Topic: Test Drive: 2013 Lexus GS 350 AWD

[nsmyhte]

Title on front page

"Is Lexus's GS executive sedan finally in the same league as the BMW 5 Series and Audi A6?"

Answer - No, both the A6 and the BMW 5 series are in another league.  Yes the GS is much improved but all they have done is compete with the previous versions of the 5 series and A6, with both of them improving their offering considerably over the past year.

Intereting. So thats why Motortrend ranked the new GS higher than the 5er, A6, and M37?

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/1206_six_cylinder_midsize_luxury_sedans/

[sailor723]

I'm finding the interior (dash especially) a little disjointed. I don't care for the way the flat square-ish centre console and  centre stack contrasts with the curved instrument hood. As always, constrasting stitching is a turnoff to me. I don't get why so many manufacturers are going this route....follow the leader I guess.

[rrocket]

I like the GS...but the only one I'd own is the F-Sport one.  Saw one at the dealership in dark gray with dark gray wheels....looked awesome!

I am a bit of a GS slappy.  LOVED my 1998 GS400..one of the best cars I've owned.

Here it is...in the colour Antique Bronze Mica with HP Lightning 18" wheels, L-Tuned suspension and a Rod Millen Exhaust among other mods...

[Vanstar]

Sister in law had one of these on order. Once it came in she declared it an old man's car, except for the front end. She also said she didn't like that she had no colour choice for the interior (I wasn't interested enough to verify that claim). She ended up getting a 535ix instead.

I must be the old man she to which she was referring....

[cloud7]

Am I the only one that cannot get past the horrible front grill?  This ranks closely behind the front 'shield' or 'beak' that Acura had a couple of years ago, that they promptly reworked.   Like the Acuras, the rest of the car looks and feel fanastic. 

[rrocket]

Am I the only one that cannot get past the horrible front grill?  This ranks closely behind the front 'shield' or 'beak' that Acura had a couple of years ago, that they promptly reworked.   Like the Acuras, the rest of the car looks and feel fanastic.

I like it.....and many others do too!

[CanuckS2K]

Am I the only one that cannot get past the horrible front grill?  This ranks closely behind the front 'shield' or 'beak' that Acura had a couple of years ago, that they promptly reworked.   Like the Acuras, the rest of the car looks and feel fanastic.

IMHO, this doesn't come even remotely close to the fugliness of the Acura beak.........namely the TL's from a couple of years ago. 

[jyarkony]

It's amusing to me that you don't consider the E Class a competitor of the GS, the guys I know who purchase these cars constantly noodle between all cars in the this segment – except the GS until recently. Also, if you want to contrast this GS with a 5 Series you really ought to do so with the 535 to have similarly configured cars.

I absolutely consider the E350 its competitor, but have not driven the current model or its predecessor so cannot draw any valid comparison except the fact that I think the M-B looked the best, until this GS came along. Mike will be driving an E 350 later this summer, so that'll give us a ballpark idea of that model's capabilities - not sure if there are dynamic differences with the Coupe.

I can see why some people find the grille too aggressive, and I thought the spindle grille looked hokey in pictures, but walking around and looking at it from every angle, I found I at least liked them all, and loved many of them, including this one, which I haven't yet added to the gallery (issues...)... this used to be the worst angle on the previous GS, and now i think it's amazing.

and because I drove that lower-spec 528i, I also don't see it as a fair straight up comparison, but I can at least vouch for interiors and the dynamic differences between those two unequal models...

and yeah, I didn't hate the Acura beak either, but I never thought it looked good.

and this should be required reading for everyone:

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/1206_six_cylinder_midsize_luxury_sedans/viewall.html

beating BMW and Audi at their own game by a magazine notoriously slandered for BMW bias...

[Sir Osis of Liver]

Pros:

Price
Reliability
Refinement
Interior
Performance
Driver engagement

Cons:

No tristar or roundel on the hood.

[mmret]

Must be said, looks rather good. Much better than the previous one which was a bit sterile.

[Factger]

I like the new grille /look. It is not pretty but it is more of a aggressive in your face kind of look which I like.

RRocket that is a nice looking gs. Timeless design. Awsome sounding v8.

[Vanstar]

It's amusing to me that you don't consider the E Class a competitor of the GS, the guys I know who purchase these cars constantly noodle between all cars in the this segment – except the GS until recently. Also, if you want to contrast this GS with a 5 Series you really ought to do so with the 535 to have similarly configured cars.

I absolutely consider the E350 its competitor, but have not driven the current model or its predecessor so cannot draw any valid comparison except the fact that I think the M-B looked the best, until this GS came along. Mike will be driving an E 350 later this summer, so that'll give us a ballpark idea of that model's capabilities - not sure if there are dynamic differences with the Coupe.

I can see why some people find the grille too aggressive, and I thought the spindle grille looked hokey in pictures, but walking around and looking at it from every angle, I found I at least liked them all, and loved many of them, including this one, which I haven't yet added to the gallery (issues...)... this used to be the worst angle on the previous GS, and now i think it's amazing.

and because I drove that lower-spec 528i, I also don't see it as a fair straight up comparison, but I can at least vouch for interiors and the dynamic differences between those two unequal models...

and yeah, I didn't hate the Acura beak either, but I never thought it looked good.

and this should be required reading for everyone:

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/1206_six_cylinder_midsize_luxury_sedans/viewall.html

beating BMW and Audi at their own game by a magazine notoriously slandered for BMW bias...

What is your opinion of the GS interior vs. the 528? I looked at a 528 with the comfort seat upgrade and the M Sport appearance package and thought the interior was very good just a tad austere but the seats were amazing. Both innards are good but I like the 528 for style reasons.

Equipped this way, the 528 is much more expensive than the GS. Even the base GS is $10,000 cheaper than the base 528 and when you add a few things to a BMW, the price goes through the roof. To top it off, you still get a four banger. Yesterday a 528 pulled up at a stop sign while I was crossing the street; definitely sounded like a four banger. Go up to a proper six cylinder and you are looking at least a $20,000 premium for the BMW. That is a 40% addition for the BWM logo on the hood. No thanks.

BMW had to choose four bangers or diesels to conform to the CAFE rules on the bulk of its cars sold here, and it took the four banger route. The risk of cheapening their brand obviously didn't seem that much to take for them. In my opinion, the 528i is bloated, overweight and isolated, designed to appeal to the Hello Kitty set that gobbles them up like candy. For the Hello Kitty types, it doesn't matter what the car looks like, drives like or the price tag on the window; in fact, the higher the better. It's all about brand and I am sure the Shanghai housewives who are the majority of the buyers of the Ultimate Driving Machine love their cars while at the same time making BMW loads of money.

Watch for the Hello Kitty package, factory direct. There are already plenty of aftermarket ones.

[Vanstar]

It's amusing to me that you don't consider the E Class a competitor of the GS, the guys I know who purchase these cars constantly noodle between all cars in the this segment – except the GS until recently. Also, if you want to contrast this GS with a 5 Series you really ought to do so with the 535 to have similarly configured cars.

I absolutely consider the E350 its competitor, but have not driven the current model or its predecessor so cannot draw any valid comparison except the fact that I think the M-B looked the best, until this GS came along. Mike will be driving an E 350 later this summer, so that'll give us a ballpark idea of that model's capabilities - not sure if there are dynamic differences with the Coupe.

I can see why some people find the grille too aggressive, and I thought the spindle grille looked hokey in pictures, but walking around and looking at it from every angle, I found I at least liked them all, and loved many of them, including this one, which I haven't yet added to the gallery (issues...)... this used to be the worst angle on the previous GS, and now i think it's amazing.

and because I drove that lower-spec 528i, I also don't see it as a fair straight up comparison, but I can at least vouch for interiors and the dynamic differences between those two unequal models...

and yeah, I didn't hate the Acura beak either, but I never thought it looked good.

and this should be required reading for everyone:

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/1206_six_cylinder_midsize_luxury_sedans/viewall.html

beating BMW and Audi at their own game by a magazine notoriously slandered for BMW bias...

What is your opinion of the GS interior vs. the 528? I looked at a 528 with the comfort seat upgrade and the M Sport appearance package and thought the interior was very good just a tad austere but the seats were amazing. Both innards are good but I like the 528 for style reasons.

Equipped this way, the 528 is much more expensive than the GS. Even the base GS is $10,000 cheaper than the base 528 and when you add a few things to a BMW, the price goes through the roof. To top it off, you still get a four banger. Yesterday a 528 pulled up at a stop sign while I was crossing the street; definitely sounded like a four banger. Go up to a proper six cylinder and you are looking at least a $20,000 premium for the BMW. That is a 40% addition for the BWM logo on the hood. No thanks.

BMW had to choose four bangers or diesels to conform to the CAFE rules on the bulk of its cars sold here, and it took the four banger route. The risk of cheapening their brand obviously didn't seem that much to take for them. In my opinion, the 528i is bloated, overweight and isolated, designed to appeal to the Hello Kitty set that gobbles them up like candy. For the Hello Kitty types, it doesn't matter what the car looks like, drives like or the price tag on the window; in fact, the higher the better. It's all about brand and I am sure the Shanghai housewives who are the majority of the buyers of the Ultimate Driving Machine love their cars while at the same time making BMW loads of money.

Watch for the Hello Kitty package, factory direct. There are already plenty of aftermarket ones.

You are incorrect on the pricing...and what does "Hello Kitty" mean?

The BMW site was down, as it often us, so here are the prices:

Base GS350, 305 hp $51,900             Base 528i, 240hp 4-banger $52,700

GS350 AWD 305 hp, $54,900             535i X-drive, 300 hp, $67,670 manual

It is very difficult to work out exact prices on these two vehicles as the BMW charges extra for many features that are standard on the Lexus but it would be safe to say that 535i automatic is at least $15,000 more than the GS350 when similarly equipped if not more. However, the BMW site is not functioning at the moment, which is often the case with it.

Is the BMW worth the extra money? In my opinion it is not, since the car is a bloated housewifemobile now, designed to sell in droves in China, which in it fact does. Thus, from a business standpoint, BMW has made the right decision. In order to get a real driver's car you need to step up to the M products which are loads more money and making money is what the business is all about.

However, I don't see the new 5 series as a driver's car in any of its models. It is bloated and disconnected from the road. At least that is what my test drive made me feel about it. It simply does not compare to my 1996 528i which was a beautiful car to drive. That is when I actually go to drive it and it was not in the shop being fixed.

If you want to know what "Hello Kitty" is, come to Vancouver and go to Shanghai. She figures predominantly on many German cars in both locations.

[Vanstar]

It's amusing to me that you don't consider the E Class a competitor of the GS, the guys I know who purchase these cars constantly noodle between all cars in the this segment – except the GS until recently. Also, if you want to contrast this GS with a 5 Series you really ought to do so with the 535 to have similarly configured cars.

I absolutely consider the E350 its competitor, but have not driven the current model or its predecessor so cannot draw any valid comparison except the fact that I think the M-B looked the best, until this GS came along. Mike will be driving an E 350 later this summer, so that'll give us a ballpark idea of that model's capabilities - not sure if there are dynamic differences with the Coupe.

I can see why some people find the grille too aggressive, and I thought the spindle grille looked hokey in pictures, but walking around and looking at it from every angle, I found I at least liked them all, and loved many of them, including this one, which I haven't yet added to the gallery (issues...)... this used to be the worst angle on the previous GS, and now i think it's amazing.

and because I drove that lower-spec 528i, I also don't see it as a fair straight up comparison, but I can at least vouch for interiors and the dynamic differences between those two unequal models...

and yeah, I didn't hate the Acura beak either, but I never thought it looked good.

and this should be required reading for everyone:

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/1206_six_cylinder_midsize_luxury_sedans/viewall.html

beating BMW and Audi at their own game by a magazine notoriously slandered for BMW bias...

What is your opinion of the GS interior vs. the 528? I looked at a 528 with the comfort seat upgrade and the M Sport appearance package and thought the interior was very good just a tad austere but the seats were amazing. Both innards are good but I like the 528 for style reasons.

Equipped this way, the 528 is much more expensive than the GS. Even the base GS is $10,000 cheaper than the base 528 and when you add a few things to a BMW, the price goes through the roof. To top it off, you still get a four banger. Yesterday a 528 pulled up at a stop sign while I was crossing the street; definitely sounded like a four banger. Go up to a proper six cylinder and you are looking at least a $20,000 premium for the BMW. That is a 40% addition for the BWM logo on the hood. No thanks.

BMW had to choose four bangers or diesels to conform to the CAFE rules on the bulk of its cars sold here, and it took the four banger route. The risk of cheapening their brand obviously didn't seem that much to take for them. In my opinion, the 528i is bloated, overweight and isolated, designed to appeal to the Hello Kitty set that gobbles them up like candy. For the Hello Kitty types, it doesn't matter what the car looks like, drives like or the price tag on the window; in fact, the higher the better. It's all about brand and I am sure the Shanghai housewives who are the majority of the buyers of the Ultimate Driving Machine love their cars while at the same time making BMW loads of money.

Watch for the Hello Kitty package, factory direct. There are already plenty of aftermarket ones.

You are incorrect on the pricing...and what does "Hello Kitty" mean?

The BMW site was down, as it often us, so here are the prices:

Base GS350, 305 hp $51,900             Base 528i, 240hp 4-banger $52,700

GS350 AWD 305 hp, $54,900             535i X-drive, 300 hp, $67,670 manual

It is very difficult to work out exact prices on these two vehicles as the BMW charges extra for many features that are standard on the Lexus but it would be safe to say that 535i automatic is at least $15,000 more than the GS350 when similarly equipped if not more. However, the BMW site is not functioning at the moment, which is often the case with it.

Is the BMW worth the extra money? In my opinion it is not, since the car is a bloated housewifemobile now, designed to sell in droves in China, which in it fact does. Thus, from a business standpoint, BMW has made the right decision. In order to get a real driver's car you need to step up to the M products which are loads more money and making money is what the business is all about.

However, I don't see the new 5 series as a driver's car in any of its models. It is bloated and disconnected from the road. At least that is what my test drive made me feel about it. It simply does not compare to my 1996 528i which was a beautiful car to drive. That is when I actually go to drive it and it was not in the shop being fixed.

If you want to know what "Hello Kitty" is, come to Vancouver and go to Shanghai. She figures predominantly on many German cars in both locations.

You seem a little angry and slightly negative towards Chinese women.

But you make a good point about the 'bloated' cars in this segment...and cars in general. I think I remember when the 5 Series was about the same size as today's 3 Series and when the 3 Series was way smaller than it is now. Sort of seems like every segment keeps growing making room for the next wave of sub-compacts that begin the bloating process anew. Performance aside, I wonder if consumers really want bigger and bigger cars or if we'd be happy with proportions that stay the same.

I am not negative towards anyone, I am just using a bit of sarcasm to make my point. In the case of the 5 series, BMW has based it on the 7 series to reduce development costs. BMW has also done a brilliant job marketing its brand as an upmarket model with high levels of cachet, which has tremendous appeal to the newly rich in China. In fact, China and Asians are now their biggest market and most of these buyers are not interested unable to explore "canyon carving in twisties allied to a gear lever that falls readily to hand." Traffic in Asia rather precludes this and comfort becomes more important. This is the reason that steering has become lighter and rides softer.

In my case, I find the car bloated and detached and I detest the electronic gizmos such as iDrive and their horrible gear selector. Both these things are designed to save money and yet they charge for them. I could go on and on with this topic but there is not point. The cars do not suit me like they did in the past and I have moved on to smaller, lighter, more lithe, cheaper, more reliable brands that suit my needs.

A GS350 RWD is very much a possibility in the future, base, with navigation it is a great car for the money.

[johngenx]

Lexus' original business plan was to offer a luxurious car that offered rock solid reliability and undercut the German brands by a big chunk of change.

This GS, it seems to me, is a return to that strategy.

What Lexus knew is that there are many people buying in the lux segments that don't care about skidpad numbers or some nebulous "steering feel" as defined by Car and Driver.  They wanted a really nice car that they bought at a really nice dealer and they would be treated like gold when in for service, which should be rarely, as they want good build quality.

In some ways, BMW has chased Lexus for a little while.  They have added gadgets and softened the cars.  Prices have been held or lowered.  And as the 90's came to a close, it looked like MB and BMW were making serious gains.  The battle got interesting.  And the German cars began to suffer, quality wise.  The brands began to tarnish, and thanks to the internet/CR/etc, people came to know that BMW and MB quality was suspect.

Now they fight back once again, just like it's 1991 all over.  Will we see a lean and mean 5-series to leave the GS/E/etc behind?  Probably not.  But, maybe something else.  Of course, right now, BMW is obsessed with SUVs...

[rrocket]

In 1998, when the GS400 came out, it caught everyone by surprise.  And for a time..it was even the quickest sedan in the world...until the Jag XJR came out several weeks later.  The performance numbers were on par (and better) than the Germans.  0-60 was better, braking was better and handling numbers were similar.  It won the Import Car of the Year award to.  Really, the only ammunition the Germans had against the GS was "it doesn't come with a manual transmission".

[CanuckS2K]

In 1998, when the GS400 came out, it caught everyone by surprise.  And for a time..it was even the quickest sedan in the world...until the Jag XJR came out several weeks later.  The performance numbers were on par (and better) than the Germans.  0-60 was better, braking was better and handling numbers were similar.  It won the Import Car of the Year award to.  Really, the only ammunition the Germans had against the GS was "it doesn't come with a manual transmission".

The original GS400 and and SC400 are probably still my favourite Lexus'.  Love em! 

[jyarkony]

What is your opinion of the GS interior vs. the 528? I looked at a 528 with the comfort seat upgrade and the M Sport appearance package and thought the interior was very good just a tad austere but the seats were amazing. Both innards are good but I like the 528 for style reasons.

I thought both had their good points - the BMW seemed like higher quality in every corner, the comfort seats are awesome, with nice wood trim in the 528i tester I drove (also with that M Sport package), vs the plastic dash and door trim in the GS. However, although the BMW interior looks nice, and the lexus seats just good, not great, I loved the clock, vent, CD, deck and volume knobs piece in the GS and the stitched leather dash haven't seen anything like it in a car before. But then going back the other way, BMW's iDrive seemed more intuitive and easier to use, but as i mention in the review, it could be familiarity from having used it many times over the past few years, although I don't recall ever being as uncomfortable with its interface as I was with the GS's square, clicky mouse knob.

and normally I'm not one to complain about price in this class, but I could not, for the life of me, configure a 5 Series with the Comfort seats without adding over $10K in options, and the seats aren't worth quite that much, IMO...

[Fobroader]

I saw a second gen one of these with the turbo 2JZ motor and swapped in tranny out of a Supra at a drift competion......by far the coolest car there. Ive alwasy liked the second gen ones and the SC coupe I always thought was a sexy looking car.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

It used to be that BMW were in a class of pretty much one if you wanted a well built performance sedan. They focused on driving dynamics and really didn't overdo it with gizmos except for the 7 series. They used to be niche players in NA that attracted performance enthusiasts.

Now they're pretty much one in the crowd of premium vehicles. Yes, their performance is usually at or close to the top of the classes they compete in, but the differences are only marginal. They've also become mainstream status symbols attracting people who wouldn't know the difference between a crankshaft and a keychain. Because of this, they still command a large premium and most people wouldn't know the difference if you could do a blind test drive. The introduction of trucks and every gadget imaginable to what was seen as a purist marque lead a lot (some?) of people to become disenchanted with the brand

Growing up, I always wanted an M3 or M5. Now? There's nothing at the brand that I couldn't get elsewhere for less money and likely better reliability.