Topic: Does brand influence dealer quality?

[sailor723]

I was wondering if you think the brand represented has a relationship to the quality of a dealership. By quality I mean how likely you are to run into semi-scams like glass etching, mandatory nitrogen filled tires,surprise admin fees popping up after price negotiations etc etc. (or salespeople who are stereotypical car salesmen of the "Herb Tarlek" school of sales )

In my recent shopping trips it seems like these practises seem more prevalent at the "Detroit Three" dealerships in my area than other brands I shopped like Nissan,Lexus,Acura etc. I also didn't run into any of this stuff when we bought the Cooper S at the BMW/Mini dealer.

Interestingly enough my one experience in our local Hyundai store gave me the feeling it was firmly in the "a little bit sleazy, better keep your hand on your wallet" column

[CanuckS2K]

Personally, I don't think there is any correlation between brand and dealer quality.  I think there are both good and bad dealerships of every brand.  As you might agree Sailor, I'd say the worst three dealerships in our city when it comes to service and dealership quality are Fundy Honda, Bretts Chevrolet, and Saint John VW.  I certainly don't think that every Honda, GM, and VW dealership practice horrible service though.  I just think it's hit or miss with just about any brand. 

[johngenx]

The worst dealer I've ever run across is a Nissan dealer.  High pressure, dishonest negotiating tactics, automatic included crap, and on and on.

That said, the dealer in Edmonton with the worst reputation is Derrick Dodge.  They've been the subject of many news reports.  I think many of the "Big Three" dealers developed high pressure tactics in order to make money even with poor product.

[tenpenny]

I was wondering if you think the brand represented has a relationship to the quality of a dealership. By quality I mean how likely you are to run into semi-scams like glass etching, mandatory nitrogen filled tires,surprise admin fees popping up after price negotiations etc etc. (or salespeople who are stereotypical car salesmen of the "Herb Tarlek" school of sales )

In my recent shopping trips it seems like these practises seem more prevalent at the "Detroit Three" dealerships in my area than other brands I shopped like Nissan,Lexus,Acura etc. I also didn't run into any of this stuff when we bought the Cooper S at the BMW/Mini dealer.

Interestingly enough my one experience in our local Hyundai store gave me the feeling it was firmly in the "a little bit sleazy, better keep your hand on your wallet" column

My experience with our local Hyundai and local Kia dealer makes my skin crawl.  Rude, sleazy salespeople, I really wouldn't want to visit their showrooms ever again.

[sailor723]

I wonder if anyone surveys owners and ranks  manufacturer dealer networks in terms of customer satisfaction? (best buying experience, best service experience etc) I don't see anything like that on the Cr surveys

[5 Wheel Drive]

I'd say no.  My brother in law has an '02 BMW 320.  He recently had it at Otto's BMW for some major repair work.  While it was in, the service adviser called him to tell him he needed new windshield wipers.  (apparently about $90, and you can only get them from BMW).  When my brother in law pressed him as to how he knew it needed new ones, he couldn't give him a straight answer.  The part the really shut him up was when he told the sevice adviser that he had bought a new set from him less than a week previously.

Otto's Subaru, OTOH, where we bought the Forester, has been excellent to deal with.  They've never tried to pull stuff like that when it's been in for service.  I always get it back clean, inside and out.

[ArticSteve]

Re: Does brand influence dealer quality?

Distributors seek dealers that can bring in the numbers.  That's how it works.  Sales, parts, extend warranty sales and customer (note a customer is a buyer, not a tire kicker) satisfaction surveys.  Sales "tactics", which are the gripe on this forum are not regulated by the distributor.

[Sival]

I think there is some influence. At least I know that the former Saturn dealership could be expected to be pretty honest and straightforward, that was a big part of the marketing effort and Saturn had its dealers sign deals to adopt certain customer-friendly policies like no haggling and salesmen not getting commission. I don't know if any other brand was this aggressive towards insuring their dealerships' attitude towards customers.

[Triple Bob]

I think it depends on the owner of the dealership, and also who you speak to.  When desperately trying to BUY a car, I was virtually insulted by both VW Waterloo and to a lesser extent Hyundai Waterloo.  I will never go into VW Waterloo ever again, but I get my car serviced at Waterloo Hyundai because it's convenient and the service dept is great.

I have had exceptional service from BMW, Lotus and Subaru, good service from Hyundai, and poor service from Toyota.

I find that when buying it really depends on the sales person, just ask for another.  But what really matters is the service dept, look for good word of mouth recommendations there, as that will be the majority of your interaction with a dealership.  Just get the price you want from a sales person and ignore any BS.

[HeliDriver]

I wonder if anyone surveys owners and ranks  manufacturer dealer networks in terms of customer satisfaction? (best buying experience, best service experience etc) I don't see anything like that on the Cr surveys

These are for the U.S. Don't know if there's anything similar for Canada.

http://www.jdpower.com/autos/ratings/sales-satisfaction/mass-market/

http://www.jdpower.com/autos/ratings/service-ratings/mass-market/

Far and away my most pleasant buying experience was at a Buick/Chevy/GMC dealership. Honda and Nissan were about the same, and merely okay. VW was pretty bad, with your stereotypical sleazebag salesman.

While shopping, I had outstanding service at a local BMW dealer, and both Subaru and Volvo treated me really well also.

[ArticSteve]

I think there is some influence. At least I know that the former Saturn dealership could be expected to be pretty honest and straightforward, that was a big part of the marketing effort and Saturn had its dealers sign deals to adopt certain customer-friendly policies like no haggling and salesmen not getting commission. I don't know if any other brand was this aggressive towards insuring their dealerships' attitude towards customers.

Where are they now 

[sailor723]

I think there is some influence. At least I know that the former Saturn dealership could be expected to be pretty honest and straightforward, that was a big part of the marketing effort and Saturn had its dealers sign deals to adopt certain customer-friendly policies like no haggling and salesmen not getting commission. I don't know if any other brand was this aggressive towards insuring their dealerships' attitude towards customers.

Where are they now 

Seems like a version of "nice guys finish last"

[ArticSteve]

The "Saturn" sales experience and defined prices were smoke and mirrors.

Firstly, the no dicker prices were higher than what the product was worth. 

Secondly, they scr*wed ppl on the trade ins.  If you have a customer who is breaking balls on the new unit, you can always make it back thru the trade in.

If there is no incentive system for the sales staff the business will fail unless you're the only game in town and the car retailing business is the opposite of that.

[emagfreek]

I was wondering if you think the brand represented has a relationship to the quality of a dealership. By quality I mean how likely you are to run into semi-scams like glass etching, mandatory nitrogen filled tires,surprise admin fees popping up after price negotiations etc etc. (or salespeople who are stereotypical car salesmen of the "Herb Tarlek" school of sales )

In my recent shopping trips it seems like these practises seem more prevalent at the "Detroit Three" dealerships in my area than other brands I shopped like Nissan,Lexus,Acura etc. I also didn't run into any of this stuff when we bought the Cooper S at the BMW/Mini dealer.

Interestingly enough my one experience in our local Hyundai store gave me the feeling it was firmly in the "a little bit sleazy, better keep your hand on your wallet" column

Firstly, I would really like to mention that the dealer is the half owner of the brand. When, he has purchased a car from a specific brand, it means that he can have it upto the time period he wants i.e he can use it for his personal use as well, if he wants to.

Secondly, when he has a proper power of possession on the car/vehicle he is having inside his showroom, he owns it really. When he is asked to sell it, we can not trust him until we know him very closely. He can change the built-in instruments and sometimes, engine-related parts as well.

In, 2002, I booked a Hyundai Santro Club from a local dealer and we both were not very familiar to each other. He asked me to visit his office after 2 months for getting my booked-car. I visited him after months but he was not willing to hand me over the keys of my car  for the next whole the month. He used to say that Car is late due to mismanagement of the Company, whose Factory is situated in Karachi, Pakistan somewhere. I believed him and after 4 and half months from the day of my booking, he called me up and told that MY Car has been delivered in his showroom and when I approached the car, I didn't believed it was never used before, the CD player was broken, gas-panel seems to be repaired some time. When I inquired about such sort of condition of the car, I was informed it was same as sent by the Company/Factory.

I personally think dealer effects the reputation of the brand.

[Frontier1]

I can't stand dealers who are arrogant and bad mouth others, ie. my local Toyota dealer.  BTW that Toyota dealer is badly overstock right now wonder why?  I can't stand when I ask how much for that car and they come back 20 min later and tell me $189 bi-weekly.....wtf....ie. my local Hyundai dealer.  My experience with my Nissan dealer is great, then I hear not so great with some in Ottawa.  My belief is the total package regardless of the brand is the "total experience" from delivery to service.  But again the buyers knowledge of cars has a lot to do with it, paying more at one dealer vs another doesn't make the first one a crook, but in many cases it is viewed that way.  Anyhow from my days in the business, the salesperson sold the first car and I as a service manager I sold the next one, I had my "cheat list of secret recalls/campaign/goodwill" in my back pocket and made myself look like a saviour time and time again.

[aquadorhj]

I can't stand dealers who are arrogant and bad mouth others, ie. my local Toyota dealer. 

hate that.  for some reason, i found this to be true at local kia dealer.   nissan dealer too..   why bad mouth the competition when the product you sell has no clear advantage?
local toyota was actually pretty good to me, but i know my friend's brother got ripped at the same dealership..

they come back 20 min later and tell me $189 bi-weekly.....wtf....

  hate this.   what's with all this "bi-weekly" for 80 month crap?   i found that especially younger sales men were always pushing this.  no straight talk if you want to initiate price negotiation.   and because they wanna only talk bi-weekly, i can't negotiate price.   

i'm grateful that i'm not in the market, because having to haggle is really tiresome. 

[Triple Bob]

I can't stand dealers who are arrogant and bad mouth others,

I have a great example.  When I was cross shopping the GC and the Lancer GTS the dealerships in Kitchener were literally next door to each other, they might even be joined, can't remember.  So I was all over the Lancer, then told the guy I had to go over to Alpine Hyundai to test drive the GC.

He said, "Seriously, you'd consider that Korean crap over Mitsubishi?"

"Yep", I said sheepishly, and went off to see how it drove.

Few months down the line, the Mitsubishi dealer lost the franchise as Mitsubishi weren't selling much at all, now they are a KIA dealer!!    Same staff and everything.  I'm dying to go back in there and ask him if he still thinks the same way...

[gta_driver]

Secondly, they scr*wed ppl on the trade ins.  If you have a customer who is breaking balls on the new unit, you can always make it back thru the trade in.

My experience is different. When I traded in the LR for a Saab and number of years back. The dealer gave me $1500 more on trade in then any other dealer.

When my father-in-law traded in his Daewoo Leganza on a Saturn Aura, he received $1000 more then what the vehicle was worth.

[ArticSteve]

My experience is different. When I traded in the LR for a Saab and number of years back. The dealer gave me $1500 more on trade in then any other dealer.

Any dealer or a Saab dealer?  You got $1500 more because that $1500 was built into the price of the Saab.

Same thing with the Aura.  Unless you know the actual cost of the vehicle to the dealer and you need to be part of the dealer to know that, it's all smoke and mirrors with trades.

[gta_driver]

My experience is different. When I traded in the LR for a Saab and number of years back. The dealer gave me $1500 more on trade in then any other dealer.

Any dealer or a Saab dealer?  You got $1500 more because that $1500 was built into the price of the Saab.

Same thing with the Aura.  Unless you know the actual cost of the vehicle to the dealer and you need to be part of the dealer to know that, it's all smoke and mirrors with trades.

Oh I no I got a good deal. The 9-5 I was interested in had been sitting on the lot since January, it was June and they where motivated to move it. From mid 2007 through 2009 I was consulting at GM CHQ. You don't think I went back and looked at historic dealer cost data?