Topic: Feature: Mazda's Skyactiv technology - Part two

[Autos_Editor]

Mazda plans significant advances in fuel economy and performance simply by improving existing vehicle technologies, says Greg Wilson.

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[JohnnyMac]

I would love to see a Mazda 3 with 300+ ft/pds of torque.  I really think that Mazda is preparing itself for a great lineup in the next couple of years.  Currently I'm not overly excited about any of their vehicles and I can't say I would pick one of them over other manufacturers.  That being said if they get a diesel in their Mazda 3 with something similar in performance to the TDI then I'll definitely consider it.  I love that they are making all these components lighter, stronger, and more efficient.  This will make a big difference in both driving dynamics and fuel economy. 

[Factger]

It  is nice to see mazda trying to improve on their 6 speed manual transmission instead of just trying to phase them out like other car companies.

After having a mazda I would like to see the following comment made from Tomita. 

A typical unit body will be eight per cent lighter, in part due to the increased use of high tensile, Corrosion Resistive steel.

[redman]

How is the continuous use of a hydraulic steering system an advancement regardless how it's marketed. All hydraulic systems require oil, have parasitic losses and seals that eventually leak. Others namely Toyota have and are switching to electrical steering systems which use excess electrical power generated by the engine. As far as safety it should be noted that airplanes have switched to similar electrical systems for wheel steering on tarmac.
Mazda seems to take two steps forward but one step back in some of there approaches to "savings"

Rob

[dirtyjeffer]

as i have pointed out before, this is part of how you engineer improvements:

"A typical unit body will be eight per cent lighter, in part due to the increased use of high tensile steel. And being lighter, the new body will help improve fuel economy."

Mazda will be joining Hyundai and now Honda as well in terms of increasing the amount high strength steel to improve structural rigidity while reducing weight...maybe next years Chevy Cruze ECO will do the same, instead of the cheap way out, which was to use thinner sheet metal and thinner weld seems.

perhaps if CatsEye68 didn't get himself banned, he could read yet more examples of companies today investing in improving their cars the proper way.

[D70]

The Mazda2 with skyactiv technology offers outstanding performance, any idea when it will be avaible in Canada?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/d70w7/6081557308/

[ajay]

Mazda 2 was supposed to be here 2012 .
Even though the 6 platform is flexible enough, the next Mazda 2 won’t use it on cost grounds. Mazda is currently talking to other manufacturers about the possibility of co-developing a supermini platform to help keep costs down.
The Mazda 2 uses a new 1.3 di motor in Japan ( Japan only ).
I've read a 2 liter or diesil could go into the next mazda 2 . Time will tell .
Regardless of what engine goes in it, it will be a nimble car that's really fun to drive .

[ajay]

mazda reveals upmarket plans
http://www.whatcar.com/car-news/mazda-reveals-upmarket-ambitions/258845

[Sir Osis of Liver]

as i have pointed out before, this is part of how you engineer improvements:

"A typical unit body will be eight per cent lighter, in part due to the increased use of high tensile steel. And being lighter, the new body will help improve fuel economy."

Mazda will be joining Hyundai and now Honda as well in terms of increasing the amount high strength steel to improve structural rigidity while reducing weight...maybe next years Chevy Cruze ECO will do the same, instead of the cheap way out, which was to use thinner sheet metal and thinner weld seems.

perhaps if CatsEye68 didn't get himself banned, he could read yet more examples of companies today investing in improving their cars the proper way.

 
- Cars in North America were using 3% medium and high strength steels in the 1970s. They are currently using 11%. What percentage is the Elantra using? Or are you simply parroting Hyundai marketing pap.

- Hyundai has a lot more room to move and still maintain profitability per unit simply because of the exchange rate. Japan used the same technique of offering high content (features and engineering) at low prices to establish themselves in NA.

- Without knowing the differences in rigidity, we have no idea if the Elantra is as strong as the Cruze in resisting harmonics or torsional forces.

- We should also compare other externalities such as the different amounts of sound insulation used between the vehicles.

- Crapping on a person, even an unpleasant one, who can't fight back is nothing more than an unnecessary cheap shot.

[dirtyjeffer]

 
- Cars in North America were using 3% medium and high strength steels in the 1970s. They are currently using 11%. What percentage is the Elantra using? Or are you simply parroting Hyundai marketing pap.

i can't say for what was done in the 70's, but that matters little...today's modern cars are not using 11%, they are using over 50%...it is a significant improvement, not a slight change.

- Hyundai has a lot more room to move and still maintain profitability per unit simply because of the exchange rate. Japan used the same technique of offering high content (features and engineering) at low prices to establish themselves in NA.

no, Hyundai has simplified their line-up (no options on their cars, they are purchased as is in terms of trim), their plants are not held hostage by unions, their products are priced properly and the incentives are reasonable (unlike Ford/GM/Chrysler who seem to be having "employee pricing" every other month), their products are gaining recognition for significantly improved quality and value, which is in turn helping them sell well...and yes, there is always room for improvement, which is exactly what they have done year after year.

- Crapping on a person, even an unpleasant one, who can't fight back is nothing more than an unnecessary cheap shot.

don't worry, i'm sure you'll defend his honor.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

 
- Cars in North America were using 3% medium and high strength steels in the 1970s. They are currently using 11%. What percentage is the Elantra using? Or are you simply parroting Hyundai marketing pap.

i can't say for what was done in the 70's, but that matters little...today's modern cars are not using 11%, they are using over 50%...it is a significant improvement, not a slight change.

- Hyundai has a lot more room to move and still maintain profitability per unit simply because of the exchange rate. Japan used the same technique of offering high content (features and engineering) at low prices to establish themselves in NA.

no, Hyundai has simplified their line-up (no options on their cars, they are purchased as is in terms of trim), their plants are not held hostage by unions, their products are priced properly and the incentives are reasonable (unlike Ford/GM/Chrysler who seem to be having "employee pricing" every other month), their products are gaining recognition for significantly improved quality and value, which is in turn helping them sell well...and yes, there is always room for improvement, which is exactly what they have done year after year.

- Crapping on a person, even an unpleasant one, who can't fight back is nothing more than an unnecessary cheap shot.

don't worry, i'm sure you'll defend his honor.

Numbers per 2007 industry average.

MILD STEEL   43.10%
HIGH & MED STRENGTH STEEL   11.90%
PLASTIC   8.40%
ALUMINUM   8.10%
IRON   7.00%
OTHER MATERIALS   5.70%
OTHER METALS   3.90%
OTHER STEEL   1.90%

Source: Ducker Worldwide

And you are still completely in denial over how Hyundai can offer more than the competition at a low price.

I refuse to turn a Mazda thread into yet another Hyundai thread.

[dirtyjeffer]

Numbers per 2007 industry average.

MILD STEEL   43.10%
HIGH & MED STRENGTH STEEL   11.90%
PLASTIC   8.40%
ALUMINUM   8.10%
IRON   7.00%
OTHER MATERIALS   5.70%
OTHER METALS   3.90%
OTHER STEEL   1.90%

Source: Ducker Worldwide

i will actually provide links, which are more recent, proving what i have been saying.

http://www.designnews.com/document.asp?doc_id=218549
http://www.worldsteel.org/?action=storypages&id=280
http://www.arcelormittal.com/gent/prg/selfware.pl?id_sitemap=114&language=EN
http://media.ford.com/images/10031/Boron.pdf
http://www.worldautosteel.org/WhySteel/Mass-Reduction/ProgressInWeightLoss.aspx

here, the Chevy Volt actually uses over 70%...a far cry from your claims of 11-12%, and which is why they COULD have done something similar to the Cruze ECO instead of what they did do, which they should be ashamed of:

http://www.steel.org/en/sitecore/content/Global/Document%20Types/News/2010/Auto%20-%20Awards%20-%20Advanced%20and%20Ultra%20High-Strength%20Steels%20Featured%20in%20Motor%20Trends%20Car%20of%20the%20Year.aspx

And you are still completely in denial over how Hyundai can offer more than the competition at a low price.

i am not sure what you mean here...i assume you dispute my comments in my previous point...you are free to disagree with them, but that doesn't make them wrong...even if i give you your "exchange rate" excuse, that is but one small aspect...as well, considering Hyundai owns plants in the US, and makes a large percentage of the vehicles that are sold here, the exchange rate would have very little impact on things (which is partly why auto companies build their cars here, to get relief from tariffs and to help keep costs consistent and be less affected by currency fluctuations, which can also be mitigated through contract purchasing, which of course you must already know about).

I refuse to turn a Mazda thread into yet another Hyundai thread.

you aren't doing a very good job then.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

You fail at reading comprehension. One of your own links referred to a later Ducker report.

consequently we’ve seen a great deal of growth in the Advanced High-Strength Steel market. A Ducker study conducted in North America reflects this increase in AHSS usage.  As you can see here, the study data shows the dramatic upward trend for Advanced High-Strength Steel content in vehicles and what is anticipated out to the year 2020.



See the number for 2009? 150lbs. Fleet average weight of a passenger vehicle in 2009? Just over 4000lbs. That's 3.75% of AHSS the remainder of the 11% is medium strength steel.

This statement:

Today, AHSS is not only reaching upwards of 40% usage in vehicles on the road today, automakers are now featuring its use in their marketing messages. means that 40% of vehicles on the road use some AHSS not that they are made of 40% AHSS

This statement about the Volt:

With over 70 percent of its total structure made from high-strength steels, including advanced and ultra high-strength steels, the Volt’s steel design provides occupants with added protection.  In addition, the Volt features a pressurized steel fuel tank.

means that 70% of structural elements are AHSS, not 70% of all the steel used in the car. It makes no sense at all to use AHSS as body cladding.

[dirtyjeffer]

You fail at reading comprehension. One of your own links referred to a later Ducker report.

consequently we’ve seen a great deal of growth in the Advanced High-Strength Steel market. A Ducker study conducted in North America reflects this increase in AHSS usage.  As you can see here, the study data shows the dramatic upward trend for Advanced High-Strength Steel content in vehicles and what is anticipated out to the year 2020.



See the number for 2009? 150lbs. Fleet average weight of a passenger vehicle in 2009? Just over 4000lbs. That's 3.75% of AHSS the remainder of the 11% is medium strength steel.

it's funny you mock me about reading comprehension, then post that...you don't talk about the entire weight of a vehicle (in your example, 4000 pounds)...the car seats, engine, transmission, etc have no effect as the HSS are not used there...the newer steels are used in structural components and are now used in things like suspension/steering components too...i never said 50% of the weight of the car was HSS, although you just insinuated i did...my comment regarding the percentages was to show where it has displaced standard steel in the vehicles, which has helped reduce the weight (or keep it off) as it is increasing in its use substantially in the last few years (and will continue going forward)...in many cars today, it means keeping off 150-200 pounds, and in some case, could be upwards of 400 pounds...in the coming years, you may very well see it used on body panels as well (or perhaps some other lightweight composite) to help keep weight down as emissions regulations and fuel economy requirements get more strict.

either way, i'm not really sure why you are arguing about this...you have taken a harmless kudos post from me (to Mazda, Hyundai and Honda) and want to pick it apart...debate with me all you like, but don't cry about the thread being dragged off topic, when you are the one doing it.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

- Cars in North America were using 3% medium and high strength steels in the 1970s. They are currently using 11%. What percentage is the Elantra using? Or are you simply parroting Hyundai marketing pap.

i can't say for what was done in the 70's, but that matters little...today's modern cars are not using 11%, they are using over 50%...it is a significant improvement, not a slight change.

You don't remember this? I said that high strength and medium strength steel made up 11% of current cars. You're the guy claiming it was over 50%.

Of the steel only, high and medium strength steel accounts for just over 20%. somewhere around 8% for AHSS alone.

[dirtyjeffer]

i have already shown you what i meant when i said the "50%" figure, and backed it up with numerous links...i never said it was 50% of the entire car's construction, you implied that.

[Seafoam]

as i have pointed out before, this is part of how you engineer improvements:

"A typical unit body will be eight per cent lighter, in part due to the increased use of high tensile steel. And being lighter, the new body will help improve fuel economy."

Mazda will be joining Hyundai and now Honda as well in terms of increasing the amount high strength steel to improve structural rigidity while reducing weight...maybe next years Chevy Cruze ECO will do the same, instead of the cheap way out, which was to use thinner sheet metal and thinner weld seems.

perhaps if CatsEye68 didn't get himself banned, he could read yet more examples of companies today investing in improving their cars the proper way.

He was banned. Wow. In which thread?. I wondered why it was so quiet here.

[dirtyjeffer]

He was banned. Wow. In which thread?. I wondered why it was so quiet here.

i am assuming he was banned as we haven't seen him in a while.