Author Topic: Any HVAC experts out there? Carrier furnace question. (Read 3279 times)

ktm525 · « **on:** March 02, 2011, 12:25:43 pm »

One of my carrier furnaces (58PAV) is squeaking. I have narrowed it down to the little fan/wheel that spins before the gas ignites. I think it is the inducer exhaust? I assume it vents any gas fumes... Anyhow a quick look shows that OEM Carrier assembly is $525. Can the actual bearing be lubricated (ie squirt a little WD40 and call it good) or replaced? I really don't want to replace the whole assembly...

On that note is furnace cleaning/servicing a scam? The furnaces have not been touched since I moved in 7 years ago...

erich · « **Reply #1 on:** March 02, 2011, 01:13:16 pm »

In January my CO detector went off. I called furnace service for an emergency inspection at midnight on Sunday (about $200) followed by a regular furnace maintenance.
The first service guy found nothing wrong, the second one replaced the igninter and the extractor fan (the one that squeals in your furnace). It helps the gases go out the chimney, and it was probably responsible for my CO alarm. BTW, my furnace is also about years old. And yes, cheaper aftermarket parts are available.
It seems that furnaces need maintenance just like cars.

ktm525 · « **Reply #2 on:** March 02, 2011, 03:09:38 pm »

Looks like it is time to book a clean/service/repair. I am finding it really hard to find parts. I can find the whole exhaust vent assembly but they are pricey. I am hoping for just a motor...

bridgecity · « **Reply #3 on:** March 02, 2011, 03:25:40 pm »

Quote from: ktm525 on March 02, 2011, 12:25:43 pm

On that note is furnace cleaning/servicing a scam? The furnaces have not been touched since I moved in 7 years ago...

I'd like someone with more knowledge to chime in on this also. My Carrier furnace is original to the house (1984), but it has not been inspected since we purchased the house 7 years ago. My gut is telling me to get it inspected, so I should do so. I guess I'm a little apprehensive because I'm sure they'll tell me it needs replacement.

Dexer · « **Reply #4 on:** March 02, 2011, 03:48:17 pm »

I've had very good and honest work done with my annual service on my 1970's era gas furnace.

Last servicing/cleaning/inspection was February 16th, 2011.

They've never been pushy and it's only the last service where I was warned that my furnace is "ancient" and the low efficiency is causing me to spend too much. The guy said I should think about a new furnace because I'm "...already paying for one" with gas burned. In this case, I can't disagree because I think the furnace dates to 1974.

But I don't recall every having a part replaced or being told that something must be fixed.

During the last call, I went downstairs to check on something and I noticed the serviceman was on his cell phone calling in temperature readings from the heat exchanger test and double checking with the supervisor about acceptable tolerances...so he wasn't just playing solitaire on his lap top.

tpl · « **Reply #5 on:** March 02, 2011, 04:01:30 pm »

Quote from: bordercity on March 02, 2011, 03:25:40 pm

Quote from: ktm525 on March 02, 2011, 12:25:43 pm
On that note is furnace cleaning/servicing a scam? The furnaces have not been touched since I moved in 7 years ago...

I'd like someone with more knowledge to chime in on this also. My Carrier furnace is original to the house (1984), but it has not been inspected since we purchased the house 7 years ago. My gut is telling me to get it inspected, so I should do so. I guess I'm a little apprehensive because I'm sure they'll tell me it needs replacement.

Try the appropriate forum on Digital home. http://www.digitalhome.ca
There are a couple of experts on furnaces there.

27 years is certainly the lifespan of a gas furnace. The new ones are about as efficient as one could get and still manage to get rid of the exhaust gases. Like 96%. You'll probably find that you will have a smaller furnace as well ( in terms of Btu output) because of that. And the new motors, electronically controlled multi speed DC motors are very efficient as well, although they are expensive to replace when they do go wrong.

ktm525 · « **Reply #6 on:** March 02, 2011, 04:29:19 pm »

Quote from: Dexer on March 02, 2011, 03:48:17 pm

I've had very good and honest work done with my annual service on my 1970's era gas furnace.

Last servicing/cleaning/inspection was February 16th, 2011.

They've never been pushy and it's only the last service where I was warned that my furnace is "ancient" and the low efficiency is causing me to spend too much. The guy said I should think about a new furnace because I'm "...already paying for one" with gas burned. In this case, I can't disagree because I think the furnace dates to 1974.

But I don't recall every having a part replaced or being told that something must be fixed.

During the last call, I went downstairs to check on something and I noticed the serviceman was on his cell phone calling in temperature readings from the heat exchanger test and double checking with the supervisor about acceptable tolerances...so he wasn't just playing solitaire on his lap top.

But you live in Winnipeg where people are genuinely nice. Not the shark tank of furnace service people here in boom town Calgary. I fear paying for my 22 year old "tech"'s leased lifted Ford F350.

n

Sir Osis of Liver · « **Reply #7 on:** March 02, 2011, 04:50:31 pm »

We replaced the gas furnace on the current house last March. From early March until the end of the heating season we saved almost $300+ compared to the previous year. With the federal and provincial energy savings grants, we got a rebate of almost $1500 on the installation.

The replaced furnace was original to the house (1985), had a single stage and a single speed fan motor. It tested out at 46% efficient, and had pin holes in the heat exchanger, so combustion gas was starting to leak through.

The new furnace is a high efficiency (97%) Trane, with a two stage burner and a variable speed DC fan motor. Huge difference in how comfortable the house is. Leaving the fan on all the time had very little impact on the electricity bill, but we no longer feel the swings in temperature that we used to. And our revised annualized gas bill is now $84/month.

I usually get the furnace cleaned once every year or two.

tortoise · « **Reply #8 on:** March 02, 2011, 05:14:49 pm »

Does annual service need to be done in order to maintain the warranty?

We switched from a 16 year old Keep-Rite Oil furnace to a 3 stage Carrier and our heating bills went from over $300 per month to ~$80. Huge difference.

bridgecity · « **Reply #9 on:** March 02, 2011, 05:22:23 pm »

Quote from: tpl on March 02, 2011, 04:01:30 pm

Try the appropriate forum on Digital home. http://www.digitalhome.ca
There are a couple of experts on furnaces there.

Thanks for the link, I'll check it out.

Ex-airbalancer · « **Reply #10 on:** March 02, 2011, 06:43:05 pm »

Furnace cleaning a bit of the joke, no one ever cleans the AC coil
At over 15 years you will have a hard time finding parts
I would start pricing out a new one

tortoise · « **Reply #11 on:** March 02, 2011, 06:46:16 pm »

Why is it a bit of a joke?

Ex-airbalancer · « **Reply #12 on:** March 02, 2011, 06:52:17 pm »

What is there to clean?

The coil which never gets cleaned
There an heat exchange that you can not get to
then there is the blower wheel which you need a air compressor to clean

Weels · « **Reply #13 on:** March 02, 2011, 07:18:51 pm »

Quote from: tortoise on March 02, 2011, 05:14:49 pm

Does annual service need to be done in order to maintain the warranty? We switched from a 16 year old Keep-Rite Oil furnace to a 3 stage Carrier and our heating bills went from over $300 per month to ~$80. Huge difference.

In our case, yes. We replaced our furnace June last year - the original POS Lennox had a cracked heat exchanger, so had to go.
New one is more efficent, plus has the DC blower motor which runs 24/7 and literally costs pennies a day.

We bought the extended warranty for about $140, and the installer said to have furnace serviced every year, or at least every other year to avoid problems with warranty down the road...

So, don't know what would be cheaper -- never servicing it or paying for an extended warranty and having it serviced regularly with hopes it will last much longer... sort of like a car I guess, eh?

tpl · « **Reply #14 on:** March 02, 2011, 07:31:34 pm »

We have our kit serviced every spring. On the first week warm enough to turn on the AC without damaging it and while it is still cool enough to check the furnace.

We run the fan on low 365/24 and change the filter every 60 days ( 3M mid range one) rather than letting it go the whole 3 months. Humidifier pad ( Aprilaire type) every fall. Furnace has an outside temperature sensor to better control indoor humidity. All Carrier. The Furnace is 1999 so just before the Infinity range. When it dies we'll replace with a Carrier Infinity. The AC unit is already Infinity capable.

I have a zero tolerance for home HVAC gear breaking down so I figure that regular servicing by a technician "certified" by the manufacturer is probably the only thing I can do to keep it all working.

ktm525 · « **Reply #15 on:** March 02, 2011, 09:12:56 pm »

Quote from: airbalancer on March 02, 2011, 06:52:17 pm

What is there to clean?

The coil which never gets cleaned
There an heat exchange that you can not get to
then there is the blower wheel which you need a air compressor to clean

These were my thoughts. I took the panels off and it doesn't look very dusty at all and the furnaces run great. I have older Honeywell electronic filters that seem to do the job.

One of the furnaces is set up with AC. Where would the coil be and how would one clean it?

Ex-airbalancer · « **Reply #16 on:** March 02, 2011, 09:26:16 pm »

The coil is above the furnace with some copper tubes coming out
That is the problem there is usually no access to clean the coil

rrocket · « **Reply #17 on:** March 02, 2011, 09:29:17 pm »

Is it the blower motor?

ktm525 · « **Reply #18 on:** March 03, 2011, 11:35:06 am »

Quote from: rrocket on March 02, 2011, 09:29:17 pm

Is it the blower motor?

No it is the inducer vent motor. Sounds like the bearing is starting to go. It looks like just the motor can be replaced for $99. An assembly for $500. Three bolts, disconnect a couple of electrical leads and the whole inducer assembly (fan/motor/balance wheel) comes out. Local furnace shop wanted $1000 parts plus labour.

Criminal. For now I will try to ride out the minor squeaking until spring/summer. At that point I will remove assembly and try to squirt some lube. If it doesn't work then I will replace the motor.

My biggest gripe is the lack of available furnace parts to the gereal public. The furnace service contractors seem to try to keep this to themselves.. Fortunately there is the USA, the internet, and UPS.

AC coil. I have a small panel where all the copper tubes go into the ductwork above the furnace. The panel is about 9" x 6" and is held by 6 screws. In the summer (when I don't need the furnace)I will remove and see if this panel comes off and check the coil.

Sir Osis of Liver · « **Reply #19 on:** March 03, 2011, 12:22:33 pm »

Quote from: ktm525 on March 03, 2011, 11:35:06 am

Quote from: rrocket on March 02, 2011, 09:29:17 pm
Is it the blower motor?

No it is the inducer vent motor. Sounds like the bearing is starting to go. It looks like just the motor can be replaced for $99. An assembly for $500. Three bolts, disconnect a couple of electrical leads and the whole inducer assembly (fan/motor/balance wheel) comes out. Local furnace shop wanted $1000 parts plus labour. Criminal. For now I will try to ride out the minor squeaking until spring/summer. At that point I will remove assembly and try to squirt some lube. If it doesn't work then I will replace the motor.

My biggest gripe is the lack of available furnace parts to the gereal public. The furnace service contractors seem to try to keep this to themselves.. Fortunately there is the USA, the internet, and UPS.

AC coil. I have a small panel where all the copper tubes go into the ductwork above the furnace. The panel is about 9" x 6" and is held by 6 screws. In the summer (when I don't need the furnace)I will remove and see if this panel comes off and check the coil.

We thought the AC in our house was shot, because the home inspector only got a 1C drop across the coil. We bought the house in September 09 so didn't bother dealing with it then. Then in March 2010 we had the furnace replaced. When the contractor did that work, he also cleaned the AC coil, but never told me, and didn't apparently charge for it.

In the Spring I had an AC guy stop by to look it over and get an estimate on replacing it. The gas pressures came back as nominal and he measured a 22C drop across the coil, so he said the unit was fine and not to worry about it.