Topic: Test Drive: 2012 Toyota Sienna XLE AWD

[whaddaiknow]

It depends on who is in charge in your family, and the desired condition of your vehicle.  Our C230 was the primary kid-carting machine in our family until my daughter was nine, and it was immaculate inside.  However, that is because, in our family, the adults are in control.

Bingo!

I guess you are alluding (albeit indirectly) that my wife and I are not in control of our kids. I can tell you I am pretty strict as a parent, and my wife even more so. I have 3 under 5yo and all 3 are totally different in their character and behaviour. What works for one won't work with another. And exactly how many kids do you have?

I sometimes take my 2yo and 4yo to daycare/afterschool classes in my 328 and THERE IS NO FRIGGIN' WAY you can keep their boot soles away from the seatbacks. Dirt DOES end up on the upholstry. Kids DO play with each other in the car, use their toys and they DO eat (BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO) on a long trip. Unless you are a stupid nazi and shove a dirty sock up their throat to keep them quiet, don't give them food or drink on a 6 hour trip and take their shoes off before you put them in your car. Do you pull over in -30 outside to feed them so your precious van stays clean? If you do, you don't have kids or they're not yours.
Discipline has nothing to do with that. You don't slap a 2yo for leaving a dirt mark on the seat while wearing winter clothing.

I can see a point for seniors buying a minivan for traveling then a higher trim level would make sense, and the van would generally stay clean. But that's not the main use case for this type if vehicle - family hauler

[CanuckS2K]

It depends on who is in charge in your family, and the desired condition of your vehicle.  Our C230 was the primary kid-carting machine in our family until my daughter was nine, and it was immaculate inside.  However, that is because, in our family, the adults are in control.

Bingo!

I guess you are alluding (albeit indirectly) that my wife and I are not in control of our kids. I can tell you I am pretty strict as a parent, and my wife even more so. I have 3 under 5yo and all 3 are totally different in their character and behaviour. What works for one won't work with another. And exactly how many kids do you have?

I sometimes take my 2yo and 4yo to daycare/afterschool classes in my 328 and THERE IS NO FRIGGIN' WAY you can keep their boot soles away from the seatbacks. Dirt DOES end up on the upholstry. Kids DO play with each other in the car, use their toys and they DO eat (BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO) on a long trip. Unless you are a stupid nazi and shove a dirty sock up their throat to keep them quiet, don't give them food or drink on a 6 hour trip and take their shoes off before you put them in your car. Do you pull over in -30 outside to feed them so your precious van stays clean? If you do, you don't have kids or they're not yours.
Discipline has nothing to do with that. You don't slap a 2yo for leaving a dirt mark on the seat while wearing winter clothing.

I can see a point for seniors buying a minivan for traveling then a higher trim level would make sense, and the van would generally stay clean. But that's not the main use case for this type if vehicle - family hauler

Ummm.....no, not alluding that whatsoever.  Not sure where you got that from.   

It was mentioned in this thread about minivan interiors being destroyed simply because you have kids.  I disagree.  I never said that they couldn't get dirty all.  You are confusing an interior been unnecessarily being torn apart by kids and a little bit of inevitable dirt.  I've seen interiors in my business that make me want throw up.  Food everywhere and smeared into the carpeting, suckers stuck to the seats, markers and crayons used on the seats and door panels, etc.  IMHO, it's the Parent's fault that their vehicle is like this.  And don't get me wrong, some people just don't care about their vehicle so it's no big deal to them.  But again, my point is that just because you have kids, it doesn't mean your interior is automatically destroyed........and if it is, it's the Parent's fault.

To answer your question, I have two kids.  One almost 5 years old and one almost 1 year old.  My daughter has been taught not to put her feet on the back of the seat in front of her.  She knows not to do this in our vehicles, and more importantly, she knows not to do it in other people's vehicles.  She also knows that she can't eat in our vehicles.  If we are on road trips we stop for something to eat at a restaurant or have a picnic at a rest stop.  Does dirt, snow, salt, etc end up in my vehicle?  Absolutely.  It's impossible to prevent it.  But that's not what I was discussing earlier. 

[Blueprint]

Back to the test subject...

Two typos: the base V-6 Sienna is not an LE, but just a "Sienna V-6" stripper that's more basic than the cheaper LE 4-cylinder.  The LE V-6 is around 32.5k$.  As for the other typo, I'm pretty sure that the awd Sienna doesn't have a rigid axle out back.  13.9 l/100km for an awd true-7-passenger vehicle in Canadian winter / urban conditions is pretty darn good.

The big topic with the previous awd Siennas was the rapid wear of the run-flat tires.  With awd, the Sienna doesn't have room for a spare tire, so you either go with expensive run-flats, or take a chance with regular tires - what I mostly see in winter on awd Siennas in my area.

As for GC vs Japanese vans, a friend of mine just sold his early '00s Montana for scrap money, while my '03 Ody is still pristine.  Everything lasts and lasts, and I just changed the original battery over the weekend, more for prevention than anything else.

[johngenx]

CG35 is right.  Interiors get dirty from people getting in and out, but there is a difference between normal use and total slobbery, and when I was in the auto electronics biz, we saw far too many vehicles, especially vans, that suffered at the hands of slobs.  In the waiting room, I noticed that if those folks were there with their kids, the kids were obviously in charge.

You don't have to beat your children (actually no one should for any reason) to get them to respect their environment.

[CanuckS2K]

CG35 is right.  Interiors get dirty from people getting in and out, but there is a difference between normal use and total slobbery, and when I was in the auto electronics biz, we saw far too many vehicles, especially vans, that suffered at the hands of slobs.  In the waiting room, I noticed that if those folks were there with their kids, the kids were obviously in charge.

You don't have to beat your children (actually no one should for any reason) to get them to respect their environment.

+1000.  Applaud awarded.   

[Thinking Out Loud]

CG35 is right.  Interiors get dirty from people getting in and out, but there is a difference between normal use and total slobbery, and when I was in the auto electronics biz, we saw far too many vehicles, especially vans, that suffered at the hands of slobs.  In the waiting room, I noticed that if those folks were there with their kids, the kids were obviously in charge.

You don't have to beat your children (actually no one should for any reason) to get them to respect their environment.

+1000.  Applaud awarded.   

Our 2006 MPV is the GT version (was top o' the line back in the day).  The kids were 2 and 5 when we got it new and has seen 16 hour one-way road trips, 5 hour road trips, lots of short haul multi-kids-friends commuting.  Food permitted in the car?  Yeah.  Drive through packaging on road trips?  Check. Evidence of leaky Tim Horons lids in the cupholders?  Sure.  Muddy boot prints climbing in and out?   Unavoidable.

End of every day though, the trash is tossed by the family (kids included) and the mud cleared up - thanks to the GT's leather seats and (likely) vinyl seatbacks.  Takes a minute to do and an annual trip to the detailer takes care of the stuff I can't vaccum up when I get the chance.

More a problem with the Parking Lot Rash from door dings I hate...

$60g's for a minivan though....mine was $38,000 back then.

[opg210]

We also found it very safe - on one occasion we came across a freezing rain storm between Saskatoon and Calgary. My wife noticed a little twitch going around a corner, which was the stability control saving us as the car behind lost control and went into the ditch. On the rest of the trip back we say about 100 cars in the ditch, not kidding, it was about 250km of white knuckle driving on icy roads, and the van got us home safely. I was very impressed.

Do you really think it was the "van" that got you home safely?  I'd hazard a guess that getting home safely was far more likely due to your good (conservative/safe) driving for the road conditions, and proper tires - and maybe even a little bit of luck (such as not having to swerve into the ditch to avoid someone sliding into your lane).  Not that stability control isn't an important safety feature (all evidence suggests it is), but if there truly were "100s" of cars in the ditch, I'm betting they weren't all RWD muscle cars...some of those vehicles also had stability control or were minivans, too. 
By far the most important safety equipment is a driver with good judgement. I think you may be giving the van too much credit, and you (or your wife) not enough.

Hey SSV, bit late to the party but took the weekend off. Agreed, the wife is a pretty good driver and very cautious. However, I remember feeling the van twitch/slide slightly, and then she appropriately backed off gently and we got on OK. I credit the van for several reasons. We only had all season tires on it (some might call that rash but I agree completely that driving appropriately for road conditions is the key, I grew up on Chev half tons with "ground grips", which are comically useless on ice) so something was working right. A second factor was the number of cars on the ditch and where - we came across several points on the road (once we reached the Trans Canada) where the wind was destabilizing cars right after a bluff of trees, there would be maybe 5in the ditch at these points, yet we never lost control or slid again (admittedly we were doing 40-50 km/h all the way). And no I wasn't exaggerating by saying >100 cars. We even had to drive around a semi that had jackknifed at a crossroads near Drumheller at low speeds. So I do think the van's stability systems contributed somewhat, though ouf course I could never prove that. We weren't watching the dash for the flashing light, I can assure you!
I agree that good judgement is the most important thing. I've driven icy rural roads for 30 years and had everything from old 2WD ( or 1WD?) half tons to a miserable Nissan Stanza and never had an accident, though sometimes I was crawling. When you live in those areas it's not a joke to go too fast on icy roads.

[dkaz]

Our 2006 MPV is the GT version (was top o' the line back in the day).  The kids were 2 and 5 when we got it new and has seen 16 hour one-way road trips, 5 hour road trips, lots of short haul multi-kids-friends commuting.  Food permitted in the car?  Yeah.  Drive through packaging on road trips?  Check. Evidence of leaky Tim Horons lids in the cupholders?  Sure.  Muddy boot prints climbing in and out?   Unavoidable.

End of every day though, the trash is tossed by the family (kids included) and the mud cleared up - thanks to the GT's leather seats and (likely) vinyl seatbacks.  Takes a minute to do and an annual trip to the detailer takes care of the stuff I can't vaccum up when I get the chance.

More a problem with the Parking Lot Rash from door dings I hate...

$60g's for a minivan though....mine was $38,000 back then.

$38k for a MPV though wow. $38k can get you a well equipped Odyssey EX or Sienna LE nowadays. Both have power sliding doors and seating for eight, although the Sienna LE only has manual climate control.

[safristi]

..Canuck...how much to "DETAIL" kids and grandkids...... .....

[bombastic]

GC 2011/12 all the way. For 20k$ none of the Japanese can beat that value. They are at least 10k$ more including taxes. That is for base models.

[johngenx]

It's smart marketing to sell fully optioned models.  The Sienna has a range from a hair under $30K to over $50K, depending on what you want in terms of opulence.  The production costs on the $50K model are not $20K more than the $30K model.  More margin for Toyota.  Smart business.

The problem for consumers is that the top end models depreciate more.  Check the gap for 3-4 year old models, and it's much smaller than the original price difference.  This is good for used buyers.  So, if I was considering an XLW-AWD model, I'd be inclined to shop used.

[mmorriso]

^bang on