Author Topic: Kia to take on the Camaro/Mustang/Challenger  (Read 11457 times)

Offline Erik

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Re: Kia to take on the Camaro/Mustang/Challenger
« Reply #60 on: July 09, 2011, 09:07:47 pm »
Wow.   That's a solid niche.   I never see the camaro in dt toronto.  Lots of mustangs and the odd challenger though.    Personally I don't quite get the appeal of these cars.   It's not so much the big engine format, it's just that they all appear to be so unnecessarily big. It's like they are not even trying to show any physical restraint.  The challenger in particular is massive.   The a5 is 6-9 inches shorter in Length and at least a couple inches lower and they still somehow wedged a v8 under it's hood.   Why would Kia want to emulate the pony car?

I think Kia is only trying to make a "halo" car, however by all accounts, before they do, they need to hire away a suspension engineer from BMW or wherever. Visual design won't be enough.

I'm getting off topic but in response to the comment about dimensions, here's a comparison. The answer I think is simple, Audi is a more comprehensive overall design making the most of space, whereas the others don't bother minimizing overhang or eliminate under the hood extra access space for example. By the way, you mean the S5 which is the same body as the A5. The A5 only has a 4 cyl. 2.0T this year, and last year had a 3.2 V6 as the biggest engine.

                            Audi S5 V8          Challenger V8           Mustang V8         Camaro V8

Wheel Base             108.3"                 116.0"                      107.1"                112.3"

Overall Length         182.1"                 197.7" <eek!>           188.2"                190.4"

Weight                    3,858 lbs.           4,170 lbs. (OMG!)       3,605 lbs.          3,860 lbs.

I should add that I find the Challenger the best looking, and it has a great sound too. But with those numbers, its a No from me, and thank you very much for coming.  :rofl2:


 

 

As always, there are trade offs. Both GM and Chrysler only had a full size sedan to build their cars off of. So, it is no big surprise that they are bigger and heavier than the others. All of them will be bigger, cause they have very torquey, big V8's. And unless you put a bunch of money into expensive components, pieces strong enough to handle more than 400 lb/ft of torque will be heavy. While the Camaro is just a pretty silly design, the Challenger does give you a real back seat and a huge trunk.

Lets not forget that a loaded S5 is pushing $75K, while the Challenger just squeezes over $50K. And the Mustangs and Camaros (GT500's and ZL1's) can get up there, they are also WAY faster and much more powerful. And still are a lot less money than the S5.

I can't imagine too many people cross shopping a Challenger SRT8 392 with an Audi S5. Could happen I guess, but the $20K price difference will keep most away.

Not really fair comparisons, cause they are vastly different cars, designed to appeal to different drivers and offering a different type of performance.
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Offline tpl

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Re: Kia to take on the Camaro/Mustang/Challenger
« Reply #61 on: July 09, 2011, 10:14:20 pm »
 I'd rather spend the $20K and have a small diamond rather than a big Cubic Zirconia.

As it happens I saw  someone on Friday eve whom I had not seen for years. He was in Ont for a few days and rented a car.   He was offered the choice between a Fiat 500 and a Challenger.   He took the Challenger and said he was quite disappointed.  Huge and gutless he said. He drives a Golf  at home in Victoria BC.

I saw the Challenger and indeed it is a humungous car by modern standards.
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Offline Erik

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Re: Kia to take on the Camaro/Mustang/Challenger
« Reply #62 on: July 09, 2011, 10:24:53 pm »
I'd rather spend the $20K and have a small diamond rather than a big Cubic Zirconia.

As it happens I saw  someone on Friday eve whom I had not seen for years. He was in Ont for a few days and rented a car.   He was offered the choice between a Fiat 500 and a Challenger.   He took the Challenger and said he was quite disappointed.  Huge and gutless he said. He drives a Golf  at home in Victoria BC.

I saw the Challenger and indeed it is a humungous car by modern standards.

He undoubtedly got a based model with a V6. Was it even a new one with the Pentastar? VERY different beast if you drive a SRT8 with the 6 speed. Incredibly fun car.

Offline Erik

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Re: Kia to take on the Camaro/Mustang/Challenger
« Reply #63 on: July 10, 2011, 09:27:22 pm »
erik.   i don't think anyone is saying that the s5 is going to be cross shopped with any pony car.  the s5 is clearly aimed at a different crowd.  the comparison is only a physical one.   it's unfortunate the challenger couldn't have been designed physically shorter and lower.  it is the best looking chrysler by a mile.  

Lower would have been nice. But it is only about 6 inches longer than the original, chrome bumpered, 1970 version, and about 350 lbs heavier. This for a vastly safer, stronger car, with better acceleration than even the strongest 426 Hemi. The Challenger was never a small car.

By comparison, take a look at a current Golf vs the original, or a 3 series BMW to one from the 70's or 80's. I saw a new 335i parked beside a mid 80's 325i, and the older car looked tiny by comparison. The current 3 series must be as big and heavy as a 5 series of that era.

Anyhow, I still think the Challenger is a damn fine looking car. Especially in my fav colour, B5 Blue:


Offline Seafoam

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Re: Kia to take on the Camaro/Mustang/Challenger
« Reply #64 on: July 11, 2011, 07:21:30 pm »
 Yes that can  be said about all new cars . As they are renewed they gain more weight. Look how the accord has grown for example.It seems like it is proportional to how much weight us North Americans are gaining. I hope not. ;D
 That being said if the challenger was 3/4 of what it is it would be perfect.
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Offline mmret

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Re: Kia to take on the Camaro/Mustang/Challenger
« Reply #65 on: July 11, 2011, 08:05:51 pm »
Once again, the Korean manufacturers demonstrate how they are very capable mimics. Looks like an Audi to me as well. I think the ponycars are safe.

Insert foot into mouth....

You mean like the extremely original designs the domestic pony cars have...all copied from 1960s cars?? 

Yep...that shows a real keen sense of design creativity and a distinct lack of mimicking, huh?...

Reposting, because my response to my good friend rrocket seems to have mysteriously disappeared.... hmmmm.

As I was saying, you can't mimic YOURSELF.


Quote
FWIW the Chief of Design for Kia is Peter Schreyer...the guy who penned the Audi TT.  He worked for Audi from 1980-2006. Like musicians and artists, many designers have a "style" or design philosophy they often follow...


Well, I guess if you change employers, you CAN mimic yourself.

The mind boggles.

As for the car, a very cool look. Hopefully the production version will not fall flat somehow as always seems to happen a bit to cool looking concept drawings etc. I'm afraid they might screw it up for production in the following ways:

1. ride height too high
2. wheels too small
3. they end up reducing the rear haunch / fender flare bit.

I pray this will not come to pass.


New gen Kia designs look much better than Hyundai ones IMO, both inside and out.
You can't just have your characters announce how they feel.
That makes me feel angry!

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Offline mmret

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Re: Kia to take on the Camaro/Mustang/Challenger
« Reply #66 on: July 12, 2011, 07:17:21 am »
Normally that would be a reasonably clever dig at a pair of automakers. I myself have surely been guilty of this many times. But you my friend have taken things a bit too far with your biases. :)

Offline dougjp

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Re: Kia to take on the Camaro/Mustang/Challenger
« Reply #67 on: July 12, 2011, 07:26:15 am »
New gen Kia designs look much better than Hyundai ones IMO, both inside and out.

Well, you are far more likely to injure yourself as a passerby on a sharp tortured sheet metal crease line on the Hyundai than you are on the Kia. OTOH, the hard black plastic on a Kia interior can cause other injuries. :o

Ironically, the only time I've seen that happen in real life (as opposed to the virtual world anti-promo mode you are entrenched into) was when my wife reached into the glove box of a rental (NORTH AMERICAN MADE) Dodge Caliber, and the sharp unfinished plastic sliced a cut in the top of her hand. True story. Not made up on the spur of the moment. But thanks for reminding me of our anger at Chrysler anyway.

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Re: Kia to take on the Camaro/Mustang/Challenger
« Reply #68 on: July 12, 2011, 08:34:05 am »
New gen Kia designs look much better than Hyundai ones IMO, both inside and out.

Well, you are far more likely to injure yourself as a passerby on a sharp tortured sheet metal crease line on the Hyundai than you are on the Kia. OTOH, the hard black plastic on a Kia interior can cause other injuries. :o

Ironically, the only time I've seen that happen in real life (as opposed to the virtual world anti-promo mode you are entrenched into) was when my wife reached into the glove box of a rental (NORTH AMERICAN MADE) Dodge Caliber, and the sharp unfinished plastic sliced a cut in the top of her hand. True story. Not made up on the spur of the moment. But thanks for reminding me of our anger at Chrysler anyway.

Amazing that some can accuse posters of being all sorts of bad things without consequence, but make a joking comment about black plastic in a Kia and it gets deleted. Thank you for preserving the heinous comment in your quote so the world can see the nature of the crime.



Offline TopGun

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Re: Kia to take on the Camaro/Mustang/Challenger
« Reply #69 on: July 12, 2011, 10:23:19 am »
Kia will be able to take advantage of the fact that the Camaro/Mustang/Challenger are, perhaps rightfully so for profitability reasons, dedicated to their heritage.  

Schreyer has done a great job with Kia, and I expect his design to be stronger than the artist rendering posted.

Offline mmret

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Re: Kia to take on the Camaro/Mustang/Challenger
« Reply #70 on: July 12, 2011, 08:27:19 pm »
Great now my post makes no sense :P

Offline Erik

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Re: Kia to take on the Camaro/Mustang/Challenger
« Reply #71 on: July 12, 2011, 10:49:31 pm »
Great now my post makes no sense :P

Don't worry. We're used to it by now. :)

Offline Mike

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Re: Kia to take on the Camaro/Mustang/Challenger
« Reply #72 on: August 18, 2011, 09:12:31 am »
FROM AUTOBLOG

Quote
Kia has its bags packed for Germany, because the automaker is reportedly planning to unveil a new concept car at the 2011 Frankfurt Motor Show. According to Ward's Auto, Kia officials aren't calling it a coupe, but state the car will have "coupe-like" styling. Does that mean the Korean automaker is taking aim at the Mercedes-Benz CLS-Class and Audi A7? Judging by the styling direction of its latest vehicles – the Optima, namely – we wouldn't be surprised.

Mum's the word on this Kia concept, but the report suggests that it will have rear-wheel-drive architecture and slot in size between the Hyundai Genesis and Equus. Our best guess? This is further confirmation that the Kia K9 is getting ready to meet the world. The V8-powered, Peter Schreyer-designed four-door is expected to take the auto show stage in Germany, and we'll be there to bring you live photos if and when it does.

Besides word of a new model, Kia also has updates in store for its engines and transmissions. The 2.0-liter direct-injection four-cylinder unit making its way into the 2012 Soul is already being reworked. Engineers are squeezing more power while improving fuel efficiency thanks to a continuously variable valve timing system.  :o Additionally, while automotive kissing cousin Hyundai is set to launch the Veloster with a six-speed dual-clutch transmission, Kia insiders say more gears are already on the immediate horizon. A seven-speed DCT isn't far behind the six, with launch estimates pegged at two years time.

So wait, am I reading this right? More then 276HP in a Kia Soul?

Offline Sir Osis of Liver

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Re: Kia to take on the Camaro/Mustang/Challenger
« Reply #73 on: August 18, 2011, 03:24:28 pm »
FROM AUTOBLOG

Quote
Kia has its bags packed for Germany, because the automaker is reportedly planning to unveil a new concept car at the 2011 Frankfurt Motor Show. According to Ward's Auto, Kia officials aren't calling it a coupe, but state the car will have "coupe-like" styling. Does that mean the Korean automaker is taking aim at the Mercedes-Benz CLS-Class and Audi A7? Judging by the styling direction of its latest vehicles – the Optima, namely – we wouldn't be surprised.

Mum's the word on this Kia concept, but the report suggests that it will have rear-wheel-drive architecture and slot in size between the Hyundai Genesis and Equus. Our best guess? This is further confirmation that the Kia K9 is getting ready to meet the world. The V8-powered, Peter Schreyer-designed four-door is expected to take the auto show stage in Germany, and we'll be there to bring you live photos if and when it does.

Besides word of a new model, Kia also has updates in store for its engines and transmissions. The 2.0-liter direct-injection four-cylinder unit making its way into the 2012 Soul is already being reworked. Engineers are squeezing more power while improving fuel efficiency thanks to a continuously variable valve timing system.  :o Additionally, while automotive kissing cousin Hyundai is set to launch the Veloster with a six-speed dual-clutch transmission, Kia insiders say more gears are already on the immediate horizon. A seven-speed DCT isn't far behind the six, with launch estimates pegged at two years time.

So wait, am I reading this right? More then 276HP in a Kia Soul?

I think they are referring to a normally aspirated engine.
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Offline Mike

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Re: Kia to take on the Camaro/Mustang/Challenger
« Reply #74 on: August 18, 2011, 03:33:24 pm »
FROM AUTOBLOG

Quote
Kia has its bags packed for Germany, because the automaker is reportedly planning to unveil a new concept car at the 2011 Frankfurt Motor Show. According to Ward's Auto, Kia officials aren't calling it a coupe, but state the car will have "coupe-like" styling. Does that mean the Korean automaker is taking aim at the Mercedes-Benz CLS-Class and Audi A7? Judging by the styling direction of its latest vehicles – the Optima, namely – we wouldn't be surprised.

Mum's the word on this Kia concept, but the report suggests that it will have rear-wheel-drive architecture and slot in size between the Hyundai Genesis and Equus. Our best guess? This is further confirmation that the Kia K9 is getting ready to meet the world. The V8-powered, Peter Schreyer-designed four-door is expected to take the auto show stage in Germany, and we'll be there to bring you live photos if and when it does.

Besides word of a new model, Kia also has updates in store for its engines and transmissions. The 2.0-liter direct-injection four-cylinder unit making its way into the 2012 Soul is already being reworked. Engineers are squeezing more power while improving fuel efficiency thanks to a continuously variable valve timing system.  :o Additionally, while automotive kissing cousin Hyundai is set to launch the Veloster with a six-speed dual-clutch transmission, Kia insiders say more gears are already on the immediate horizon. A seven-speed DCT isn't far behind the six, with launch estimates pegged at two years time.

So wait, am I reading this right? More then 276HP in a Kia Soul?

I think they are referring to a normally aspirated engine.

oh yeah  :-[

Offline conwelpic

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Offline conwelpic

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Re: Kia to take on the Camaro/Mustang/Challenger
« Reply #76 on: September 09, 2011, 11:12:26 am »

Offline TopGun

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Re: Kia to take on the Camaro/Mustang/Challenger
« Reply #77 on: September 09, 2011, 12:00:36 pm »
I'm surprised at this.  Everyone has a styling opinion...for me, this is a styling step backwards towards the derivative....it's just a rip-off of the Aston77 front end.  I've liked the previous batch of Kias.

And while just a concept, the detailing looks tacked on...especially on the bottom sides.

Offline dougjp

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Re: Kia to take on the Camaro/Mustang/Challenger
« Reply #78 on: September 09, 2011, 12:42:04 pm »

Offline Jaeger

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Re: Kia to take on the Camaro/Mustang/Challenger
« Reply #79 on: September 09, 2011, 01:33:30 pm »
Euuuuuwww, yuk. I liked this front end so much better;

http://thekoreancarblog.com/2011/07/kia-unveil-v8powered-rearwheel-drive-coupe-frankfurt-motor-show/

Me too.  Oh well, it's a step or three from supposed concept to actual concept to actual production -so there's hope.

Jaeger
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