Topic: Need a New Family Hauler

[2latecrew]

Well, I called the indie Saab mechanic in Ottawa and he strongly advised not to buy it.  This coming from a guy who would make money off of the car says a lot.

The biggest issue he said is parts availability.  With Saab going bankrupt he said parts are becoming incredibly difficult to find.  Either they're back ordered forever or they're impossible to get. 

Damn shame. I loved it.

Well I'd be asking if the guy works on other brands because if he's that honest he must be good

I dodged bullets twice on buying used Sabbs. My wife loves them but the last one we looked at several years ago had warranty replacement of the turbo and other parts and that scared the crud outta me (it had about 40 K on it) knowing that stuff like turbos was failing. My mechanic said the same thing stay away far away parts being hard to come by and expensive.

[ktm525]

I drove a V70 (standard trim) today...04 V70 auto with 98K for $12Gs.  In very good shape...adequate power but kinda boring to drive steering and transmission wise...and it's pretty soft.

I then drove an 08 Saab 93 TurboX MT with 62K for $23Gs.  Now THAT'S more like it...very nice suspension.  This one looked pretty abused though...and more than I'd want to spend on a car primarily for winter use.

Is it just me, or does this too sound expensive - 05 Outback 2.5 XT MT with 167kms for $11Gs.

http://ontario.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-cars-trucks-2005-Subaru-Outback-2-5-XT-Wagon-W0QQAdIdZ310711110

Any used Volvo V70 (including a R) is going to need a visit to IPD parts to make it more exciting:


http://www.ipdusa.com/products/4891/6k5036-anti-sway-bar-kit-s60-v70-s80-fwd-models

Stiffer/lower springs, Sway bars, Bilstein struts, and a strut bar will dial the Volvo out of that Volvo.

[TopGun]

Well, I called the indie Saab mechanic in Ottawa and he strongly advised not to buy it.  This coming from a guy who would make money off of the car says a lot.

The biggest issue he said is parts availability.  With Saab going bankrupt he said parts are becoming incredibly difficult to find.  Either they're back ordered forever or they're impossible to get. 

Damn shame. I loved it.

Well I just find that confusing.  Why?  Well, my flying instructor friend is restoring a 1940's Steerman, and he can still find parts.

I know they're in Toronto, but give these guys a ring and see what they say...they are Saab specialists.  http://www.beaconmotors.com/

[tortoise]

I'll give them a call.  However, if you google "Saab parts backorder" there's a lot of hits commenting on people waiting for parts.  It may have to do with suppliers not getting paid and thus not making the parts anymore.

[ktm525]

Someone is going to have to come up a chev small block conversion for Saabs...

[tortoise]

The wagon is also on the list.

I think I'd prefer the 6 hatch for the 2.3L and it's presumably lower fuel consumption.

I've found this '06 - http://autocatch.com/used-cars/2006~mazda~mazda6~704865.htm

Seems like a lot of money.

You have a 6 wagon, no?  How has it been from a reliability perspective?

[TopGun]

I'll give them a call.  However, if you google "Saab parts backorder" there's a lot of hits commenting on people waiting for parts.  It may have to do with suppliers not getting paid and thus not making the parts anymore.

I called on both Beacon Motors in Toronto and Aktive Motors in Oakville.  Both of them said parts supplies were plentiful.  If not from SAAB, then from the after-market.  And what an after-market - lots of mods available for these cars.

I drove both a 9-5 (yawn)...and a 2002 9-3 SE that I really liked!  I've seen enough out there that for what I'm looking to accomplish with the car (a high-end beater essentially), the depressed prices for what you get more than make up for the issues.  Then again...I run an RX-8, so I'm clearly messed up.   

[tortoise]

Yeah, if I was looking for a high end beater a Saab is a great option.  They really do drive nice.  But as a primary vehicle at a stage where we can't afford big financial hits it just makes no sense. 

Drove this 6 wagon last night - http://www.caronauto.ca/used/Mazda/2006-Mazda-Mazda6-25d3d0fc404638bf002d8a59e75742c5.htm#

A nice car for sure,  and totally loaded.  The sales guy came along for a ride and insisted on a short loop for the test drive so I didn't have as much seat time as I would have liked.  It handled very well with only a little less refinement than the Saab.  More than enough power but didn't have the turbo "wooosh" of the 2.0T.  The interior was much nicer and way better assembled.   The short test drive wasn't an issue because this car had some rust issues.  A bubble on the drivers window frame,  early signs in the wheel wells and the seams of 3 of the 4 doors (didn't look at the 4th) were showing early signs of rust.  To which the salesman replied -  "It is a used car...". 

Overall, wasn't terribly impressed with the dealership.  The car had to be boosted (I know, it happens) since the battery was dead, the test drive was short and we had to make a point to ensure my wife had the chance to drive.  And at the end of it all he must have mentioned 5 times the necessity of putting down a deposit.

Also crawled around a Fit.  I really like them but they will be a tad small with two car seats (one rear-facing) and all the stuff we cart around.

[TopGun]

Yeah, if I was looking for a high end beater a Saab is a great option.  They really do drive nice.  But as a primary vehicle at a stage where we can't afford big financial hits it just makes no sense. 
.....
The sales guy came along for a ride and insisted on a short loop for the test drive so I didn't have as much seat time as I would have liked.  It handled very well with only a little less refinement than the Saab.  More than enough power but didn't have the turbo "wooosh" of the 2.0T.  The interior was much nicer and way better assembled
.....
Also crawled around a Fit.  I really like them but they will be a tad small with two car seats (one rear-facing) and all the stuff we cart around.

Well, ya...it's a used car...you don't have to buy it either!

For sure...with a $4,000 you're going to be taking your chances.  That said, I've had enough experience with cars on the lower end to decide that I'd get a much better idea of the cars history if I bought private.

That's a nice car...yet...$12,000 isn't chump change...and it's already starting to rust.  I've threatened Rrocket that I need to go drive an Escape.  You can get a brand new one for ~ $24Gs...and that would set us up for a long time to come without any reliability issues of a used car.

[tortoise]

Agreed, 12k isn't chump change - not that I'd be paying that.  I've found an '07 with the same number of km's for 11.8 k at a local Mazda Dealership.  We'll see if it's a lease return and if they have maintenance records.   At 40,000 km I'm not THAT worried about maintenance records. At 80,000 km it would be nice to have.  Nice thing about the 6's is the timing chain. 

Escapes are ok - certainly good value for the money.  My parents have an '10 Escape XLT - Loaded w/o sunroof.  It's a decent car, but one that feels like it was designed a decade ago.  Overall refinement is ok,  cruises down the highway ok,  interior is pretty 'meh".   They've had to replace a stabilizer link fairly early and a speaker went out but those are pretty minor things covered under warranty.

Also found an '06 wagon with 68,000 for 9 km, with winters - private sale.  However it's in Chicoutimi which appears to be 8 hours from here.

[TopGun]

...
Also found an '06 wagon with 68,000 for 9 km, with winters - private sale.  However it's in Chicoutimi which appears to be 8 hours from here.

That sounds like a good deal.  Nothing with mileage that low 'round here with my quick search.

[tortoise]

http://saguenay.kijiji.ca/c-autos-et-vehicules-autos-et-camions-2006-Mazda-Mazda6-Familiale-W0QQAdIdZ315538954

[2JDM]

Is it accident free?

[tortoise]

Dunno.  Should I choose to pursue it I'd certainly ask / carproof / carfax(?).

[tortoise]

Drove another 6 wagon last night.  They are nice cars and pretty much what we're looking for.  If only we could find one that's rust free.  This one was from MTL (another off-lease auction I presume) an the front looked like it was sand-blasted.   There were some significant touch-ups to the hood as well.   And the rear hatch was rusting (the salesman offered to split the repair with me  ).  That said, you could have eaten off of the engine compartment - spotless.  The dealer will be putting new brakes on it, so that's a bonus.  It also needed new tires though the ones on it may pass inspection.

It was an '07 with 85,000 km and they were asking $11,800.  When discussing purchasing the vehicle the salesman was adamant that they would not go below asking price for this car.  I guess he feels it's rare enough that people will pony up.  We'll see.

While we were there we crawled through the new Mazda5.  My wife was quite smitten and I must say - it would make a lot of sense for us.  The sliding doors are much easier at getting the kids in and out. Going to drive one tonight or tomorrow.

[quadzilla]

While we were there we crawled through the new Mazda5.  My wife was quite smitten and I must say - it would make a lot of sense for us.  The sliding doors are much easier at getting the kids in and out. Going to drive one tonight or tomorrow.

When I had my Mz6 the dealer lent me a Mz5 for 3 hours as I had to go somewhere while my car was being serviced. I really think you should take it out for a spin as its quite nice. I was blown away with how large it felt when inside and driving it but when you get out it looks compact. Almost like a Leon's commercial. 

I drove the 4 speed version and thought it was fine but think the 5 would probably be better for more city driving.

My only beef was non fold flat floor.

[2latecrew]

Drove another 6 wagon last night.  They are nice cars and pretty much what we're looking for.  If only we could find one that's rust free.  This one was from MTL (another off-lease auction I presume) an the front looked like it was sand-blasted.   There were some significant touch-ups to the hood as well.   And the rear hatch was rusting (the salesman offered to split the repair with me  ).  That said, you could have eaten off of the engine compartment - spotless.  The dealer will be putting new brakes on it, so that's a bonus.  It also needed new tires though the ones on it may pass inspection.

It was an '07 with 85,000 km and they were asking $11,800.  When discussing purchasing the vehicle the salesman was adamant that they would not go below asking price for this car.  I guess he feels it's rare enough that people will pony up.  We'll see.

While we were there we crawled through the new Mazda5.  My wife was quite smitten and I must say - it would make a lot of sense for us.  The sliding doors are much easier at getting the kids in and out. Going to drive one tonight or tomorrow.

Lots of used Mazda 5s out there. I had one for a rental and thought it was pretty cool ...for a van. As an around town runner it was great. I wouldn't care for it as a loaded to the roof family hauler though. Engine is too small and spins too high for my taste. Definitely would want the stick to try to get ant performance out of it.

[tortoise]

Thanks for the reply Careener.  Unfortunately I'm really only interested in a 6 wagon with a manual.  They're out there, but there aren't many.

We test drove a 5 last weekend.  It was an 07 with 50,000 km (asking $11.5k).    It drove quite well.  Not a powerhouse by any means but it can get out of its own way.  The engine was very smooth which is a good thing since I think the gearing might be shorter than the P5.  I have no idea why Mazda does this.  That said, cruising at 120 km/hr on the highway you couldn't hear the engine at all nor feel any unwanted vibrations.    Road and wind noise were a little more pronounced than you'd like but nothing that would be a deal breaker.  Plus, this 5 had cheap winter tires on it so I'm curious to hear how one fairs with A/S tires.

Handling was above what I expected.  Nimble, maneuverable and well buttoned down.  The steering was lighter than the P5's but not by much.  It was accurate with good feel.

The interior is incredibly functional for a family with young kids.  Getting our son in was a piece of cake and being able to recline the seat to match the angle of his car seat was nice.   You can tell that it was built to a price, not surprising given that they're not expensive when new. 

There's a TON of them on the market and you can easily get into an '08 or '09  with ~40,000 km with my budget.

I'd like to get an '08 or newer since the refresh saw the addition of an inboard armrest on the passenger seat as well as a few other things (better gauge lighting and rear HVAC vents to name a few).

The wife loved it.  I'm still leaning towards a 6 wagon.  Going into this shopping process I had no intention of getting another Mazda.  Not because I don't like them but because I was interested in something different.  Given my criteria there's so few other cars to choose from.  There's Subarus and VWs but they're each 5 grand more expensive for a comparable vehicle.   And neither are as fun to drive as the Mazdas.
 

[TopGun]

There's a TON of them on the market and you can easily get into an '08 or '09  with ~40,000 km with my budget.
....

Good review.  395 Mazda 5s in Ontario...81 with an MT...more than I thought!

I hear ya though....I don't really want another Mazda either...just for a change.

[tortoise]

D)  Are reasonably reliable.