Topic: Sports Sedan Purchase

[Hammy]

I took out an Acura TL-AWD today, very nice vehicle.  Didnt have folding rear seats for some reason and truck seemed smallish.  Really nice interior though and looks sharp, lots of power.

[SeaBlueS4]

I took out an Acura TL-AWD today, very nice vehicle.  Didnt have folding rear seats for some reason and truck seemed smallish.  Really nice interior though and looks sharp, lots of power.

Yep, although it came last in the R&T comparo test, it was the preferred option from one of the drivers / writers. Said it was the "best" sports sedan because of it's all around comfort while still being decently quick, which I read to mean as "fast as you need anything to be on a public road". Looks are obviously subjective, I think it looks better now after the update than when it first came out, not my favourite of the bunch though. And split seats are missing from a lot of Asian sports sedans - they don't believe anyone wants practicality and a fast car I guess.

Not sure how it lines up on price these days, but while it came 4th in the R&T test, that was against the 335i and S4, where I think you are debating between it and the 328 / A4, so a different set of competitors.

[rrocket]

I took out an Acura TL-AWD today, very nice vehicle.  Didnt have folding rear seats for some reason and truck seemed smallish.  Really nice interior though and looks sharp, lots of power.

Yep, although it came last in the R&T comparo test, it was the preferred option from one of the drivers / writers. Said it was the "best" sports sedan because of it's all around comfort while still being decently quick, which I read to mean as "fast as you need anything to be on a public road". Looks are obviously subjective, I think it looks better now after the update than when it first came out, not my favourite of the bunch though. And split seats are missing from a lot of Asian sports sedans - they don't believe anyone wants practicality and a fast car I guess.

Not sure how it lines up on price these days, but while it came 4th in the R&T test, that was against the 335i and S4, where I think you are debating between it and the 328 / A4, so a different set of competitors.

I remember the test.  The Acura was just barely edged out around the racetrack by the Audi, besting the G37 and 335.  IMO that's VERY high praise indeed, since it's not a car you'd think would get around a track particularly quick.  It is quite the handler and shows the capability of the SH AWD system.

[Railton]

I took out an Acura TL-AWD today, very nice vehicle.  Didnt have folding rear seats for some reason and truck seemed smallish.  Really nice interior though and looks sharp, lots of power.

Yep, although it came last in the R&T comparo test, it was the preferred option from one of the drivers / writers. Said it was the "best" sports sedan because of it's all around comfort while still being decently quick, which I read to mean as "fast as you need anything to be on a public road". Looks are obviously subjective, I think it looks better now after the update than when it first came out, not my favourite of the bunch though. And split seats are missing from a lot of Asian sports sedans - they don't believe anyone wants practicality and a fast car I guess.

Not sure how it lines up on price these days, but while it came 4th in the R&T test, that was against the 335i and S4, where I think you are debating between it and the 328 / A4, so a different set of competitors.

I remember the test.  The Acura was just barely edged out around the racetrack by the Audi, besting the G37 and 335.  IMO that's VERY high praise indeed, since it's not a car you'd think would get around a track particularly quick.  It is quite the handler and shows the capability of the SH AWD system.

I remember that test too...one one where the Rag does not nothing to match price of the cars tested. Instead of a Accura and Infiniti up against an A4 and a 328 they load up a 335i and a S4. Pu-lleeeasse. Who's going to cross shop those two in the same breath? Maybe they should've found them selves a supercharged G37S and tried that against the S4.
Railton

[rrocket]

I remember that test too...one one where the Rag does not nothing to match price of the cars tested. Instead of a Accura and Infiniti up against an A4 and a 328 they load up a 335i and a S4. Pu-lleeeasse. Who's going to cross shop those two in the same breath? Maybe they should've found them selves a supercharged G37S and tried that against the S4.
Railton

I didn't think comparing these cars is out to lunch, price wise.  After all, they are comparing 300+ HP cars. A G37X AWD with Sport package is ~$49K.  An S4 is $53K. An Acura TL AWD+Tech is $47K and the BMW 335i X drive is ~$52K.

[CanuckS2K]

I remember that test too...one one where the Rag does not nothing to match price of the cars tested. Instead of a Accura and Infiniti up against an A4 and a 328 they load up a 335i and a S4. Pu-lleeeasse. Who's going to cross shop those two in the same breath? Maybe they should've found them selves a supercharged G37S and tried that against the S4.
Railton

I didn't think comparing these cars is out to lunch, price wise.  After all, they are comparing 300+ HP cars. A G37X AWD with Sport package is ~$49K.  An S4 is $53K. An Acura TL AWD+Tech is $47K and the BMW 335i X drive is ~$52K.

I don't think comparing these cars is out to lunch either, however your pricing is a base S4 and 335xi to optioned up TLs and G37s.  The G37x's base price is $43k and so is the TL's.  Just sayin'. 

[Railton]

I remember that test too...one one where the Rag does not nothing to match price of the cars tested. Instead of a Accura and Infiniti up against an A4 and a 328 they load up a 335i and a S4. Pu-lleeeasse. Who's going to cross shop those two in the same breath? Maybe they should've found them selves a supercharged G37S and tried that against the S4.
Railton

I didn't think comparing these cars is out to lunch, price wise.  After all, they are comparing 300+ HP cars. A G37X AWD with Sport package is ~$49K.  An S4 is $53K. An Acura TL AWD+Tech is $47K and the BMW 335i X drive is ~$52K.

Dude, go put your glasses on.
Read the same damn article.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/tests/comparison/four-door-firepower
Audi S4 - $58675
Acura - $44,195
BMW 335I - $47,625
G37S - $40,085
That's $18K between the G and the S4.
Railton

[rrocket]

I remember that test too...one one where the Rag does not nothing to match price of the cars tested. Instead of a Accura and Infiniti up against an A4 and a 328 they load up a 335i and a S4. Pu-lleeeasse. Who's going to cross shop those two in the same breath? Maybe they should've found them selves a supercharged G37S and tried that against the S4.
Railton

I didn't think comparing these cars is out to lunch, price wise.  After all, they are comparing 300+ HP cars. A G37X AWD with Sport package is ~$49K.  An S4 is $53K. An Acura TL AWD+Tech is $47K and the BMW 335i X drive is ~$52K.

Dude, go put your glasses on.
Read the same damn article.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/tests/comparison/four-door-firepower
Audi S4 - $58675
Acura - $44,195
BMW 335I - $47,625
G37S - $40,085
That's $18K between the G and the S4.
Railton

I don't need to put my glasses on.  I'm aware of what was tested.  Of course there's a big price spread.  The G37S was RWD and it was compared to a couple AWD cars.    If we compare it to the way you want (against regular A4), there's a $10K difference against the G37x AWD.  That's even less "fair" compared to a G37X AWD and an S4...in both HP and price.  Apples to apples, AWD to AWD, HP to HP...the prices I quoted are in line.  And besides...not sure why you are saying the G37 needs a supercharged engine vs. the S4...since they both make nearly the same HP (333 vs 330).

I was posting Canadian prices with similar levels of equipment.  All AWD, all manual transmission, ..cars you or I would shop for.  And they are all in line.  I chose the G with the "Sport" package because that's what most closely matches the content of the S4...and that's the way I'd want my G.   The only car with Navi was the TL .  I chose the "Tech" package is because that's the only trim you can get a manual in. 

Sometime magazines get stuck with whatever car the manufacturer sends them.  They can't pick and choose trim packages for test fleet cars.  That's not the case when you or I go shopping.  And the Canadian prices I posted reflect that and are in line with each other in price or content.


So again...if I was shopping for an AWD sports sedan, I think the prices compare favorably with one another. FWIW, the IS350 AWD with Moonroof is $48,700.  So it's also in the ballpark..though no manual. 

[Railton]

I remember that test too...one one where the Rag does not nothing to match price of the cars tested. Instead of a Accura and Infiniti up against an A4 and a 328 they load up a 335i and a S4. Pu-lleeeasse. Who's going to cross shop those two in the same breath? Maybe they should've found them selves a supercharged G37S and tried that against the S4.
Railton

I didn't think comparing these cars is out to lunch, price wise.  After all, they are comparing 300+ HP cars. A G37X AWD with Sport package is ~$49K.  An S4 is $53K. An Acura TL AWD+Tech is $47K and the BMW 335i X drive is ~$52K.

Dude, go put your glasses on.
Read the same damn article.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/tests/comparison/four-door-firepower
Audi S4 - $58675
Acura - $44,195
BMW 335I - $47,625
G37S - $40,085
That's $18K between the G and the S4.
Railton

I don't need to put my glasses on.  I'm aware of what was tested.  Of course there's a big price spread.  The G37S was RWD and it was compared to a couple AWD cars.    If we compare it to the way you want (against regular A4), there's a $10K difference against the G37x AWD.  That's even less "fair" compared to a G37X AWD and an S4...in both HP and price.  Apples to apples, AWD to AWD, HP to HP...the prices I quoted are in line.  And besides...not sure why you are saying the G37 needs a supercharged engine vs. the S4...since they both make nearly the same HP (333 vs 330).

I was posting Canadian prices with similar levels of equipment.  All AWD, all manual transmission, ..cars you or I would shop for.  And they are all in line.  I chose the G with the "Sport" package because that's what most closely matches the content of the S4...and that's the way I'd want my G.   The only car with Navi was the TL .  I chose the "Tech" package is because that's the only trim you can get a manual in. 

Sometime magazines get stuck with whatever car the manufacturer sends them.  They can't pick and choose trim packages for test fleet cars.  That's not the case when you or I go shopping.  And the Canadian prices I posted reflect that and are in line with each other in price or content.


So again...if I was shopping for an AWD sports sedan, I think the prices compare favorably with one another. FWIW, the IS350 AWD with Moonroof is $48,700.  So it's also in the ballpark..though no manual. 

I'm glad to read that you're agreeing with me and that you also admit $18k is a hell of a spread. Stupid-ass magazine publishers/editors.
Railton

[rrocket]

I'm glad to read that you're agreeing with me and that you also admit $18k is a hell of a spread. Stupid-ass magazine publishers/editors.
Railton

Again...their hands are often tied in what press cars they get.  They ask for an S4, and it's a roll of the dice if it's a "base" or a fully loaded one they get to use.  Or if they get a G37 or an IPL G37.

I don't think an $18K price spread is any more ridiculous than comparing RWD cars vs. AWD cars..

[Railton]

I'm glad to read that you're agreeing with me and that you also admit $18k is a hell of a spread. Stupid-ass magazine publishers/editors.
Railton

Again...their hands are often tied in what press cars they get.  They ask for an S4, and it's a roll of the dice if it's a "base" or a fully loaded one they get to use.  Or if they get a G37 or an IPL G37.

I don't think an $18K price spread is any more ridiculous than comparing RWD cars vs. AWD cars..

I'm too tired to argue. G'night.
Railton

[SeaBlueS4]

I'm glad to read that you're agreeing with me and that you also admit $18k is a hell of a spread. Stupid-ass magazine publishers/editors.
Railton

Again...their hands are often tied in what press cars they get.  They ask for an S4, and it's a roll of the dice if it's a "base" or a fully loaded one they get to use.  Or if they get a G37 or an IPL G37.

I don't think an $18K price spread is any more ridiculous than comparing RWD cars vs. AWD cars..

RRocket, you're right I think they picked the cars that people would compare and then got what ever version / equipment levels that happened to be available. I for one compared exactly the 4 cars that made up that test (except I looked at the AWD versions of each, and I think the test would have been better if they did the same). I did also test drive an A4 and 328, as well as the Q5 and X3 (ideally wanted a wagon) but quickly ruled them out.

If gadgets and equip levels were my top priority, it would have ruled out the 335xi and S4 as there's no way I wanted to pay the price of the fully loaded versions. Optioned as I wanted them, the BMW and S4 were still more expensive than the TL and G37x, but not, in my opinion significantly so. I couldn't actually option the TL or the G as I'd want to buy them so in my mind it meant I was paying for a lot of stuff I didn't want. I'm of the value >>> price camp, I don't mind paying more if it's for something I want and perceive to add value.

I disagree with your comment about the TL "barely beating" the S4 on the track though. 1.1 secs on a 60sec lap is pretty significant to me. Day to day driving on the road you could argue it's less significant but having driven them both, the S4 (and 335ix) was far more sure footed and confidence inspiring to drive fast. May have been in part due to having to drive an auto version of the TL as, despite a manual being offered, I couldn't find one to drive anywhere.

[safristi]

  I thought the VELOSTER won this category going AWAY........... ..c'mon READ ALL ABOOT IT.....

[Snowman]

I took out an Acura TL-AWD today, very nice vehicle.  Didnt have folding rear seats for some reason and truck seemed smallish.  Really nice interior though and looks sharp, lots of power.

Yep, although it came last in the R&T comparo test, it was the preferred option from one of the drivers / writers. Said it was the "best" sports sedan because of it's all around comfort while still being decently quick, which I read to mean as "fast as you need anything to be on a public road". Looks are obviously subjective, I think it looks better now after the update than when it first came out, not my favourite of the bunch though. And split seats are missing from a lot of Asian sports sedans - they don't believe anyone wants practicality and a fast car I guess.

Not sure how it lines up on price these days, but while it came 4th in the R&T test, that was against the 335i and S4, where I think you are debating between it and the 328 / A4, so a different set of competitors.

I remember the test.  The Acura was just barely edged out around the racetrack by the Audi, besting the G37 and 335.  IMO that's VERY high praise indeed, since it's not a car you'd think would get around a track particularly quick.  It is quite the handler and shows the capability of the SH AWD system.

The guy I bought the S2000 from had a new TL and I asked him about it. He smiled and said its no S2000 but was amazed how it held the road for a boat.

[Julie]

Hammy, didn't read all the answers,

But that's a nice list you got there.  Can't go wrong with any of those choices.

My 2 cents is.....  you gotta go with your instinct.  There's going to be some that you like more than others, despite all their objective strengths and weaknesses in various car mags.

I took a look at Car A.  Oh, I love Car A.  Car A is X price.

Car B looked like a much better value.  I drove Car B.  Great car.  But man, do I like Car A better.  So Car A ended up being the better "value" for me.

I'm blowing grand on a car!  I'd better like it the best! 

[Hammy]

Yeah the BMW is my car A ..... I can't seem to get past it, its just so much fun to drive.  Yes it has horrible cup holders and no fancy buttons but damn that is one sweet ride.

[sailor723]

Julie's advice is exactly how my wife chose the 328. Other cars she looked at were strong contenders but in the end she simply "liked" the BMW better. I'd say go with your gut!

[ovr50]

Yeah the BMW is my car A ..... I can't seem to get past it, its just so much fun to drive.  Yes it has horrible cup holders and no fancy buttons but damn that is one sweet ride.

Cup holders...bah, who cares. Go with your gut. 

[mmret]

Yeah the BMW is my car A ..... I can't seem to get past it, its just so much fun to drive.  Yes it has horrible cup holders and no fancy buttons but damn that is one sweet ride.

Cup holders...bah, who cares. Go with your gut. 

This is true. One of the few remaining N52B30 cars. You know what must be done.

[sailor723]

I was surprised to see that MB got 0 votes then I noticed that in the poll set by the OP the MB choice was a C250 4matic. Wouldn't a C300 be more inline with the other options?

I know when we were shopping it came down to a choice between the MB and the BMW. I actually thought the MB made more sense  ('12 vs '11 ,local dealer,better AT,a bit roomier) but as I said above in the end it was about buying the car she liked more.