Author Topic: Anyone worried about the price of gas?  (Read 16886 times)

Offline tpl

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Re: Anyone worried about the price of gas?
« Reply #40 on: February 25, 2011, 05:02:12 am »
Let me ask another more hypothetical question. Let's say that one day the oil companies are forced to tell us where the oil used to make our gasoline actually comes from - you know, like manufacturers have to tell us where our food is grown and where all of our consumer goods are made. You're driving down the road and notice you're running out of gas. There are two gas stations ahead, one selling gas from some repressive, dictatorial middle eastern regime like Libya at $1 a liter. The other one sells gas from right here at home, but it costs $1.50. What would you do?

I would buy the cheap from the dictators.  The sooner they run out of oil the sooner they'll be just an ignorable spot on the map.  Now I wouldn't be buying oil from them now...I'd be taking oil from them now and would have been taking it since 1973.

 A more serious answer tho'. Some US states are saying that they do not want to buy "dirty" Oilsands oil from Canada.   If they are serious about this I would ( were I in charge) immediately suspend ALL export sales of conventional "clean" oil and say; This is what we are selling. Buy it or walk.

Even more serious answer. Depends where the 50 cents is going.   Local taxes?, Fed taxes? Some scheme to hug trees?
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Offline tpl

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Re: Anyone worried about the price of gas?
« Reply #41 on: February 25, 2011, 05:04:52 am »
The price is going to spike for a bit and then likely to settle down but it will always be inching upward. The supply is pretty much tapped out at the current maximum level according to what I've read. So combine that with increasing demand means the price will go up and we know that were either near or slightly past the peak in terms of oil production so it will be getting more expensive in the future. Slowly, with spikes, but slowly going up.

But Canada is a "net export" oil country.  95%+ of our export go to the USA.  If we didn't send out oil there when things flare up in the world, we could have plenty for us to continue having dirt cheap gasoline. (at least that's what we'd hope)

More likely we'd have the Stars and Stripes flying over Canada. GIs in the streets and some superannuated US Senator as our "Governor General".

CatsEye68

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Re: Anyone worried about the price of gas?
« Reply #42 on: February 25, 2011, 08:09:56 am »
The current spike is, as always, fuelled by speculators and media hype. Speculators need to be shut down by governments as they are no better than Enron was in manipulating or "gaming" the market during the false electricity crisis in California 10 years ago. As for the media -- just tune them out. They exist only to instill fear and panic.

Offline safristi

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Re: Anyone worried about the price of gas?
« Reply #43 on: February 25, 2011, 08:13:35 am »
The price is going to spike for a bit and then likely to settle down but it will always be inching upward. The supply is pretty much tapped out at the current maximum level according to what I've read. So combine that with increasing demand means the price will go up and we know that were either near or slightly past the peak in terms of oil production so it will be getting more expensive in the future. Slowly, with spikes, but slowly going up.

But Canada is a "net export" oil country.  95%+ of our export go to the USA.  If we didn't send out oil there when things flare up in the world, we could have plenty for us to continue having dirt cheap gasoline. (at least that's what we'd hope)

More likely we'd have the Stars and Stripes flying over Canada. GIs in the streets and some superannuated US Senator as our "Governor General".
.............so can we call those 3   "DICK ARMEY".... :stick:

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Offline No H2O

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Re: Anyone worried about the price of gas?
« Reply #44 on: February 25, 2011, 08:57:25 am »
I drive something like 45-50,000 km per year, so paying for gas is just part of the deal.

I take it, for business, in which case, your gas is either paid for or if you are self employed, the price of gas is simply factored into the price of the services you provide.
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Offline No H2O

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Re: Anyone worried about the price of gas?
« Reply #45 on: February 25, 2011, 08:59:18 am »
But I think I'll end up more, Ford Focus and Ferrari 348.

I was thinking, my 993 will be my daily driver and a new Porsche 918, the fun car.

Offline Mike

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Re: Anyone worried about the price of gas?
« Reply #46 on: February 25, 2011, 08:59:51 am »
I'm not worried yet, just being financially smart.  That means the SX4 is driven a lot more to work and the WRX (with it's spanking new exhaust) sits in the garage  :'(

Offline mmret

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Re: Anyone worried about the price of gas?
« Reply #47 on: February 25, 2011, 09:03:30 am »
The stuff is still dirt cheap. $1.20 CAD pays for someone to find it, someone to drill a hole, bribes to be paid, wars to be fought, a rig to be set, safety equipment to be bought and implemented, workers to be hired and trained and employed, just to get it out of the ground. And then you have to put it on a huge boat and ship it half way across the world, where its refined, QC'd, then transported to tens of thousands of conveniently located filling stations, where its stored again in huge underground vats and pumped into your car at your leisure. All the while you pay huge taxes on the gasoline directly along with all the indirect taxes / royalties all the way up the stream. And the gas station operator still needs to pay to keep his lights on. The stuff is cheaper than Coca Cola and a million times more useful.

And still bring massive profits in for all companies involved. So is it really cheap? What's the mark-up I'm curious...

Ask yourself what the profit is on the marginal barrel.
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Offline safristi

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Re: Anyone worried about the price of gas?
« Reply #48 on: February 25, 2011, 09:07:42 am »
with it's spanking new exhaust sits in the garage  :'(

 U naughty boy you............

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Re: Anyone worried about the price of gas?
« Reply #49 on: February 25, 2011, 09:27:48 am »
Keeping the oil in Canada would probably go against international trade treaties, it would increase tensions with our trade partners and it would require government regulations to enforce companies not to sell internationally. So it's not really feasible politically. I'll also point out that doing this would encourage Canadians to stay addicted to cheap gas even longer and would delay all investments made to counter this dependence. Since oil is going to run out one day, it would leave Canada way behind other countries when that day comes. It is not a good idea in the long term. The ideal way of doing things is probably to put high excise taxes on oil (in addition to those already existing) and dedicate that money to investments on shaking off the addiction. In other words, getting gas to subsidize its alternatives.

Yes it sucks, but people who ignore long term dangers in favor of avoiding short term inconveniences always lead to disasters.

BTW, to the Albertans whining about equalization payments... you are "Dutch disease"-ing our manufacturing economies with your oil, weakening the rest of Canada by pulling the dollar value up, making exports less viable. Canada started losing manufacturing jobs in 2004 (in the US, it only started falling in mid-2006) and it has not stopped yet. Look at what it did to Ontario. The very least you can do is pay some compensation for that.

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Re: Anyone worried about the price of gas?
« Reply #50 on: February 25, 2011, 09:38:16 am »
Ask yourself what the profit is on the marginal barrel.

When you sell countless barrels year after year, I'd take a 10 cent profit per $100 barrel. Its more than I make now.

Offline aquadorhj

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Re: Anyone worried about the price of gas?
« Reply #51 on: February 25, 2011, 09:43:43 am »
BTW, to the Albertans whining about equalization payments... you are "Dutch disease"-ing our manufacturing economies with your oil, weakening the rest of Canada by pulling the dollar value up, making exports less viable. Canada started losing manufacturing jobs in 2004 (in the US, it only started falling in mid-2006) and it has not stopped yet. Look at what it did to Ontario. The very least you can do is pay some compensation for that.

on the flip side, alberta sells oil at the market price regardless of what it is.   when the economy tanked, numerous oil companies suspended new projects and laid off thousands of people.  
alberta isn't the only resource heavy province. most western provinces are.   and politically, west gets screwed by east a lot, or at least had been in the past.   think of it as payback.  ;)

no, but kidding aside, it is sad that manufacturing industry has suffered, but how is that alberta's fault?  

each provinces make do with what they have.  we in the west have natural resources.  you in the east have "culture", population and other resources.

and the following link says it all about Quebec's contribution to canada. http://www.ottawasun.com/comment/columnists/l_ian_macdonald/2010/08/05/14936591.html

your post made sense until you attacked alberta.  why would you do that?

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Offline TopGun

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Re: Anyone worried about the price of gas?
« Reply #52 on: February 25, 2011, 09:52:55 am »
I'm not worried yet, just being financially smart.  That means the SX4 is driven a lot more to work and the WRX (with it's spanking new exhaust) sits in the garage  :'(

With all due respect Mike...and I certainly mean that to a guy that drove an RX8 in the BullRun...how much are you really saving?  Combine that with what you're "losing" with respect to driving the WRX.  You may come to a different decision.

Unfortunately, I've seen some people get terminally ill diagnoses.  What happens?  Naturally, they go nuts doing stuff they wish they did years ago.  Saving money all of a sudden is pointless.  Ever since seeing that, I try and strike a balance.  Ya...save for a rainy day because that is most LIKELY to happen.  At the same time, don't save so much that it holds you back from what you want to do.

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Re: Anyone worried about the price of gas?
« Reply #53 on: February 25, 2011, 10:30:38 am »
The stuff is still dirt cheap. $1.20 CAD pays for someone to find it, someone to drill a hole, bribes to be paid, wars to be fought, a rig to be set, safety equipment to be bought and implemented, workers to be hired and trained and employed, just to get it out of the ground. And then you have to put it on a huge boat and ship it half way across the world, where its refined, QC'd, then transported to tens of thousands of conveniently located filling stations, where its stored again in huge underground vats and pumped into your car at your leisure. All the while you pay huge taxes on the gasoline directly along with all the indirect taxes / royalties all the way up the stream. And the gas station operator still needs to pay to keep his lights on. The stuff is cheaper than Coca Cola and a million times more useful.

And still bring massive profits in for all companies involved. So is it really cheap? What's the mark-up I'm curious...

Ask yourself what the profit is on the marginal barrel.

I answer my own questions...



Not bad..

Offline Mike

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Re:
« Reply #54 on: February 25, 2011, 10:31:25 am »
Quote
Quote
I'm not worried yet, just being financially smart.  That means the SX4 is driven a lot more to work and the WRX (with it's spanking new exhaust) sits in the garage  :'(
With all due respect Mike...and I certainly mean that to a guy that drove an RX8 in the BullRun...how much are you really saving?  Combine that with what you're "losing" with respect to driving the WRX.  You may come to a different decision.

Unfortunately, I've seen some people get terminally ill diagnoses.  What happens?  Naturally, they go nuts doing stuff they wish they did years ago.  Saving money all of a sudden is pointless.  Ever since seeing that, I try and strike a balance.  Ya...save for a rainy day because that is most LIKELY to happen.  At the same time, don't save so much that it holds you back from what you want to do.

I fully agree.  The WRX was bought mid April last year and I just broke 30000KM, it is not like it is babied.

The SX4 fills up at $45 right now on regular where the WRX fills up at $65+ on premium.  The SX4 also goes about 100KM+ a tank further with the way I drive the WRX. The gf and I commute to and from work together everyday (thank you HOV lane) so only one car needs to be taken.

Add in I am way over on lease mileage thanks to my rallying and the gf doesn't really like me driving the WRX "The way it was meant to be driven" on our daily commute and it makes sense.

Just makes me appreciate the car even more when I go on weekend drives or the odd time I bring it to work. :)

Offline Triple Bob

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Re: Anyone worried about the price of gas?
« Reply #55 on: February 25, 2011, 10:36:37 am »
I'm not worried yet, just being financially smart.  That means the SX4 is driven a lot more to work and the WRX (with it's spanking new exhaust) sits in the garage  :'(

With all due respect Mike...and I certainly mean that to a guy that drove an RX8 in the BullRun...how much are you really saving?  Combine that with what you're "losing" with respect to driving the WRX.  You may come to a different decision.

Unfortunately, I've seen some people get terminally ill diagnoses.  What happens?  Naturally, they go nuts doing stuff they wish they did years ago.  Saving money all of a sudden is pointless.  Ever since seeing that, I try and strike a balance.  Ya...save for a rainy day because that is most LIKELY to happen.  At the same time, don't save so much that it holds you back from what you want to do.

Very well said!  Having seen two people close to me die of cancer, I'm very glad I spent two years driving the Exige, even if it did cost me a bit.  I was living for the moment and loving every day.  And I plan to do it again with the Ferrari. I want the smallest tombstone in the plot, not the biggest.


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Offline Mike

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Re:
« Reply #56 on: February 25, 2011, 10:42:53 am »
Quote
Quote
With all due respect Mike...and I certainly mean that to a guy that drove an RX8 in the BullRun...how much are you really saving?  Combine that with what you're "losing" with respect to driving the WRX.  You may come to a different decision.

Unfortunately, I've seen some people get terminally ill diagnoses.  What happens?  Naturally, they go nuts doing stuff they wish they did years ago.  Saving money all of a sudden is pointless.  Ever since seeing that, I try and strike a balance.  Ya...save for a rainy day because that is most LIKELY to happen.  At the same time, don't save so much that it holds you back from what you want to do.
Very well said!  Having seen two people close to me die of cancer, I'm very glad I spent two years driving the Exige, even if it did cost me a bit.  I was living for the moment and loving every day.  And I plan to do it again with the Ferrari. I want the smallest tombstone in the plot, not the biggest.

I agree with this too. That is why I bought a RX-8 and then a WRX while in the house buying process.  Nice balance between living life and being somewhat responsible.

Wait till you see what I start buying once the house is paid off, lol.

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Re: Anyone worried about the price of gas?
« Reply #57 on: February 25, 2011, 10:45:45 am »
BTW, to the Albertans whining about equalization payments... you are "Dutch disease"-ing our manufacturing economies with your oil, weakening the rest of Canada by pulling the dollar value up, making exports less viable. Canada started losing manufacturing jobs in 2004 (in the US, it only started falling in mid-2006) and it has not stopped yet. Look at what it did to Ontario. The very least you can do is pay some compensation for that.

no, but kidding aside, it is sad that manufacturing industry has suffered, but how is that alberta's fault?  

I thought it was evident enough why, but I'll explain in detail.

It's called the "Dutch Disease" in economics. What happens is that a resource-fueled boom (oil in this case, natural gas in the original Dutch example) drives up the value of the currency. This happens because most of the resources are exported, and so there is increased demand for the local currency in order to purchase those resources. Since the currency's value increases, it makes manufacturing industries less competitive versus rivals in other countries, notably because workers' wages increase relatively to worker in other countries. For example, back when the Canadian dollar was worth 80 American cents, a Canadian worker earning 20$ an hour would be more competitive than an American worker earning 18$ US an hour, since 20$ CAN equaled 16$ US. However, with both currencies at parity, suddenly the Canadian worker earns 20$ US an hour. Thus making things in Canada costs now more than making them in the US. This not only hurts exports, but since it makes imports even cheaper, it also hurts manufacturing for local needs.

Hence, the resource-fueled boom in Alberta is hurting the rest of Canada, especially those regions that depend on manufacturing. Alberta's gain is the loss of every province without oil.

each provinces make do with what they have.  we in the west have natural resources.  you in the east have "culture", population and other resources.

and the following link says it all about Quebec's contribution to canada. http://www.ottawasun.com/comment/columnists/l_ian_macdonald/2010/08/05/14936591.html

your post made sense until you attacked alberta.  why would you do that?

Call it a backlash, Québec bashing came first in this thread, from ktm525. I'm tired of Albertans whining, blasting especially Québec which, per capita, gets the least equalization payments of all provinces getting it apart from Ontario. Manitoba and the Atlantic Provinces get much more equalization per population than Québec does. Why blast Québec only?

Equalization payments aren't the only federal transfers either. In 1994, before the oil boom, Québec's provincial had revenues of around 44,6 billions, of which 40,2 billions came from provincial sources of revenues, around 4,4 billions from federal transfers. The same year, Ontario had revenues of 68,4 billions, of which 60,7 billions came from provincial sources of revenues, meaning 7,7 billions from federal transfers. Alberta? 18,9 billions in total, 15,9 billions from its own sources, 3 billions in federal transfers. Yes, it meant that Québec got less from federal transfers per citizen than Ontario, which in return got less than Alberta.* The oil boom changed the situation, and now Québec does get more per capita than Ontario (around 2 000$ to 1 300 $) and Alberta (2 000$ to 1 150 $)**, but claiming that Québec is leeching off Canada and has always done so is nothing but pure Québec-bashing, especially when you ignore that, by all metrics, the Atlantic provinces get much more out of the Federal government than Québec ever did.

*http://www.pum.umontreal.ca/apqc/94_95/blais/blais.htm in French, my own calculations from the data
*http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/govt56a-eng.htm For revenues per province and territory, I divided by population to get these results

So before the oil boom, Alberta was happily raking in the dough from the Federal government and had done so for decades. Suddenly, they get the oil boom and lots of riches but what was good back then is now evil and unacceptable?

Offline tpl

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Re: Anyone worried about the price of gas?
« Reply #58 on: February 25, 2011, 11:23:11 am »
I think the discussion should stay strictly on Equalisation and not include Federal Health and Social transfers, Immigrant resettlement etc.

I am quite happy to keep a thing called Equalisation but I believe it should be reduced, starting in 2012, by one order of magnitude each year.   Every Billion becomes 100 Million.   In all directions.    By 2015 it would be down to a few cents each way.

But then I believe in a lot of things that would be unacceptable to the power elite in Canada... like property rights, only one kind of Canadian with one set of laws,  public/private mixed Health care and so on.

Offline ktm525

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Re: Anyone worried about the price of gas?
« Reply #59 on: February 25, 2011, 11:24:24 am »
I don't think my comment was "bashing". What grinds my gears is when a Government introduces social programs such as subsidized daycare and has no means or even expectations that it can pay for it. Essentially I am shovelling money to governments who provide programs that I don't have access to.

From the Montreal Gazette:

http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Alberta+biggest+provincial+spender+transfer+payments/4115079/story.html

Alberta sent $14 billion MORE than it received from the Feds last year ($3685 per person).  Over the past six years Alberta has sent in over $102 Billion MORE than they received back. Hard not to question where the money is going....

I completely agree with Sival, Quebec used to be a dynamic, economic power and contributer  in the 50's and 60's before all this silly social engineering began.....