Author Topic: Kia to take on the Camaro/Mustang/Challenger (Read 11439 times)

5 Wheel Drive · « **Reply #40 on:** July 07, 2011, 01:08:04 pm »

Ditto Erik & Jaeger!!! WOW!!!!

Shnak · « **Reply #41 on:** July 07, 2011, 01:59:35 pm »

Quote from: CanuckG35 on July 07, 2011, 12:12:21 pm

Quote from: conwelpic on July 07, 2011, 12:10:29 pm
July 7 - from the Korean car blog

http://thekoreancarblog.com/2011/07/kia-unveil-v8powered-rearwheel-drive-coupe-frankfurt-motor-show/

Looks great, very Audi TTish.....which certainly isn't a surprise at all.

Looks more like a R8 than a TT from the front, IMO. Still, clearly Audi is the influence, which as you said, isn't surprising at all. No matter the influence, it looks great!

mrthompson · « **Reply #42 on:** July 07, 2011, 02:42:38 pm »

Very nice.

rrocket · « **Reply #43 on:** July 07, 2011, 04:52:04 pm »

I think it looks good...but a little too Audi-esque IMO....So much for the designer being able to think outside the box a bit....One trick pony??

dougjp · « **Reply #44 on:** July 07, 2011, 05:27:13 pm »

Gorgeous. As long as the rear end shape and the lights etc. have some class and don't go all "ricer".

CatsEye68 · « **Reply #45 on:** July 07, 2011, 06:43:56 pm »

Once again, the Korean manufacturers demonstrate how they are very capable mimics. Looks like an Audi to me as well. I think the ponycars are safe.

rrocket · « **Reply #46 on:** July 07, 2011, 07:46:19 pm »

Quote from: CatsEye68 on July 07, 2011, 06:43:56 pm

Once again, the Korean manufacturers demonstrate how they are very capable mimics. Looks like an Audi to me as well. I think the ponycars are safe.

Insert foot into mouth....

You mean like the extremely original designs the domestic pony cars have...all copied from 1960s cars??

Yep...that shows a real keen sense of design creativity and a distinct lack of mimicking, huh?...

Say what you will about the KIA design, but it's far more original design than ANY of the current pony cars..

FWIW the Chief of Design for Kia is Peter Schreyer...the guy who penned the Audi TT. He worked for Audi from 1980-2006. Like musicians and artists, many designers have a "style" or design philosophy they often follow...

Erik · « **Reply #47 on:** July 07, 2011, 08:27:43 pm »

He was the guy who designed the very auto union inspired, retro-esque Audi TT?

rrocket · « **Reply #48 on:** July 07, 2011, 08:37:21 pm »

Quote from: Erik on July 07, 2011, 08:27:43 pm

He was the guy who designed the very auto union inspired, retro-esque Audi TT?

The Audi TT is not designed after a specific car, unlike the Beetle, the Mustang, Camaro, T-Bird, Ford GT, Challenger, etc.. There is no "old" TT it was modelled after, unlike the other cars.

In their words: "If you look at something like the Audi TT, it's taking the history of a company and looking at it in different chapters — Auto Union, the designer Erwin Komenda and his philosophies, Bauhaus and the brands of Audi and Quattro — and creating a new screenplay."

Same idea with newer Jaguars and Astons. They may have some old cues, but the design itself is not cribbed from an "old" car. Rather a design philosophy than a design copy.

FWIW, I'm not fond of the TT design. It looks like someone crushed a Beetle...

FWIW #2 Freeman Thomas and J Mays were involved with the Mustang, Beetle and Audi TT....

FWIW#3

Here is the car that "inspired" the Audi TT (Auto Union Type D)

Erik · « **Reply #49 on:** July 07, 2011, 08:55:28 pm »

Quote from: CatsEye68 on July 07, 2011, 06:43:56 pm

Once again, the Korean manufacturers demonstrate how they are very capable mimics. Looks like an Audi to me as well. I think the ponycars are safe.

Mimicking what? Very original design, if you ask me. Sure, there is some Audi feel to it. Unavoidable, as they hired a great designer who was very responsible for the look of modern Audis. Do you think if they would have hired Ian Callum, the car would not have had a resemblance to an Aston or Jaguar? Only so many great designers, and they chose well. This is easily the best looking car to come out of Korea, and I am impressed that they seem to have let him design it, without bringing the committees in to screw it up. Very nice job, I say.

CanuckS2K · « **Reply #50 on:** July 07, 2011, 09:14:38 pm »

Quote from: Erik on July 07, 2011, 08:55:28 pm

Quote from: CatsEye68 on July 07, 2011, 06:43:56 pm
Once again, the Korean manufacturers demonstrate how they are very capable mimics. Looks like an Audi to me as well. I think the ponycars are safe.

Mimicking what? Very original design, if you ask me. Sure, there is some Audi feel to it. Unavoidable, as they hired a great designer who was very responsible for the look of modern Audis. Do you think if they would have hired Ian Callum, the car would not have had a resemblance to an Aston or Jaguar? Only so many great designers, and they chose well. This is easily the best looking car to come out of Korea, and I am impressed that they seem to have let him design it, without bringing the committees in to screw it up. Very nice job, I say.

Completely agree. Kia made a fantastic move by hiring Peter Schreyer and their vehicles have benefited tremendously because of it. This car looks fantastic, looking forward to seeing some more pics of it.

Jaeger · « **Reply #51 on:** July 08, 2011, 05:33:00 am »

Quote from: CanuckG35 on July 07, 2011, 09:14:38 pm

Quote from: Erik on July 07, 2011, 08:55:28 pm
Quote from: CatsEye68 on July 07, 2011, 06:43:56 pm
Once again, the Korean manufacturers demonstrate how they are very capable mimics. Looks like an Audi to me as well. I think the ponycars are safe.

Mimicking what? Very original design, if you ask me. Sure, there is some Audi feel to it. Unavoidable, as they hired a great designer who was very responsible for the look of modern Audis. Do you think if they would have hired Ian Callum, the car would not have had a resemblance to an Aston or Jaguar? Only so many great designers, and they chose well. This is easily the best looking car to come out of Korea, and I am impressed that they seem to have let him design it, without bringing the committees in to screw it up. Very nice job, I say.

Completely agree. Kia made a fantastic move by hiring Peter Schreyer and their vehicles have benefited tremendously because of it. This car looks fantastic, looking forward to seeing some more pics of it.

Completely agree as well. The design future of Kia looks very bright indeed.

Jaeger

CanuckS2K · « **Reply #52 on:** July 08, 2011, 12:18:21 pm »

Came across this spy shot of the rear.

CatsEye68 · « **Reply #53 on:** July 08, 2011, 02:00:25 pm »

Quote from: rrocket on July 07, 2011, 07:46:19 pm

Quote from: CatsEye68 on July 07, 2011, 06:43:56 pm
Once again, the Korean manufacturers demonstrate how they are very capable mimics. Looks like an Audi to me as well. I think the ponycars are safe.

Insert foot into mouth....

You mean like the extremely original designs the domestic pony cars have...all copied from 1960s cars??

Yep...that shows a real keen sense of design creativity and a distinct lack of mimicking, huh?...

Reposting, because my response to my good friend rrocket seems to have mysteriously disappeared.... hmmmm.

As I was saying, you can't mimic YOURSELF.

Quote

FWIW the Chief of Design for Kia is Peter Schreyer...the guy who penned the Audi TT. He worked for Audi from 1980-2006. Like musicians and artists, many designers have a "style" or design philosophy they often follow...

Well, I guess if you change employers, you CAN mimic yourself.

Erik · « **Reply #54 on:** July 08, 2011, 02:35:42 pm »

Quote from: kevlar on July 08, 2011, 12:20:43 pm

i am curious. what are the sales numbers for the camaro, mustang and challenger? i don't see many of them in toronto or at least downtown. (the mustang seems to do alright). if anything, this car looks like it is more aimed at the a5 and 3 series coupe than the pony car crowd. this simply looks too minimalist to appeal to the muscle car crowd.

About 80,000 Camaros a year, slightly less Mustangs and 40-50,000 Challengers or so. Pretty healthy niche.

CanuckS2K · « **Reply #55 on:** July 08, 2011, 04:30:02 pm »

^ Healthy niche indeed. Given those numbers it was a smart move by GM to bring back the Camaro. Obviously a lot of lost sales over the years when they didn't have it. Glad to see it's doing well for them. As far as appearance goes, I still prefer the look of the Challenger over the other two. Don't know exactly what it is, but I just love the look of the Challenger R/T. For an overall package though, the 5.0 would have my money.

Jaeger · « **Reply #56 on:** July 09, 2011, 03:42:41 pm »

Quote from: kevlar on July 09, 2011, 02:59:17 pm

Wow. That's a solid niche. I never see the camaro in dt toronto. Lots of mustangs and the odd challenger though. Personally I don't quite get the appeal of these cars. It's not so much the big engine format, it's just that they all appear to be so unnecessarily big. It's like they are not even trying to show any physical restraint. The challenger in particular is massive. The a5 is 6-9 inches shorter in Length and at least a couple inches lower and they still somehow wedged a v8 under it's hood. Why would Kia want to emulate the pony car?

I could not agree more. The Mustang is the only one that looks "right sized" to me. Oh, and who said Kia is trying to emulate a pony car? Not Kia, as far as I can see.

Jaeger

dougjp · « **Reply #57 on:** July 09, 2011, 05:19:07 pm »

Quote from: kevlar on July 09, 2011, 02:59:17 pm

Wow. That's a solid niche. I never see the camaro in dt toronto. Lots of mustangs and the odd challenger though. Personally I don't quite get the appeal of these cars. It's not so much the big engine format, it's just that they all appear to be so unnecessarily big. It's like they are not even trying to show any physical restraint. The challenger in particular is massive. The a5 is 6-9 inches shorter in Length and at least a couple inches lower and they still somehow wedged a v8 under it's hood. Why would Kia want to emulate the pony car?

I think Kia is only trying to make a "halo" car, however by all accounts, before they do, they need to hire away a suspension engineer from BMW or wherever. Visual design won't be enough.

I'm getting off topic but in response to the comment about dimensions, here's a comparison. The answer I think is simple, Audi is a more comprehensive overall design making the most of space, whereas the others don't bother minimizing overhang or eliminate under the hood extra access space for example. By the way, you mean the S5 which is the same body as the A5. The A5 only has a 4 cyl. 2.0T this year, and last year had a 3.2 V6 as the biggest engine.

Audi S5 V8 Challenger V8 Mustang V8 Camaro V8

Wheel Base 108.3" 116.0" 107.1" 112.3"

Overall Length 182.1" 197.7" <eek!> 188.2" 190.4"

Weight 3,858 lbs. 4,170 lbs. (OMG!) 3,605 lbs. 3,860 lbs.

I should add that I find the Challenger the best looking, and it has a great sound too. But with those numbers, its a No from me, and thank you very much for coming.

Gamefreak · « **Reply #58 on:** July 09, 2011, 07:13:15 pm »

Even though Dodge styled the new Challenger after the old one, I can't help but think the new one looks like a boat every time I see it.

CatsEye68 · « **Reply #59 on:** July 09, 2011, 08:19:59 pm »

Quote from: Gamefreak on July 09, 2011, 07:13:15 pm

Even though Dodge styled the new Challenger after the old one, I can't help but think the new one looks like a boat every time I see it.

If you really want to see that brought home, find a new one parked next to an original, such as at a car show. Unbelievable difference. The new one looks to be about a foot higher, especially in the rear, and is just generally bulky, where the original is svelte by comparison.