Topic: Kia to take on the Camaro/Mustang/Challenger

[CatsEye68]

I think it might from a performance perspective, but I just can't see potential Mustang or Camaro buyers considering a Kia.  Heck, I can't even see Mustang and Camaro buyers cross shopping the two.  I could be entirely wrong, but that's my thoughts on it.  

Uhhhh... isn't that pretty much exactly what I said, that started all this?

[Erik]

Sure some people only want the big torque experience of a Challenger or a Camaro. But I am sure a lot of people cross shopped with the Genesis. Have to be a moron not to.

Don't be such a Hyundai hater!

Yes, I think some cars compare closely to others and will be crossed shopped.  Heck, some sedans even compare favorably to coupes.  But that won't ever make a sedan a coupe.  Just like a Hyundai Genesis will never be thought of as a Pony Car...or pony car fighter.  I mean...no one who buys a Genesis will say "I just bought a pony car!!"   

And some might disagree...but I don't think the Charger is a pony car.....

So the Kia is not a actually take on the Mustang and the Camaro then?

If it has a competitive V8 and a chassis done right?  Maybe.  But I'll believe it when I see it....it's all vaporware at this point.  But even then....will anything but a domestic EVER be considered a "pony car"??

Nothing other than a car produced by the big three will ever truly be a pony car. To a lot of people, that won't matter.  Bob looked at the mustang and Camaro before buying his Genesis. I am sure the definition of Pony Car had nothing to do with it.

[rrocket]

The Genesis coupe was supposed to slay the domestic ponycar dragon.

Without a V8?  That was never it's mission.  Ever.  It was meant to play in the same field as the performance RWD sports car segment...not the pony cars.  The magazines were the ones who decided to try and make a "pony car fighter" with comparos to the V6 ponycars (which the Genesis won I might add).  Now if they drop the 5.0R V8 into the Genesis Coupe, I'll change my mind.....

But the Genesis (like the G37, 370Z, etc) are not true pony car competitors, even though they may outhandle/outbrake them...

Revisionist history, my friend. I well remember reading comparo tests of the Hyundai vs the Mustang. And I also well remember the cheerleading section making the usual inane arguments about how only a fool would buy a Mustang when the Hyundai was so much better in every way. I fully expect this will play out the same way.

Again...exactly as I said...THE MAGAZINES made the Genesis a ""pony car" competitor, not Hyundai.  No one in their right mind thinks the Genesis is a true pony car.  Heck...even myself prior to the 414HP Mustang would have picked the 370Z over the Mustang because the 370Z was quicker, handled better, braked better, etc for only a bit more cash.  But in no way would I call the 370Z a pony car, or a direct competitor to the pony cars.  

[rrocket]

Nothing other than a car produced by the big three will ever truly be a pony car. To a lot of people, that won't matter.  Bob looked at the mustang and Camaro before buying his Genesis. I am sure the definition of Pony Car had nothing to do with it.

Indeed...Bob was looking for slick handling...something that typically hasn't been a pony car trait.  I don't think anyone ever thought the Genesis was going to be competing in the Pony Car Wars.  Heck...even as it stands, it seems it's just the Camaro vs. Mustang in the war...

[Erik]

The Genesis coupe was supposed to slay the domestic ponycar dragon.

Without a V8?  That was never it's mission.  Ever.  It was meant to play in the same field as the performance RWD sports car segment...not the pony cars.  The magazines were the ones who decided to try and make a "pony car fighter" with comparos to the V6 ponycars (which the Genesis won I might add).  Now if they drop the 5.0R V8 into the Genesis Coupe, I'll change my mind.....

But the Genesis (like the G37, 370Z, etc) are not true pony car competitors, even though they may outhandle/outbrake them...

Revisionist history, my friend. I well remember reading comparo tests of the Hyundai vs the Mustang. And I also well remember the cheerleading section making the usual inane arguments about how only a fool would buy a Mustang when the Hyundai was so much better in every way. I fully expect this will play out the same way.

Again...exactly as I said...THE MAGAZINES made the Genesis a ""pony car" competitor, not Hyundai.  No one in their right mind thinks the Genesis is a true pony car.  Heck...even myself prior to the 414HP Mustang would have picked the 370Z over the Mustang because the 370Z was quicker, handled better, braked better, etc for only a bit more cash.  But in no way would I call the 370Z a pony car, or a direct competitor to the pony cars. 

I drove both the 2010 Mustang and the 370z, and found the Mustang to be just more fun.

Anyhow, I really don't get your point, Rrocket.

[Erik]

I think it might from a performance perspective, but I just can't see potential Mustang or Camaro buyers considering a Kia.  Heck, I can't even see Mustang and Camaro buyers cross shopping the two.  I could be entirely wrong, but that's my thoughts on it.   

Uhhhh... isn't that pretty much exactly what I said, that started all this?

Yeah, but cause you said it, it must be wrong.

[Jaeger]

Nothing other than a car produced by the big three will ever truly be a pony car. To a lot of people, that won't matter.  Bob looked at the mustang and Camaro before buying his Genesis. I am sure the definition of Pony Car had nothing to do with it.

Which big three - don't you mean the big two?  Aren't Chryslers all Italian imports now? Haven't we been told that it's ownership that matters, not where the car is built?  Therefore foreign ownership = import?  Did that rule get both quietly and conveniently changed?

Jaeger

[rrocket]

I drove both the 2010 Mustang and the 370z, and found the Mustang to be just more fun.

I didn't.  And I blame the limp feeling 315HP V8.  Now the 414HP V8 Mustang is something else altogether....

[Jaeger]

I think it might from a performance perspective, but I just can't see potential Mustang or Camaro buyers considering a Kia.  Heck, I can't even see Mustang and Camaro buyers cross shopping the two.  I could be entirely wrong, but that's my thoughts on it.   

Uhhhh... isn't that pretty much exactly what I said, that started all this?

Yeah, but cause you said it, it must be wrong.

I missed where Canuck described the Genesis as a Korean kimchee ripoff - maybe you could point that out for me?

Jaeger

[rrocket]

Which big three - don't you mean the big two?  Aren't Chryslers all Italian imports now? Haven't we been told that it's ownership that matters, not where the car is built?  Therefore foreign ownership = import?  Did that rule get both quietly and conveniently changed?

Jaeger

Oh yea...true...I forgot.  Chrysler is as foreign as Kia.  My bad...

[ajay]

Quote
Kia bosses are also thought to be in favour of boosting the company's sporty image with hot hatches based on the Kia Rio supermini and next C'eed.

Hot hatches , great idea !
i'm still waiting for the Veloster version from Kia
A Miata fighter , can't get better than that imo , one with a fixed roof (ft-s)

He is such a good designer I look forward to each new model .

[Ice]

Kia may try to differentiate themselves so they may not go 1:1 with Hyundai. So probably no Veloster but a MX-5 competitor on the same platform it sounds like it. And a hot hatch version of the Forte would be interesting to see... the Koup has pretty good lines.

[dougjp]

I own a Mustang, couldn't care less about the sanctity of the phrase "pony car" as its a rather old saying, and will cross shop anything that works for me. In other words, I like Camaros, Challengers, Genesis Coupes, G37, Chargers etc.

Current thinking has changed with the landscape. Meaning, its more important and appropriate now to join together regardless of the manufacturers of these vehicles "in defense" against the "greenies" and the comatose drivers that aren't "interested" in driving, and just want an A to B "appliance" with fuel economy as their only excitement in life. Not that these people haven't always been around, just that they bleat louder these days it seems....   

That article actually did make a point several times that Kia should build a car to take on the Miata (MX5). That goes for other manufacturers too. Now that to me makes a whole lot of sense.

[rrocket]

I own a Mustang, couldn't care less about the sanctity of the phrase "pony car" as its a rather old saying, and will cross shop anything that works for me. In other words, I like Camaros, Challengers, Genesis Coupes, G37, Chargers etc.

Current thinking has changed with the landscape. Meaning, its more important and appropriate now to join together regardless of the manufacturers of these vehicles "in defense" against the "greenies" and the comatose drivers that aren't "interested" in driving, and just want an A to B "appliance" with fuel economy as their only excitement in life. Not that these people haven't always been around, just that they bleat louder these days it seems....   

That article actually did make a point several times that Kia should build a car to take on the Miata (MX5). That goes for other manufacturers too. Now that to me makes a whole lot of sense.

Well I don't think any of us are against someone bringing a new V8 powered car to the market...I'm a torque whore, so I'm pretty happy to see it...and will be more than happy to hear what it sounds like!!!

My only dispute with this entire thread was that the Genesis came to market as some kind of pony car slayer.  And that's utter BS....

[Ice]

I'm kind of a "greenie" sometimes but a proper V8 rear wheel drive sports coupe is still par for the course somewhere in the automotive landscape. The latest vehicles meet all the proper emissions standards and are still more powerful and capable than their forebears. Actually I'm unconventional so a high powered twin turbo I4 works for me too...

I really like some of the quirky cars coming this way... the Veloster for one. The base model sounds pretty good but when a turbo 1.6 DI version was spotted. All the better. Room for all of these types of cars.

[Mike]

I own a Mustang, couldn't care less about the sanctity of the phrase "pony car" as its a rather old saying, and will cross shop anything that works for me. In other words, I like Camaros, Challengers, Genesis Coupes, G37, Chargers etc.

Current thinking has changed with the landscape. Meaning, its more important and appropriate now to join together regardless of the manufacturers of these vehicles "in defense" against the "greenies" and the comatose drivers that aren't "interested" in driving, and just want an A to B "appliance" with fuel economy as their only excitement in life. Not that these people haven't always been around, just that they bleat louder these days it seems....   

That article actually did make a point several times that Kia should build a car to take on the Miata (MX5). That goes for other manufacturers too. Now that to me makes a whole lot of sense.

Well I don't think any of us are against someone bringing a new V8 powered car to the market...I'm a torque whore, so I'm pretty happy to see it...and will be more than happy to hear what it sounds like!!!

My only dispute with this entire thread was that the Genesis came to market as some kind of pony car slayer.  And that's utter BS....

Yeah, I wouldn't say it is a true pony car either, but if you want a cheap V8 RWD, the rivals that are out there are pretty obvious.

[conwelpic]

July 7 - from the Korean car blog

http://thekoreancarblog.com/2011/07/kia-unveil-v8powered-rearwheel-drive-coupe-frankfurt-motor-show/

[CanuckS2K]

July 7 - from the Korean car blog

http://thekoreancarblog.com/2011/07/kia-unveil-v8powered-rearwheel-drive-coupe-frankfurt-motor-show/

Looks great, very Audi TTish.....which certainly isn't a surprise at all.

[Erik]

Holy crap!!! That looks awesome.

[Jaeger]

Sweet.

Jaeger