Topic: Day-by-Day Review: 2012 Dodge Durango; Day 1

[Sir Osis of Liver]

My last tank on the Outback was 14.8L/100km.

Are you just cruising up and down Albert St. all day to get that kind of milage? 

Sir O lives his life one quarter mile at a time Brah!

  

[whaddaiknow]

The prospect of a $100+ weekly fillup (with my weekly mileage) scares me. Put in perspective, that's $5,000+/year in gas alone. That's easily full university tuition for my 3 kids if you factor in 20% govmnt adds to your RESP and investment appreciation after 15 years!!!
If you don't have kids, that's your retirement money going literally up in smoke.
If you need it, go for it, if you want it, think twice - do you... really?

I guess if investing was everyone's primary goal we would all be on the bus right now..... I think if you can afford a fully loaded Durango Citadel, you can most likely afford fuel and saving for your retirement.

That said, you are right, that is alot of money on fuel. Sad to say my minivan gets similar mileage schlepping kids around town

And that's the point I guess. I wonder how this Citadel is positioned though? And what drives people to buy one? My logic, however flawed it may be, was that if one can afford $5,000+/year on fuel alone, and the vehicle is not used primarily as a family hauler, that person must have way above average household/disposable income. And in that case, the vehicle of this type is a luxury item. But here are two things I can't put together in one sentence - luxury and Dodge.
If I were in the market for a similar vehicle, I would much rather look at a used MB GL, or a new Highlander, or a Q that have something others don't (be it luxury, reliability, space, resale value, etc.) What does Durango offer that would make it stand out from the rest. What motivates people to purchase one?

And if the main designation of same vehicle IS, in fact, family hauling then, in my (flawed) opinion, there are much better options with better fuel economy to boot.

So what IS a Dodge Durango?
And I wouldn't be asking this question if we were in Texas. I get that... the bigger the better thingy

[Ex-airbalancer]

The prospect of a $100+ weekly fillup (with my weekly mileage) scares me. Put in perspective, that's $5,000+/year in gas alone. That's easily full university tuition for my 3 kids if you factor in 20% govmnt adds to your RESP and investment appreciation after 15 years!!!
If you don't have kids, that's your retirement money going literally up in smoke.
If you need it, go for it, if you want it, think twice - do you... really?

I guess if investing was everyone's primary goal we would all be on the bus right now..... I think if you can afford a fully loaded Durango Citadel, you can most likely afford fuel and saving for your retirement.

That said, you are right, that is alot of money on fuel. Sad to say my minivan gets similar mileage schlepping kids around town

And that's the point I guess. I wonder how this Citadel is positioned though? And what drives people to buy one? My logic, however flawed it may be, was that if one can afford $5,000+/year on fuel alone, and the vehicle is not used primarily as a family hauler, that person must have way above average household/disposable income. And in that case, the vehicle of this type is a luxury item. But here are two things I can't put together in one sentence - luxury and Dodge.
If I were in the market for a similar vehicle, I would much rather look at a used MB GL, or a new Highlander, or a Q that have something others don't (be it luxury, reliability, space, resale value, etc.) What does Durango offer that would make it stand out from the rest. What motivates people to purchase one?

And if the main designation of same vehicle IS, in fact, family hauling then, in my (flawed) opinion, there are much better options with better fuel economy to boot.

So what IS a Dodge Durango?
And I wouldn't be asking this question if we were in Texas. I get that... the bigger the better thingy

So why do you drive Bimmer, there are other cars that get you from a to b
Drive what you want ( unless I have a better idea  ) 

[dutch]

"And I wouldn't be asking this question if we were in Texas. I get that... the bigger the better thingy" too funny!

I think Dodge has come along way - as I said before when I drove the Journey, their interiors have me impressed. The debate will be seeing what these are worth 2 years from now. If the old Durango is anything to go by, wait two years and buy them for 1/2 to a 1/3 of the price

[SaskSpecV]

So what IS a Dodge Durango?

A vehicle that can haul 7 - AND tow 6200 lb (with the V6, 7200 with the V8).  Not going to be any Highlanders or Explorers, or minivans, that can say that.  I wouldn't pay 55K for one, but we've had this debate for almost every new vehicle.  Choosing the highest trim line or checking off all the options is rarely the best value.

[dkaz]

And that's the point I guess. I wonder how this Citadel is positioned though? And what drives people to buy one? My logic, however flawed it may be, was that if one can afford $5,000+/year on fuel alone, and the vehicle is not used primarily as a family hauler, that person must have way above average household/disposable income. And in that case, the vehicle of this type is a luxury item. But here are two things I can't put together in one sentence - luxury and Dodge.
If I were in the market for a similar vehicle, I would much rather look at a used MB GL, or a new Highlander, or a Q that have something others don't (be it luxury, reliability, space, resale value, etc.) What does Durango offer that would make it stand out from the rest. What motivates people to purchase one?

You've obviously never been to Alberta. It's domestic country over there, combined with higher income levels.

Also, it seems that Chrysler will finance people who would no way in hell be financed by any of the other auto companies, although I hope these people aren't going for Durangos.

[Spec5]

SaskSpecV is right. Don't think I've ever heard of anyone being turned down by Chrysler financing.

Just thinking about this a little more though. Even at 55K for the Citadel it will probably be hugely discounted AND available at 0% Financing (or very close to) which might not make the overall monthly payment that bad.

[whaddaiknow]

So why do you drive Bimmer, there are other cars that get you from a to b
Drive what you want ( unless I have a better idea  ) 

I drive a bimmer because it offers something others don't - superior driving experience, a sweet I6 engine, 4-year free maintenance, and it's an entry level luxury to boot. Please re-read my post where I ask that same question - what does Durango offer at its price point that makes it stand out and make people want to buy one? Luxury? It may be filled with luxury features but a dressed up Lada won't be cross shopped with a RR by a luxury buyer. Interior space? Same as any other, and some smaller (from the outside), SUV's. Hauling a boat? Well, that's a good one. What else?
So far, I can see if you have a family of 4 and have a boat... Even then, there are smaller vehicles that can do that too.

To SaskSpecV:
"...A vehicle that can haul 7..." that's a stretch. James says
"...I expected more for second row leg room, and as in many third rows, well, you do not really want to sit back there..."
and this
"...but it does seem small inside when you take into account its outside dimensions. My curling broom, for example, didn’t fit behind the third row seats, yet it fit easily in the Toyota Camry last week..." Hello?!?! 

Still sticking to your guns after this regarding space?

To DKaz:
I lived in Calgary NW by the Market Mall for 3 years from '99 to '02. My ex and my 16-year-old daughter live in Calgary. And I do get Calgary - a lot of oilfield contractors in their trucks zipping up and down Deerfoot. So Calgary of today is like Texas, I get it. Until next recession that is. I do remember '99 very well when 40,000 people were laid off from the oil industry when oil hit $11 a barrel (I know I was a petroleum engineer back then). Weren't that many trucks on the road then. Calgary is an up-and-down place, so it's not a matter of 'if' but solely a matter of when a new recession hits again. Strike it while it's hot.

-----------------

"Just gotta have one". Same as R1 or CBR1000 - "I'll never track it or use it to 50% of its potential" but everyone must know that I got the bestest and the baddest. The North American attitude. Gas prices will change that quickly.

[ktm525]

The 2nd and 3rd row comments are just silly. Most of the time these rows are occupied by "little people" the legroom doesn't have to be limo like. Our family owns a LR3 which has a similar layout and it is just about perfect as a family vehicle. The 7 seat capacity is used weekly when making car pool/school runs and when stowed he cargo space hauls multiple hockey bags and goalie gear. On the weekends it hauls around a couple of parents, 3-4 soccer players, 16 soccer balls and a large team uniform bag. In the summer the LR3 has hauled boats/ double axle car haulers and a borrowed camper. Last summer on a whim we explored a few deactivated logging roads and poked around some abandoned town/mine sites.

In short this type of vehicle can do ANYTHING that an active family demands of it. A swiss army knife if you will. The only drawback is that you pay for it at the pump.

FWIW I would still take a 2 year old LR4 over this thing.

[whaddaiknow]

...FWIW I would still take a 2 year old LR4 over this thing.

Priceless 

Agree on the active family side of things.
Though in my case, the third row is frequented by adults on longer drives (1 hour or longer) to ski resorts, airports, etc. So having a "no compromises" comfortable 3rd row is very important.
Every now and then we go to NJ with 4 adults and 3 kids. The 2-month-old and the 2-year-old occupy the second row. That's a 700km drive from Ottawa. Minivan is king!

[ktm525]

I swore that I would never buy another Dodge after the service manager of the local dealer called me some really bad things. The funny thing was the improper "repairs" he accused me of doing was done by his shop a month earlier. The look on his face when I showed him the receipts was priceless.

Either way. No more Dodge for me.

[Cord]

I drive a bimmer because it offers something others don't - superior driving experience, a sweet I6 engine, 4-year free maintenance, and it's an entry level luxury to boot.

how is that a superior argument to:

"I drive a Durango because it offers a sweet V8 engine, can carry 7 people, can tow my big trailer, can be serviced anywhere, and it's full of luxury equipment."

[whaddaiknow]

I drive a bimmer because it offers something others don't - superior driving experience, a sweet I6 engine, 4-year free maintenance, and it's an entry level luxury to boot.

how is that a superior argument to:

"I drive a Durango because it offers a sweet V8 engine, can carry 7 people, can tow my big trailer, can be serviced anywhere, and it's full of luxury equipment."

Very easy.
1) Does the V8 stand out from any other V8 offerings? Is it any better and will it be admired and missed as the bimmer's I6? I doubt it.

2) Can it carry 7 people in comfort (especially given its behemoth size)? Apparently not.

3) Sure, it can tow a trailer. I'll give it that.

4) Sure it's full of luxury equipment but does it make it a luxury car? Not by any stretch.

So from the above, the Citadel is a dressed up tow truck. Awesome!  

[Cord]

^^ Very weak reasoning.

I certainly don't admire and won't miss bimmer's I6. I love Dodge's V8.

I don't care about comfort I just need 7 seats for me, my wife and my 5 kids. In fact, I say the Durango is as comfortable for 7 as your BMW is comfortable for only 5.

Yes, I want to pull my big trailer with it. What's the biggest trailer any entry-level BMW can tow?

It's a Durango. That's an SUV. Only an idiot would fault it for not being a luxury car. (Or an "entry-level" luxury car) 

So why are your preferences superior to mine again?

[Sir Osis of Liver]

I drive a bimmer because it offers something others don't - superior driving experience, a sweet I6 engine, 4-year free maintenance, and it's an entry level luxury to boot.

how is that a superior argument to:

"I drive a Durango because it offers a sweet V8 engine, can carry 7 people, can tow my big trailer, can be serviced anywhere, and it's full of luxury equipment."

Very easy.
1) Does the V8 stand out from any other V8 offerings? Is it any better and will it be admired and missed as the bimmer's I6? I doubt it.

2) Can it carry 7 people in comfort (especially given its behemoth size)? Apparently not.

3) Sure, it can tow a trailer. I'll give it that.

4) Sure it's full of luxury equipment but does it make it a luxury car? Not by any stretch.

So from the above, the Citadel is a dressed up tow truck. Awesome!  

What does the BWM 328iX do that a Legacy GT doesn't? The Legacy is much cheaper, has more equipment, has 75 more horsepower, much more interior space, a terrific awd system and a great ride/handling compromise.

Of course you wanted a BMW, just like some people will want a Durango for whatever rationalizations speak to them.

[ktm525]

dontknowmuch is stirring the pot


The Durango looks good to me.Give me a $15k off of MSRP special and I may have to go back on my Dodge pledge.

[aaronk]

Looking at something like a Tahoe or Suburban, the Durango actually does start to make sense. The 5.7 has more power and towing, yet if one wanted a basic trim level it is available for significantly less than a Tahoe that starts at (an outrageous, IMHO) $50K. I would choose a Suburban if I was really concerned about space for people - 7 passengers in a Durango would be tight - but I'm sure it will work for some. More than likely though it will be purchased by folks who just want a massive vehicle for the point of having a massive vehicle and has nothing to do with it's capabilities, which is a shame. I've heard enough people complain about gas prices who drive oversized, overpowered vehicles, and then wonder why their 3-year trade-in is less than half of what they paid. Get what you want/need and don't complain.

[Fobroader]

Ive gotta say, I really like the way the new Durango looks. After having to deal with Chryslers horrid dealers because of my fiances Jeep and the fact that it is cramped in the 2nd and 3rd rows, the Tahoe, Seqouia and Armada are a much, MUCH, better vehicle than this thing......too bad, its a good looking little van.

[SaskSpecV]

the Tahoe, Seqouia and Armada are a much, MUCH, better vehicle than this thing

I'm not so sure about that.  Those BOF SUV's certainly have their strength (towing), but aren't appreciably better in that regard than the Durango.  The Tahoe's 2nd and 3rd rows are quite cramped.  3rd row legroom - 650 mm Tahoe, 818 mm Armada, 896 mm Sequoia, and 800 mm Durango.  2nd row legroom is similar for the Duragno, Sequoia, and Tahoe, with the Armada having about 100 mm more (from GM comparison page).  A Suburban would have significantly more room, but not a Tahoe.  None of these vehicles are truly designed to transport 7 people in comfort - if you want to do that, get a minivan.  But then you won't be towing 6000 + pounds as well. 
I've never driven any of these vehicles so I don't know for sure, but the reviews for the Durango's drive have been very positive.  I'd be surprised if it drove/handled any worse than the BOF SUVs.

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/2011-dodge-durango-crew-awd-vs-2011-ford-explorer-xlt-4wd-2011-honda-pilot-touring-4wd-comparison-test-car-and-driver-2011-dodge-durango-crew-awd-page-4

[whaddaiknow]

dontknowmuch is stirring the pot

I kinda am, that's true. I am trying get past the looks. I admit it looks very sharp!!! But why is it necessarily a bad thing to point out negatives especially when they are screaming at you?
What's the appeal of this particular vehicle? For its VERY large size, it's not particularly roomy inside, and the 3rd seat is still a joke. The Camry has put more thought into the cargo area making it more user friendly (case in point James' curling broom).

A vehicle in this class is rarely something people lust after (I don't remember seeing it in the "What car have you been obsessing about today" thread), so funciton would normally come before form. But people on this forum seem to be focused on its looks and luxury features more than its utility. Or am I wrong and the Citadel is a true enthusiast's rig? C'mon now, gimme a break.
Cool over rational? If you have money to burn, go for it!

Cord:
I was NOT comparing my BMW to a Durango, that would be silly (don't know why you did that). I was just showcasing how it stood out in its class, and how the Durango doesn't stand out in its own class.
Simple logic.

On Legacy GT. Love that car! One problem though, as priced on subaru.ca the 3.6R comes at $572.84/month on a 4-year lease which is MORE than what I'm paying for the BMW, with no free maintenance for 4 years, and leaving out other driving and handling characteristics as that would be apples and oranges. Besides, a Legacy GT would be too much car for hauling my ar$e to and from work, 328 is just right.

Still, I'd like to hear a couple of good reasons why someone would pick the Durango over the competition other than it's towing capacity. Not stirring the pot here.