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Author Topic: Tweet Thread  (Read 3223209 times)

Offline mmret

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Re: Tweet Thread
« Reply #10980 on: March 24, 2015, 11:17:04 pm »
Random thought, now that both of my primary cars are transverse AWD based I am a bit disappointed in the proportionality.

A minor adjustment (attached) creates a subtle but material improvement to the way a car looks. Its a shame so many otherwise very attractive cars (IMHO anyway) have been crippled by the nature of the FWD layout.



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Offline johngenx

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Re: Tweet Thread
« Reply #10981 on: March 24, 2015, 11:39:06 pm »
I too dislike transverse layouts, and wish that the Highlander had been designed differently.  But, Toyota wanted to sell FWD versions and use the Camry/Sienna bits.  It's one of the things I prefer about the 4-Runner.
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Offline Sir Osis of Liver

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Re: Tweet Thread
« Reply #10982 on: March 25, 2015, 10:35:18 am »
What's wrong with transverse?



I don't really care one way or the other, as long as the suspension is designed to cope with the power level. Transverse layouts do allow better interior space though.
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Offline Snowman

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Re: Tweet Thread
« Reply #10983 on: March 25, 2015, 10:38:14 am »
 :)
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Offline HeliDriver

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Re: Tweet Thread
« Reply #10984 on: March 25, 2015, 11:50:10 am »
Yes, that front overhang never looks good. But even worse is the extra weight over the front end.

I wonder if anyone has ever designed a FWD car with 50/50 weight distribution? Would probably have a crazy long hood and weird proportions of its own, but would be a neat experiment. Keep the weight down to 2,500lbs, HP and TQ at 200 or so (so torque steer not an issue), and I bet it could be a fine-handling little sports car.



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Offline Sir Osis of Liver

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Re: Tweet Thread
« Reply #10985 on: March 25, 2015, 12:33:50 pm »




Cords and Citroens had the transmission in front of their longitudinal engines, which helped weight distribution, but made for a pretty long snout.
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Offline HeliDriver

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Re: Tweet Thread
« Reply #10986 on: March 25, 2015, 01:01:01 pm »
^^ Neat!
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Offline Fobroader

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Re: Tweet Thread
« Reply #10987 on: March 25, 2015, 01:02:45 pm »
Well, Audi had longitudinal engines, my 5000 had one and was FWD, just made for a understeering pig. Though I agree, longitudinal engines are WAY easier to work on, especially V6s and V8s.
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Offline HeliDriver

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Re: Tweet Thread
« Reply #10988 on: March 25, 2015, 01:04:48 pm »
Quote from: Fobroader on March 25, 2015, 01:02:45 pm
Well, Audi had longitudinal engines, my 5000 had one and was FWD, just made for a understeering pig. Though I agree, longitudinal engines are WAY easier to work on, especially V6s and V8s.

I thought Audi still was longitudinal? At least A4 and above. A3 and TT are transverse.
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Offline Fobroader

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Re: Tweet Thread
« Reply #10989 on: March 25, 2015, 01:06:52 pm »
Quote from: HeliDriver on March 25, 2015, 01:04:48 pm
Quote from: Fobroader on March 25, 2015, 01:02:45 pm
Well, Audi had longitudinal engines, my 5000 had one and was FWD, just made for a understeering pig. Though I agree, longitudinal engines are WAY easier to work on, especially V6s and V8s.

I thought Audi still was longitudinal? At least A4 and above. A3 and TT are transverse.

I haven't really looked at Audi for a while, don't know.
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Offline tpl

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Re: Tweet Thread
« Reply #10990 on: March 25, 2015, 01:38:06 pm »
Saab 99 and 900 up until the GM thing were longitudinal.  Clutch at the front and gearbox underneath.

Audis are longitudinal except ( in North America) the cars smaller than the A4/Q5.  The A3/Q3 are transverse and the A2 is as well I think.
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Offline Triple Bob

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Re: Tweet Thread
« Reply #10991 on: March 25, 2015, 02:03:16 pm »
Quote from: HeliDriver on March 25, 2015, 11:50:10 am
Yes, that front overhang never looks good. But even worse is the extra weight over the front end.

I wonder if anyone has ever designed a FWD car with 50/50 weight distribution? Would probably have a crazy long hood and weird proportions of its own, but would be a neat experiment. Keep the weight down to 2,500lbs, HP and TQ at 200 or so (so torque steer not an issue), and I bet it could be a fine-handling little sports car.

The original Lotus Elan was close to 50/50 I think, low weight, longitudinal layout.  Perfect!
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Offline HeliDriver

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Re: Tweet Thread
« Reply #10992 on: March 25, 2015, 02:07:28 pm »
Quote from: Triple Bob on March 25, 2015, 02:03:16 pm
Quote from: HeliDriver on March 25, 2015, 11:50:10 am
Yes, that front overhang never looks good. But even worse is the extra weight over the front end.

I wonder if anyone has ever designed a FWD car with 50/50 weight distribution? Would probably have a crazy long hood and weird proportions of its own, but would be a neat experiment. Keep the weight down to 2,500lbs, HP and TQ at 200 or so (so torque steer not an issue), and I bet it could be a fine-handling little sports car.

The original Lotus Elan was close to 50/50 I think, low weight, longitudinal layout.  Perfect!

Funny, I Googled it and wiki said the old Elans were RWD. I always thought there was an old fiberglass-bodied FWD Elan, but wiki said only the 1990s model developed with GM was FWD. ???
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Offline tpl

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Re: Tweet Thread
« Reply #10993 on: March 25, 2015, 02:35:49 pm »
Lotus Elans were RWD.    Ford 1600 engine with a Lotus cylinder head. 4 speed Ford gearbox and a IRS with the diff bolted firmly to the chassis.   Whether the weight distribution was 50-50 I don't know but I suspect it was close. The whole car was so light anyway...


Yes TB the original Elan WAS perfect for its time and for long afterward.  Even the +2S 130 I had was damn close to perfect!



Just found it.   Original 1962 Elan S1  had 47.5:52.5   F:R   THe later S4 was about the same at 48:52

 Note that even the heaviest Elan only weighed 1520 Lbs or so.

http://www.carfolio.com/specifications/models/car/?car=62909
« Last Edit: March 25, 2015, 02:46:47 pm by tpl »
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Offline blur911

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Re: Tweet Thread
« Reply #10994 on: March 25, 2015, 08:38:37 pm »
Quote from: tpl on March 25, 2015, 02:35:49 pm
Lotus Elans were RWD. 

You forget about the abomination

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Offline mmret

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Re: Tweet Thread
« Reply #10995 on: March 25, 2015, 09:34:06 pm »
Quote from: Sir Osis of Liver on March 25, 2015, 12:33:50 pm
Cords and Citroens had the transmission in front of their longitudinal engines, which helped weight distribution, but made for a pretty long snout.

So why can't we have a transverse layout but with the transmission arranged in some way that allows the front axle to be pushed forward? ???

As I understand it RWD based AWD cars basically have a transmission stuck near the center diff, which is actually pretty close to the front of the car, and there is a small propshaft that goes forward to the front axle. So remove that back half of the drivetrain, replace the center diff with fixed gears (or just integrate that whole thing into the trans), and more or less voila.
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Offline Sir Osis of Liver

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Re: Tweet Thread
« Reply #10996 on: March 25, 2015, 09:49:53 pm »
Quote from: mmret on March 25, 2015, 09:34:06 pm
Quote from: Sir Osis of Liver on March 25, 2015, 12:33:50 pm
Cords and Citroens had the transmission in front of their longitudinal engines, which helped weight distribution, but made for a pretty long snout.

So why can't we have a transverse layout but with the transmission arranged in some way that allows the front axle to be pushed forward? ???

As I understand it RWD based AWD cars basically have a transmission stuck near the center diff, which is actually pretty close to the front of the car, and there is a small propshaft that goes forward to the front axle. So remove that back half of the drivetrain, replace the center diff with fixed gears (or just integrate that whole thing into the trans), and more or less voila.

There's no reason why they couldn't. Transaxles sit behind a transverse engine centreline, but could just as easily sit in front. I think it just boils down to having other priorities, like interior room and exhaust routing.

The 1966 Olds Toronados had their transmissions sitting beside the engine, with the driveshafts  forward of the engine centreline. Considering they had 425, then 455in3 engines, they were remarkably free from torque steer, but the narrow bias plied tires certainly suffered from having to control all that power and weight.

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Offline mmret

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Re: Tweet Thread
« Reply #10997 on: March 25, 2015, 09:54:48 pm »
Fair enough, I suppose "short overhang" doesn't sell cars necessarily and you can always angle your press shots to avoid showing too much overhang.

Still its a shame. Classic RWD proportions are a great thing, even if those proportions don't necessarily have anything to do with being RWD.
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Offline CanuckS2K

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Re: Tweet Thread
« Reply #10998 on: March 25, 2015, 10:31:13 pm »
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Offline Triple Bob

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Re: Tweet Thread
« Reply #10999 on: March 25, 2015, 11:30:29 pm »
Quote from: blur911 on March 25, 2015, 08:38:37 pm
Quote from: tpl on March 25, 2015, 02:35:49 pm
Lotus Elans were RWD. 

You forget about the abomination



Everyone forgets about that one, wasn't it an Isuzu engine too?  :rofl2:
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