of the engine.  Besides, having a lower RPM at hwy cruising isn't always the better thing to do and can increase fuel usage unless you live in a world that all drives are down hill with a tail wind.

I hate cars that setup their gears so 2nd can get them over 60mph for better 0-60mph times or 5th/6th gear that you have to downshift for every little hill on a highway.

My Mazda6 would cruise at 3,000rpm while going 150kph but would need to downshift on most small hills. My GTi cruises at 3,500rpm at 120kph but hardly need to downshift even though it has less power. Both are 6 speeds.

My Altima with the V6 was a 5spd, I could put that on cruise in Calgary and I wouldnt have to shift all the way to the Okanagan, 5th gear held it beautifully in its powerband.....but that was the problem, if it would have had a 6th gear it could have loped along at a little over 2000 rpm on the flat parts(trust me, in Alberta, we have a lot of flat). I think that you can much easily match a 6 spd to a drivetrain than a 5, just because you have more gear to play with, I dont need a car that will do 140Kmh in 2nd gear nor do I want to shift three times before I cross an intersection.

[johngenx]

The Miata is a low HP car (though a better power:weight ratio than this Subaru) with not a lot of torque, and no way I'd want a tall "relaxed" gear for highway use.  It would be used very rarely, so why bother.  The little engine needs to rev, and any time the grade exceeded 0.00001%, I'd have to downshift.  I wouldn't mind a sixth gear, but no way I want a taller ratio.  As for fuel economy gains, well, I'm screaming along at over 3000rpm all the time on the highway and still get 6L/100km, so...?

[S. Aureus]

Our Legacy Wagon is scheduled for replacement next year.
 
XV is a nice vehicle, but... for the same amount of money I can buy an Outback in New Hampshire.
Add a couple grand, and it will be Outback 3.6R.

[ManitobaSky]

I really don't see the problem with the pricing, yes it's more then the Impreza and higher then in the US.  Guess what that is no different than any other  company.  It is still priced in line with other models it will be cross shopped against, CX-5, RVR, Sportage etc etc. 

[dirtyjeffer]

I really don't see the problem with the pricing, yes it's more then the Impreza and higher then in the US.  Guess what that is no different than any other  company.  It is still priced in line with other models it will be cross shopped against, CX-5, RVR, Sportage etc etc.

good points...but we always want things for less money.

[Winterpeg]

I like this vehicle for the most part, pros (heated windsheid wipers, high ground clearance,hid lights, flat folding rear seats) and cons (cvt auto, weaker engine). 

[USAFANG67]

This model will be DOA for Subaru unless they find more HP via a turbo.

[OliverD]

This model will be DOA for Subaru unless they find more HP via a turbo.

That's a silly thing to say. They sell plenty of regular Imprezas and Foresters, neither of which have a whole lot of power.

[Car Guy]

I am a Subaru fan.  I owned a 2003 Subaru Legacy.  Great car.  But....I firmly believe that Subaru blew it big time when the only solution they could come up with for increased fuel efficiency was to make the engines considerably smaller, way less powerful, and then offer them with only a cvt.  C'mon Subaru.  Yes engines are getting smaller, but every other manufacturer on the planet has figured out how to get more power out of smaller engines.  Get with the program Subaru!

As for the cvt, well Subaru has missed the boat there as well.  Give me a modern 6 or 7 speed auto, of a good 6 speed manual any day.  You can keep your cvt, thank you very much.

I know that Subaru has improved there interiors and good on them for that.  The Legacy has always been pretty good (mine was fine) but the Impreza has always suffered.  In the modern market place, Subaru is going to have to improve the quality of the interior in the Impreza (and Impreza based vehicles) AND they are going to have to up the option features.  A four speaker stereo??  Really??  Has Subaru looked at Mitsubishi lately?  Mitsubishi has figured out that the modern young car buyer wants top notch electronics in the car, not some cheap, crappy four speaker system.  Again, get with the program Subaru.  You can only hang your hat on a bulletproof awd system for so long.  Eventually the competition will run you over if the buying public thinks that your "improvements" are going the wrong way.

So here is what I would like to see from Subaru in the near future. (I'll use the Impreza as an example)
1) A 2.0L turbocharged engine that develops about 185p and about 200ft. lbs. of torque using the symetrical awd system.
2) Mate that engine to a 6 speed manual or a 6 speed automatic with paddles. (doesn't have to be a dsg - this is an Impreza)  Offer the cvt as an option, but by and large, ditch the cvt.
3) Improve the quality of the interior materials.  Subaru is getting killed by the competion now for interior quality
4) Improved electronics and stereo options.  Use Harmon Kardon like in the Legacy.
5) Give us a reason OTHER than just the awesome symetrical awd to consider your vehicles again.

That's it.  Rant over!  Thanks for listening everyone!

[Fobroader]

^^ I agree. Ive always said that Subaru needed more power in their whole lineup. The interiors were never world class. Their AWD was always so good, people were always willing to overlook all of their shortcomings, plus, they were always pretty bulletproof vehicles. I think a light pressure turbo, mid $20k sedan with a decent interior would take them to the next level. The Crosstrek baffles me, why not buy a Forrester?? Too big (  ) for your driving abilities, how about the Impreza wagon?? I love Subarus, but Im sorry, a 150 horse car would never bring me into your showroom.....now, a turbodiesel of that much power....now youre talking.

[cruzzer]

I'll bet the manual does better in fuel economy than the CVT. Too bad it doesn't have a sixth gear (in the manual). Don't like how everything comes in 'packages' or in different trim levels. Can't understand why a sun roof means it has a spoiler that gets in the way of the hatch opening with say a canoe or kayak on the roof. Still I like the concept of the XV and it's better ground clearance over the Impreza. Subaru Canada needs to bring it's pricing more in line with the US. Our dollar has been stronger than the American one for around two years. Today it's over $1.02 yet their cars cost 20-25% more here. BS.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

I don't like CVTs either, but they do produce good fuel economy numbers.

[sailor723]

It's all about fuel economy today. Many manufacturers are compromising  acceleration, performance and general drivability in pursuit to the best possible numbers. Like it or not, it's what a good portion of the buying public wants and what governments are mandating with CAFE standards.

[OliverD]

I am a Subaru fan.  I owned a 2003 Subaru Legacy.  Great car.  But....I firmly believe that Subaru blew it big time when the only solution they could come up with for increased fuel efficiency was to make the engines considerably smaller, way less powerful, and then offer them with only a cvt.

That statement isn't even accurate though. The only engine that they've downsized is in the Impreza and the CVT is an option, not the only choice.

Keep in mind the current Impreza is also significantly lighter than the last one and performance hasn't decreased by that much. And in this class of car, people value fuel economy over horsepower. So the tradeoff is acceptable for most buyers. It's hard to say they "blew it big time" when the brand is enjoying record sales in North America.

[T.W]

Wow a 5 speed manual, that's pretty impressive.....in 1980.
Do you get the feeling Subaru is trying to push the CVT by offering a far inferior manual option?
Yeah, I think so too.

How exactly is a five-speed "far inferior"? I know it's all the rage right now to offer more gears (next Genesis is rumored to have a 10 speed auto) but in this segment the advantages of a six-speed over a five-speed are negligible.

Fobroader summed it up quite nicely but by inferior I'm going by what the article said in stating the engine is more suited to the CVT. Having driven small cars all my life - including a 5 speed Impreza - I can tell you the results are more than negligible going from a 5 to 6 speed manual, lower RPM's = better mileage, quieter ride etc.
You're correct that in the city it does not matter having a six speed , and final gear ratios are a factor, and that some cars deliver the power band better then others, but a six speed manual is offered in the Legacy, why not the Impreza? The line of cars with 7 or 8 speed autos is a puzzle to me as well, but not too many worries on a manuals reliability, especially coming from a Subaru.

[OliverD]

Fobroader summed it up quite nicely but by inferior I'm going by what the article said in stating the engine is more suited to the CVT. Having driven small cars all my life - including a 5 speed Impreza - I can tell you the results are more than negligible going from a 5 to 6 speed manual, lower RPM's = better mileage, quieter ride etc.

There's plenty of cases where the top gear ratio is very similar if not the same in a five-speed vs a six-speed and the gear spacing is simply closer together.

[quadzilla]

There's plenty of cases where the top gear ratio is very similar if not the same in a five-speed vs a six-speed and the gear spacing is simply closer together.

Why is this so hard to understand?

[CSH]

There is a Hybrind version now..
Is the Hybrid from Subaru's own or borrowed from Toyota?

[Sir Osis of Liver]

There is a Hybrind version now..
Is the Hybrid from Subaru's own or borrowed from Toyota?

No. It was developed in-house by Subaru. I can't help but think that Toyota has had a hand in the programming, but there's no information to back that up.

[dirtyjeffer]

There is a Hybrind version now..
Is the Hybrid from Subaru's own or borrowed from Toyota?

No. It was developed in-house by Subaru. I can't help but think that Toyota has had a hand in the programming, but there's no information to back that up.

i've always liked the XV...the hybrid version looks interesting too...well equipped for $29,995...not bad (i won't look at US pricing, of course).