Topic: Scion Dimension

[ajay]

Year or 2 ago , some race team heavily modded a Genesis coupe  - one for track use , took ALOT of weight out of it for starters then moved the engine back a few inches to get the right balance .

[Triple Bob]

Year or 2 ago , some race team heavily modded a Genesis coupe  - one for track use , took ALOT of weight out of it for starters then moved the engine back a few inches to get the right balance .

I agree it should definitely be lighter for what it is, but you can't really compare road cars to track car weight, you would take a lot of weight out of any road car.  And yes it's 55/45, but has to be the least understeery car I've ever driven!

[ArticSteve]

Based on Ford's new 2.0 DI motor in the Focus rated @ 160 hp I think it's reasonable to assume this new Subaru motor will be about the same.  IMO, most will go out the door in automatic.

[Erik]

I'm expecting it will be the best out there with only a Miata to equal it in a truly well balanced car
in its price range or under

 

Not one to defend my own car, which normally results in a lot of fanboy remarks round here, but I don't understand your comment above?  The Genesis Coupe has won many accolades for it's well balanced handling, and the V6 has also won many comparison tests, against great cars such as the Mustang.  Being the owner of one I can attest to the fact it certainly is a well balanced car, and is extremely easy to handle below, on, or well above the limit.  It is a very predictable car which makes it great fun to drive.

So with more power, and a $10K (plus tax) lower price tag, why wouldn't it be considered equal?  Because it's a (dare I speak its name) Hyundai?

Fanboy! 

[EV Dan]

Based on Ford's new 2.0 DI motor in the Focus rated @ 160 hp I think it's reasonable to assume this new Subaru motor will be about the same.  IMO, most will go out the door in automatic.

Unless it redlines at 8000 rpm  We know Toyota have been playing with injection to be used for this plant, so hopefully there will be other mods to help it reach at least 200hp.
E.g S2000 with around 2L NA engine or a Lotus using 1.8L Toyota engine that outputs nearly 200hp.

[ajay]

bob - it was the engine moved back in the chassis I was referring to when it came to " balance "

[Erik]

According to Car and Driver, the engine uses both port and direct injection, switching between them as needed, and should be good for "at least 200hp".

[The Mighty Duck]

Wow. What a bunch of haters in here!

I fell it is so great that Toyota is bringing out a small sportscar. We don't know much of anything about it yet, and everyone is piling on about what a turd it is??? Motor Trend said it would weigh about 2700 lbs (or 300 less than a GTI), so even with less than 200hp, it should move along pretty briskly. A good transmission and a fabulous chassis will make for an incredibly entertaining car to drive.

You anti-import guys keep pounding away at the lack of power.

I'll keep my mind open until I drive one.

I don't think it's a lack of power so much as a power-per-dollar equation. The value seems poor compared to the Genesis or Mustang, which offer the same or more power for less money.

But, the same can be said of the MazdaSpeed3 vs. the VW GTI, and the GTI still sells pretty well. So I agree that power isn't a be all or end all, if it's other attributes are good enough to still make it a good value proposition.

But I would say that, given how good the Genesis and Mustang are said to be, this thing's going to have big shoes to fill if it's going to offer less power for more money. Those other benefits are going to have to be really good.

[ajay]

This car is meant to be a real sports car . perfectly balanced , (car and driver as one , to repeat myself )
This will be a great handling fun car , it doesn't need power to be that way .
Mustang and Genesis are not the same league at all, they are simply too heavy and don't have perfect balance .

This car is more like the Miata sports car but with a roof - pure sports car !
Perfectly balanced . The Miata would be its closest competitor .
( High hp are for other niche sporty cars ).
This car will sell for what it can do , not on its price .
 
Eric interesting news on D.I. and port stuff .

[ArticSteve]

Eric interesting news on D.I. and port stuff .

Toyota has had that system for years.  The additional port injector has nothing to do with HP.  If anything it decreases HP.

What you will find soon among some makers with DI motors is that when these units get up in age, say 200k km plus, the valves will be toasted.

The Toyota system allows the port injectors to clean the valve deposits left by the DI.


and should be good for "at least 200hp".

linky please .... 

The reason Toyota is saying nothing about the HP is because they don't want to spoil the hype.  165 HP, 6 speed automatic with paddle shifters ..... can't wait.

[rrocket]

Toyota has had that system for years.  The additional port injector has nothing to do with HP.  If anything it decreases HP.

What you will find soon among some makers with DI motors is that when these units get up in age, say 200k km plus, the valves will be toasted.

The Toyota system allows the port injectors to clean the valve deposits left by the DI.

Steve...you're a bit off.

Toyota's D4-S injection system has only been available on Lexus' cars since 2006.  No other Toyota's have this system.  The first engines were the 3.5 V6 in the IS line, with the engine producing 306 HP.  The combination of the dual injection system is worth ~11-13% more power, along with better FE.

You ARE right in saying that one of the reasons (apart from addition HP/TQ and FE   ) that Toyota went with the system was to allow the valves to  stay clean, as DI engine are notorious for carbon building, particularly on the valves.

[Triple Bob]

This car is meant to be a real sports car . perfectly balanced , (car and driver as one , to repeat myself )
This will be a great handling fun car , it doesn't need power to be that way .
Mustang and Genesis are not the same league at all, they are simply too heavy and don't have perfect balance .

This car is more like the Miata sports car but with a roof - pure sports car !
Perfectly balanced . The Miata would be its closest competitor .
( High hp are for other niche sporty cars ).
This car will sell for what it can do , not on its price .
 
Eric interesting news on D.I. and port stuff .

How do you know all this, there haven't been any road tests yet.  You seem to be putting it on a pedestal before they have even finished it?  I honestly hope it is 2,700lbs, that would be awesome!  I fear it may not hit that target though.

[ajay]

Its a small car , If Mazda made it right now under  skyactiv it would be lighter than that I expect . 2700 lbs seems reasonable considering its short at 166 inch length .
Also the engine is placed behind the front wheels enabling it to be perfectly balanced . It also has a light engine ala rx8 . The engine is also placed lower - lower center of gravity , improved handling . Its a rear wheel drive car as well .

I've been waiting for a so called affordable sports car like this ever since the Miata came out - but with a REAL roof ! I was hoping Mazda would build it's Kabura , but that never happened so its hard for me to not get excited about this car . Last time I owned a car this small was an 85 Prelude , boy did I love that car . This toy/sub is shorter than that Prelude so I know I will love it -- handling has always been more important to me than hp so this car fits the bill perfectly . ( Only the upcoming Mazda 2 has a shot at being as much fun to drive in my books ). 
The toy/sube was designed with drifting in mind also . Because of all this , I expect it to be a great car before its been tested . 

[The Mighty Duck]

( Only the upcoming Mazda 2 has a shot at being as much fun to drive in my books ). 

The Mazda2 has been on sale for months...

And you honestly think that the next-best handling vehicle to this thing is a FWD economy car? What planet are you on?

[ajay]

Did you learn to read on another planet ? I said "fun to drive" , and I was talking about the next gen Mazda 2 ( The SKYACTIV ONE ) Get with the program .

[DriverJeff]

 

[rrocket]

Did you learn to read on another planet ? I said "fun to drive" , and I was talking about the next gen Mazda 2 ( The SKYACTIV ONE ) Get with the program .

I'm not sure why you'd bring up SKYACTIV, since it won't do anything for performance, or driving enjoyment.  SKYACTIV is a fuel economy technology.  Nothing more.

And I'll also agree...the Mazda2 in any guise is only "fun to drive" when compared to other subcompacts.  It just does not compare to a compact RWD car in any dynamic way whatsoever...handling or fun to drive.  The GTI VW is the car that has come closest (I think) to making people believe that FWD can be rewarding and fun.  And even this car lags behind most any RWD in terms of fun to drive.   

[ajay]

rrocket read this - the "press release" . It will enlighten you on Skyactiv , I warn you , it's a little long !

http://www.autoblog.com/2011/04/21/new-york-2011-mazdas-refreshed-2012-mazda3-looks-to-the-sky/

Re.  small subcompact cars , ala "current"  Mazda 2 is really fun to drive (tranny and engine lets it down), tossable, nimble light weight FUN in capital letters to me . The next 2 will be even better , lighter still , better handling with a more rigid chassis , more powerful motor that is torquier compared to the current model with a 6 speed . A BLAST TO DRIVE in other words imo , only MORE so . Perfect car for me .

 The new Scion will be a blast to drive too imo - more so than the gti could be simply because of its perfect balance .
 The mazda 2 has it beat simply because of it's size and lighter weight for fun to drive imo - I'm sure the gti is fun to drive too, but for me,  these 2 cars are my kind of cars .  I've always liked vw but would never own one because of their reliability scores .

[rrocket]

rrocket read this - the "press release" . It will enlighten you on Skyactiv , I warn you , it's a little long !

http://www.autoblog.com/2011/04/21/new-york-2011-mazdas-refreshed-2012-mazda3-looks-to-the-sky/

Re.  small subcompact cars , ala "current"  Mazda 2 is really fun to drive (tranny and engine lets it down), tossable, nimble light weight FUN in capital letters to me . The next 2 will be even better , lighter still , better handling with a more rigid chassis , more powerful motor that is torquier compared to the current model with a 6 speed . A BLAST TO DRIVE in other words imo , only MORE so . Perfect car for me .

 The new Scion will be a blast to drive too imo - more so than the gti could be simply because of its perfect balance .
 The mazda 2 has it beat simply because of it's size and lighter weight for fun to drive imo - I'm sure the gti is fun to drive too, but for me,  these 2 cars are my kind of cars .  I've always liked vw but would never own one because of their reliability scores .

I've read it before.   As I said...the main purpose of SKYACTIV is better FE.  Added bonus of a bit more HP...but the main selling point is FE.

[The Mighty Duck]

Did you learn to read on another planet ? I said "fun to drive" , and I was talking about the next gen Mazda 2 ( The SKYACTIV ONE ) Get with the program .

Semantics. I'll grant that "fun to drive" is a subjective measure, but if you think the next-best "fun to drive" car to a RWD sports coupe is a FWD economy car, be prepared to get a lot of odd looks.