Topic: Used Vehicle Review: Audi A6, 2005-2011

[aquadorhj]

I don't understand how the Germans manufactures can continue to claim superior engineering when their products have sub-par reliability and require expensive solutions to repair. Why can't the Germans dedicate as much effort into quality as they do into look and feel?

"Superior German engineering" pertains to their engines, transmissions, suspensions, etc. which are indeed superior.  Unfortunately, with these new and very advanced technologies, come expensive repairs and niggling problems.

which engine, which transmission and which suspension technology are we talking about?

Audi V6's have not been advanced until very recently.  fairly robust, sure, but not advanced.
and even now, their "advanced" direct injection engines have some problems with carbon deposits and nothing to write home about with regards to power output without forced induction.

DSG transmission is advanced for sure.  but 8speed auto was first employed by lexus.

suspension, ... maybe.   but if it costs more to produce and more to maintain, can it really be considered "superior"?

German cars are at the cutting edge of engine, tranny and suspension technology.  I'm not talking specifically about Audi but about MB, BMW, Porsche too.  Just because it costs more to maintain or produce doesn't mean its not technologically superior.  High tech things cost more to make anyways.  Be it engines, drugs, infotainment, telecommunications, whatever.

Again, i'm not trying to argue or nitpick, but trying to see if i missed anything.  What specific engine, tranny and suspension technology are we talking about?

state of the art air suspension, MB nicked from chrysler.
state of the art magnetorheological dampers, GM's subsidiary made it.
state of the art interior cloth(alcantara) developed in japan
state of the art transmission, sure DSG..  but it's by borg werner..  us company.
direct injection multiport that doesn't suffer carbon deposit issue...  Toyota.

i'm not trying to discredit german engineering...  but i'm just saying sometimes they don't employee best judgements when implementing them in cars.

As you say, high tech things costs more to produce..  but any company in the WORLD can produce the most tech advanced things if budgets were of no concern.  see lexus LF-A, bugatti veyron, etc.

it's achieving, surpassing those at lower costs, that is what i consider "superior" engineering.

[miatii]

My wife's uncle, before he retired, was a production manager at Ford of Germany.  Every time he vacationed in Canada, it never ceased to amaze him how high the mileage was on Canadian cars within 2-4 years of ownership.  As in many European countries and cities, public transportation is used much more there than here and the distances traveled are much less.  He always thought my 100km daily round-trip commute was ridiculous. We think nothing of traveling 1200km on a four day trip. They have the advantage of flying the same distance for as much as 80Euros or less (as my daughter discovered as she is now living in Spain for a time.)  Why drive when you can fly for less?  So are German cars more reliable in Germany?  Or are their cars just used substantially less every month as compared to a lot of our cars?

[JohnM]

"are their cars just used substantially less every month as compared to a lot of our cars?"

Good point and absolutely correct although I don't have figures.  Also their roads are in much better shape and they have far less salt and sand to drive through.

These days a large number of used German cars are exported to eastern Europe when they have relatively little mileage.  The people who buy them probably mickey mouse a lot of repairs and it is almost certain, parts cost a lot less over there.

Cheers,
John M.

[johngenx]

...and interestingly enough most people that complain about their reliability have never owned one...they just go by hearsay.

Over 1 million kilometers logged in Mercedes, BMW and Porsche automobiles.  Not sure if I'll return to any of the brands...

[blur911]

Yeah,  yeah, yeah, unreliable, over-engineered, expensive to maintain,
I still really, really want.

http://kingston.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-cars-trucks-2003-Audi-RS6-Sedan-W0QQAdIdZ344593434

[johngenx]

Oh. I'd strongly consider a C63!  The engine is enough to overlook the potential shortcomings.  But, I'd really like it as a "third car." Keep the mileage lower, drive it when it can be enjoyed.  Sitting in a winter commute is not the place for that car.

Just no way, at this point, to justify that much dough for a toy.  Not sure I wouldn't rather have an S2K anyway.  Not the brute the C63 is, but the handling and the wind...

Germany still produces some pretty amazing cars.  Just wish they'd pay more attention to detail.

[ktm525]

Don't forget the Catera. That was German.

[tazcubed]

I don't understand how the Germans manufactures can continue to claim superior engineering when their products have sub-par reliability and require expensive solutions to repair. Why can't the Germans dedicate as much effort into quality as they do into look and feel?

"Superior German engineering" pertains to their engines, transmissions, suspensions, etc. which are indeed superior.  Unfortunately, with these new and very advanced technologies, come expensive repairs and niggling problems.

While I agree that there's a lot of international sourcing of parts for each car, I believe part of the problem stems from the competition to become the "number one automobile producer of the world". It appears each manufacturer is pushing limits to produce more vehicles in more varieties, subsequently the overall quality of the engineering and the durability of these cars have diminished. Are there cars that manage to tally high mileage? Yes, but they're increasingly rare to get to that state without far more maintenance and sky-high repair bills. So far as "niggling problems" - that's why you see so many of these luxury vehicles for sale before their warranties are up - who wants to foot the bill?!. 

which engine, which transmission and which suspension technology are we talking about?

Audi V6's have not been advanced until very recently.  fairly robust, sure, but not advanced.
and even now, their "advanced" direct injection engines have some problems with carbon deposits and nothing to write home about with regards to power output without forced induction.

DSG transmission is advanced for sure.  but 8speed auto was first employed by lexus.

suspension, ... maybe.   but if it costs more to produce and more to maintain, can it really be considered "superior"?

German cars are at the cutting edge of engine, tranny and suspension technology.  I'm not talking specifically about Audi but about MB, BMW, Porsche too.  Just because it costs more to maintain or produce doesn't mean its not technologically superior.  High tech things cost more to make anyways.  Be it engines, drugs, infotainment, telecommunications, whatever.

Again, i'm not trying to argue or nitpick, but trying to see if i missed anything.  What specific engine, tranny and suspension technology are we talking about?

state of the art air suspension, MB nicked from chrysler.
state of the art magnetorheological dampers, GM's subsidiary made it.
state of the art interior cloth(alcantara) developed in japan
state of the art transmission, sure DSG..  but it's by borg werner..  us company.
direct injection multiport that doesn't suffer carbon deposit issue...  Toyota.

i'm not trying to discredit german engineering...  but i'm just saying sometimes they don't employee best judgements when implementing them in cars.

As you say, high tech things costs more to produce..  but any company in the WORLD can produce the most tech advanced things if budgets were of no concern.  see lexus LF-A, bugatti veyron, etc.

it's achieving, surpassing those at lower costs, that is what i consider "superior" engineering.

[tpl]

Old quote.
Any engineer can make a water pump for a Rolls Royce but it takes a superior engineer to make one for a Chevvy.

[ktm525]

Merkur XR4Ti was german too. That rivals the Catera as an unreliable lump.

[Soram6275]

and interestingly enough most people that complain about their reliability have never owned one...they just go by hearsay.

Reliability reports are based on representative samples of owner's experiences not hearsay. 

...and which "Reliability Reports" are those?...Consumer Reports may be one.  Any others?  Did I mention Reliability reports or "most people that complain"...please read...

[Jaeger]

I don't understand how the Germans manufactures can continue to claim superior engineering when their products have sub-par reliability and require expensive solutions to repair. Why can't the Germans dedicate as much effort into quality as they do into look and feel?

Not only do they continue to claim it, legions of their fans continue lap it up and reapeat it ad nauseam on car discusion boards.

Jaeger

[Fobroader]

Yeah,  yeah, yeah, unreliable, over-engineered, expensive to maintain,
I still really, really want.

http://kingston.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-cars-trucks-2003-Audi-RS6-Sedan-W0QQAdIdZ344593434

That is spectacular......and no one else does large, fast sedans like the Germans. Please dont mention Caddilac, the interiors on those would be emberassing on a Hyundai. Its a you have to pay to play type of situation, Ill still take my 911 C2S in yellow, manual, black rims and PCCB brakes please....

[ktm525]

Yeah,  yeah, yeah, unreliable, over-engineered, expensive to maintain,
I still really, really want.

http://kingston.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-cars-trucks-2003-Audi-RS6-Sedan-W0QQAdIdZ344593434

That is spectacular......and no one else does large, fast sedans like the Germans. Please dont mention Caddilac, the interiors on those would be emberassing on a Hyundai. Its a you have to pay to play type of situation, Ill still take my 911 C2S in yellow, manual, black rims and PCCB brakes please....

Cadillac CTS-V

[richink]

I'm not sure how to take these used car reviews, they more often than not lambaste Euro cars for their stereotypical issues, or are they stereotypical? My Honda is a stereotypically reliable car by perception, gets excellent long term reliability, but somehow has not held up as well and has cost more overall to keep going than my Volvo has, stereotypically a car with spotty reliability confirmed with lookup's on both CR and Edmunds.

A gently used A4 Avant is high on our list as a replacement, so this is all good food for thought on the brand in general.

[Snowman]

Yeah,  yeah, yeah, unreliable, over-engineered, expensive to maintain,
I still really, really want.

http://kingston.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-cars-trucks-2003-Audi-RS6-Sedan-W0QQAdIdZ344593434

That is spectacular......and no one else does large, fast sedans like the Germans. Please dont mention Caddilac, the interiors on those would be emberassing on a Hyundai. Its a you have to pay to play type of situation, Ill still take my 911 C2S in yellow, manual, black rims and PCCB brakes please....

Cadillac CTS-V!

"the interiors on those would be emberassing on a Hyundai"

its official, you are a moron.

[Fobroader]

Yeah,  yeah, yeah, unreliable, over-engineered, expensive to maintain,
I still really, really want.

http://kingston.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-cars-trucks-2003-Audi-RS6-Sedan-W0QQAdIdZ344593434

That is spectacular......and no one else does large, fast sedans like the Germans. Please dont mention Caddilac, the interiors on those would be emberassing on a Hyundai. Its a you have to pay to play type of situation, Ill still take my 911 C2S in yellow, manual, black rims and PCCB brakes please....

Cadillac CTS-V!

"the interiors on those would be emberassing on a Hyundai"

its official, you are a moron.

Why, because I dont like some cheap, plastic interior made by a car manufacturer that long ago started to cater to Avis, Budget and Hertz?

[Snowman]

Yeah,  yeah, yeah, unreliable, over-engineered, expensive to maintain,
I still really, really want.

http://kingston.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-cars-trucks-2003-Audi-RS6-Sedan-W0QQAdIdZ344593434

That is spectacular......and no one else does large, fast sedans like the Germans. Please dont mention Caddilac, the interiors on those would be emberassing on a Hyundai. Its a you have to pay to play type of situation, Ill still take my 911 C2S in yellow, manual, black rims and PCCB brakes please....

Cadillac CTS-V!

"the interiors on those would be emberassing on a Hyundai"

its official, you are a moron.

Why, because I dont like some cheap, plastic interior made by a car manufacturer that long ago started to cater to Avis, Budget and Hertz?

You forgot to say: In my opinion.

[ktm525]

While the CTS-V interior is a smidgen below the Audi it is far above a Hertz rental Chevy. At least with the Caddy you get real leather seats. In most Audis you get leather seating surfaces with vinyl on the rest. I am sure that Audi has full leather seats on the RS6 though. When I came close to buying a 2008 Audi A6 Avant it had the optional "full leather" seats for an extra $8k

IMO.

[Fobroader]

Yeah,  yeah, yeah, unreliable, over-engineered, expensive to maintain,
I still really, really want.

http://kingston.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-cars-trucks-2003-Audi-RS6-Sedan-W0QQAdIdZ344593434

That is spectacular......and no one else does large, fast sedans like the Germans. Please dont mention Caddilac, the interiors on those would be emberassing on a Hyundai. Its a you have to pay to play type of situation, Ill still take my 911 C2S in yellow, manual, black rims and PCCB brakes please....

Cadillac CTS-V!

"the interiors on those would be emberassing on a Hyundai"

its official, you are a moron.

Why, because I dont like some cheap, plastic interior made by a car manufacturer that long ago started to cater to Avis, Budget and Hertz?

You forgot to say: In my opinion.

Why, because I dont like some cheap, plastic interior made by a car manufacturer that long ago started to cater to Avis, Budget and Hertz? Sorry, IMO......better??