Topic: Need a New Family Hauler

[Guy]

Just called, it is a manual but they told me it is now sold..

[tortoise]

That's too bad.

Thanks for the kind offer too see it and for making the phone call.  It's truly appreciated.

[Triple Bob]

What about an '06 Saab 9-2X? Subaru internals, Saab styling.

[Guy]

That's too bad.

Thanks for the kind offer too see it and for making the phone call.  It's truly appreciated.

No problem, if you find another one in the Quebec City area, let me know!

[tortoise]

What about an '06 Saab 9-2X? Subaru internals, Saab styling.

Good call.  I'd forgot to look at those.

[simonsez]

What about an '06 Saab 9-2X? Subaru internals, Saab styling.

Good call.  I'd forgot to look at those.

The Saab probably will probably be not much bigger than your P5, I like the Mazda6 Hatch option with 4 cyl. Here's one on a lease take-over with relatively small payments for a short period and not a bad buyback,

It's loaded and the mileage is nice too.

http://www.leasebusters.com/en/details.asp?ID=100896

[Ex-airbalancer]

It an auto, but would be a nice drive
http://carsteadmotortrends.autotrader.ca/certified/Mercedes-Benz/2002-Mercedes-Benz-C-Class-7e0e08f340463845015afd619c585bdf.htm

[Guy]

A 9 year old Certified Pre-Owned? Not sure certified by who, but I doubt it is by MB.

[tortoise]

Maybe they're just certifying that it was in fact pre-owned.

[TopGun]

I drove a V70 (standard trim) today...04 V70 auto with 98K for $12Gs.  In very good shape...adequate power but kinda boring to drive steering and transmission wise...and it's pretty soft.

I then drove an 08 Saab 93 TurboX MT with 62K for $23Gs.  Now THAT'S more like it...very nice suspension.  This one looked pretty abused though...and more than I'd want to spend on a car primarily for winter use.

Is it just me, or does this too sound expensive - 05 Outback 2.5 XT MT with 167kms for $11Gs.

http://ontario.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-cars-trucks-2005-Subaru-Outback-2-5-XT-Wagon-W0QQAdIdZ310711110

[tortoise]

I've been thinking the V70s while smooth will be a little vanilla.

And yeah, those Subies have asking prices that are rather inflated.  That car is going  to be 7 years old.  At least that one is the XT.

http://ottawa.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-cars-trucks-2005-Subaru-Outback-2-5i-Wagon-W0QQAdIdZ313100201

I keep wondering if I could get that 9-3 for $12k if I'd care as much about reliability.  They did a redesign for 2007 that fixed a lot of the common problems in the 03-06 models (like the stereo that used fiber optics).

[TopGun]

....
I keep wondering if I could get that 9-3 for $12k if I'd care as much about reliability.  They did a redesign for 2007 that fixed a lot of the common problems in the 03-06 models (like the stereo that used fiber optics).

Well that's the thing the Artics don't seem to get - a car that has a crappy reliability record (real or perceived) depreciates like CRAZY...which is a GOOD thing if you're buying used.  If the price is low enough, then you've got lots in reserve for those kinds of things to happen.  By the same reasoning, a used BMW makes no sense as the price is high AND the reliability record seems bad.

I test drove an 07 Element ~ 80km on the clock for $17,000.  Drove like toast dipped in milk.  I'm now considering trucks...heck, if these cars all suck in the fun-to-drive department, then I'll take the utility.

[Weels]

....
I keep wondering if I could get that 9-3 for $12k if I'd care as much about reliability.  They did a redesign for 2007 that fixed a lot of the common problems in the 03-06 models (like the stereo that used fiber optics).

Well that's the thing the Artics don't seem to get - a car that has a crappy reliability record (real or perceived) depreciates like CRAZY...which is a GOOD thing if you're buying used.  If the price is low enough, then you've got lots in reserve for those kinds of things to happen.  By the same reasoning, a used BMW makes no sense as the price is high AND the reliability record seems bad.

I test drove an 07 Element ~ 80km on the clock for $17,000.  Drove like toast dipped in milk.  I'm now considering trucks...heck, if these cars all suck in the fun-to-drive department, then I'll take the utility.

Why not look at a Ranger then?   Local dealer has a bunch on the lot, brand new '11 with 4.0L & 5 spd man for $14,900.... and now that the Ranger has been killed, can likely get that down even more... at that price, i'm tempted to put one in my driveway

[Ex-airbalancer]

....
I keep wondering if I could get that 9-3 for $12k if I'd care as much about reliability.  They did a redesign for 2007 that fixed a lot of the common problems in the 03-06 models (like the stereo that used fiber optics).

Well that's the thing the Artics don't seem to get - a car that has a crappy reliability record (real or perceived) depreciates like CRAZY...which is a GOOD thing if you're buying used.  If the price is low enough, then you've got lots in reserve for those kinds of things to happen.  By the same reasoning, a used BMW makes no sense as the price is high AND the reliability record seems bad.

I test drove an 07 Element ~ 80km on the clock for $17,000.  Drove like toast dipped in milk.  I'm now considering trucks...heck, if these cars all suck in the fun-to-drive department, then I'll take the utility.

Why not look at a Ranger then?   Local dealer has a bunch on the lot, brand new '11 with 4.0L & 5 spd man for $14,900.... and now that the Ranger has been killed, can likely get that down even more... at that price, i'm tempted to put one in my driveway

Drive a Ranger then drive a even a base F-150  and it would be no contest even at the extra cost the F-150 is much better

[tortoise]

I test drove an 07 Element ~ 80km on the clock for $17,000.  Drove like toast dipped in milk. 

Used Element prices are stupid.   Too bad about the drive,  I had always assumed they were fun to drive.  From what I've read the SC has a sportier suspension - you could try one of those.  But then we're back to the high used prices.

[tortoise]

I like the Mazda6 Hatch option with 4 cyl.

This idea is really growing on me.   I saw one locally on a used car lot - a less shady one at that.  '07, 84000 km.  No idea on price yet.

[mmorriso]

my p5 will be replaced at some point as well.  a mazda6 hatch won't give you much more room and with an i4 will seem just as underpowered as your p5 does.  not to mention the huge turning radius of the 6.  at least a TSX would have ESC as standard equipment.  if you go with a sedan you could consider an 08+ accord or 07+ camry SE.  a 2010 Mazda3 Sport with the sunrood package would include ESC and be more fuel efficient and fun to drive than the 6, accord or camry.  i'm hoping to get a few more years out of my p5 then picking up a newer focus, impreza or mazda3 although it would be a commuter/dd...my "family hauler" is a sienna.

happy shopping!

[tortoise]

I saw a 6 hatch at the grocery store with the seats down so naturally I peaked inside.  There is significantly more room than the P5 and the P5 has more room (passenger and cargo) than the Mazda 3.

The P5 will soldier on until it dies as which point I hope to replace it with a Focus, WRX, Mini, etc.  A fun city car.

[tortoise]

I took the Saab for a test drive.  I've been reading up on them and in 2007 they received a significant revamp, fixing a lot of the issues that plagued the earlier cars of that generation.

The dealership was friendly and told me to drive it for a while.  This was after we fiddled putting in the car seat for a good 15 minutes.  Normally it's pretty easy but with the Saab the anchors are buried deep in the seats.  I'm sure I'd get used to it.  The dealer also mentioned they have no problem with me taking it to a shop, I didn't even have to ask.

I took it on a mix of highway and city roads.  Cruising on the highway at 120 in 6th gear the 2.0T was spinning around 2500 rpm.   Even still it had enough torque to accelerate without a gear change.  I loved the engine,  smooth, powerful and quiet.  I do think ~200 hp from a 2L turbo is the sweet spot in the power/economy trade off.

The suspension is very well buttoned down,  similar to the last gen. Passat but with stiffer damping.   Road and wind noise were subdued and the drive line was very smooth.

The steering was nicely weighted at speed and gave good feedback about what the tires were doing.

The clutch was a little wonky, needing a bit of travel then biting abruptly.  It took me a little while to get used to it but it was no problem.

The interior is functional enough but doesn't exude quality like a BMW or an Audi.  I'd say it's a step below the first Infiniti G-Series.  There was the odd rattle on rough terrain which makes me wonder about how it would be in the winter.

They're asking $14,500 and I'm not sure what I'd want to pay for it.   I'm going to call the local Indie Saab mechanic tomorrow to get a feel for what he thinks of these things. 

If I could get it for less than 12k I might just bite.

Hopefully I'll be able to get out and drive a 6 hatch.  I've found an 07 with 80,000 km, asking 12,900.  It looks to be in great shape.  I ran my hands inside the wheel wells and they came out covered in back oil... Would that be an indication of rust proofing?

I'm curious to see how the 6 stacks up from a driving perspective.

[tortoise]

Well, I called the indie Saab mechanic in Ottawa and he strongly advised not to buy it.  This coming from a guy who would make money off of the car says a lot.

The biggest issue he said is parts availability.  With Saab going bankrupt he said parts are becoming incredibly difficult to find.  Either they're back ordered forever or they're impossible to get. 

Damn shame. I loved it.