Topic: Theory on why the next Honda Civic will be a winner .

[MKII]

mk 11
hey buddy , you wrote it not me , dancing won't do you any good
 quote , catch the last line :

Next Civic in Canada will no doubt retain its popularity no matter of new style etc, but the new Elantra will most likely grab some of the Civic's current owners. IMO the new Elantra is what the next Civic could of been.

[Schmengie]

quote
IMO the new Elantra is what the NEXT Civic could of have been.

Sorry, but this is a pet peeve of mine. 

 Hyundai is definitely the company to watch. If Honda doesn't get it's act together soon, Hyundai will run right over them.

[CatsEye68]

quote
IMO the new Elantra is what the NEXT Civic could of have been.

Sorry, but this is a pet peeve of mine. 

 Hyundai is definitely the company to watch. If Honda doesn't get it's act together soon, Hyundai will run right over them.

Toyonda is now feeling the same effect they caused the US auto industry to feel 30 years ago. An upstart with cheap labor and the vigor of youth challenging the established leader. That is why you see them cutting costs, cheapening the product, and making their products less leading-edge, since they now have a low-cost competitor who has gotten its act together. In 20 years or so we will likely see Lord Hyundai challenged in the same way by an upstart from China or Malaysia. It is amazing what cheap, productive labor -- not just on the assembly line but also in the engineering studios -- can do for a car company.

[kicker]

Thats exactly right Catseye 68 , Hyundai is well aware of it right now re China . But if Hyundai still keeps stealing the best tech out there from everyone else , seeing how it works then putting it in their next gen cars , they won't have much of a problem . Because the chinese will have to do the same thing to catch up .

Both Toyota and Honda are resting on their reputations when they should be doing the same thing . They have lost sight of what made them great to begin with , by making the most reliable cars they can , like Hyundai is now doing .

Ford , GM , Chrysler are getting their act together . Besides U.S. are great for picking up the chips . Dusting themselves off and showing what made them great to begin with . If anyone can make a comeback , you can bet the U.S. jumps to the head of that class .
The U.S, can never be ruled out no matter how bad things can look .

[kicker]

 Maybe just spend a little more time on their cars instead of their jet .

http://www.leftlanenews.com/honda-takes-off-with-first-flight-of-faa-conforming-hondajet-video.html

[Honda Dollars!]

Maybe they will be a winner because Honda advertises on sites like these.  The so called objective reviews of the cars may not be so objective when $$$$ are at stake.

I'm sure the testers on this site will love any honda product....lol...they better, look who is paying the bills! 

[dirtyjeffer]

In 20 years or so we will likely see Lord Hyundai challenged in the same way by an upstart from China or Malaysia. It is amazing what cheap, productive labor -- not just on the assembly line but also in the engineering studios -- can do for a car company.

not true whatsoever.

Hyundai has invested Billions into North America (mainly the USA) with its design studios in California, Engineering in Michigan and plants in LaGrange GA (Kia and now Sante Fe) and Montgomery AL (Sonata and Elantra)...workers are well paid with benefits...what they don't have is "old thinking", bad habits and 4 times as many workers on pensions...they run a very tight ship and have been very forward thinking in their business decisions, especially over the last decade.

a colleague of mine used to work for Ford up until about 4 years ago...during business meetings, Ford always talked about Honda and Toyota, but the one they were truly watching was Hyundai...while Honda and Toyota had solid reputations and sales success, they knew Hyundai was really gaining ground, improving their product, and knew they had nothing to lose...look where 10 years has got them...practically EVERY vehicle they make is a recommended buy and their quality and ratings continue to shine.

[CatsEye68]

In 20 years or so we will likely see Lord Hyundai challenged in the same way by an upstart from China or Malaysia. It is amazing what cheap, productive labor -- not just on the assembly line but also in the engineering studios -- can do for a car company.

not true whatsoever.

Hyundai has invested Billions into North America (mainly the USA) with its design studios in California, Engineering in Michigan and plants in LaGrange GA (Kia and now Sante Fe) and Montgomery AL (Sonata and Elantra)...workers are well paid with benefits...what they don't have is "old thinking", bad habits and 4 times as many workers on pensions...they run a very tight ship and have been very forward thinking in their business decisions, especially over the last decade.

a colleague of mine used to work for Ford up until about 4 years ago...during business meetings, Ford always talked about Honda and Toyota, but the one they were truly watching was Hyundai...while Honda and Toyota had solid reputations and sales success, they knew Hyundai was really gaining ground, improving their product, and knew they had nothing to lose...look where 10 years has got them...practically EVERY vehicle they make is a recommended buy and their quality and ratings continue to shine.

As I always say when stuff like this gets posted... time will tell. It is very early days for Hyundai. People said the same about Honda in the 80s. All business tends to evolve like the movement of a wheel... first they go on the upswing for a while, but usually the downward slide happens eventually.

[Mitlov]

The Euro Civic looks better IMO...

Looks are subjective, but I prefer the North American one.





On the sporty end, I think the Si sedan is faaaaaaar more attractive than the UK Type R:





Objectively, I'd rather take the North American's multilink rear suspension over the UK's torsion beam.  There are a lot of situations where the UK car is better than the North American equivalent, but I think the Civic is the exception to this rule.

[rrocket]

On the sporty end, I think the Si sedan is faaaaaaar more attractive than the UK Type R:

Wow.  Shocker.

[Mitlov]

On the sporty end, I think the Si sedan is faaaaaaar more attractive than the UK Type R:

Wow.  Shocker.

If I thought the UK version was nicer looking, I'd say so.  It's not like I had a choice to buy either an Si or a Type R and I chose the Si over the Type R.  But to my eyes, the Type R is too tall and too short.  It looks to me like what a Fit Si would look like, if they made it.  I prefer lower and sleeker lines.

[rrocket]

I prefer the more "hatchy" look of the UK version.

[dirtyjeffer]

i think the Euro version looks like crap...too "toy" like...i too prefer the current Si look.

[Mitlov]

Both Toyota and Honda are resting on their reputations when they should be doing the same thing . They have lost sight of what made them great to begin with , by making the most reliable cars they can , like Hyundai is now doing .

Hyundai has surpassed Honda on the reliability front?  Since when?

The three brands that did the best in CR's latest reliability release are (in no particular order) Toyota, Honda, and Ford.  http://www.canadiandriver.com/forum/index.php/topic,72542.0.html

Don't get me wrong.  I wouldn't worry about a new Hyundai's reliability either.  They do pretty well in reliability tests nowadays, and the warranty is excellent.  But you suggested they were statistically more reliable than Honda nowadays, and that doesn't appear to be accurate.

[kicker]

Yes , you are right Mitlov . I was wrong .
I just recently became aware of Hyundai just being average for reliability .
 I thought they were above average .

I was really impressed with Hyundai's research shop - after reading how they test other cars longevity on parts comparing them to their own . If the competitions last longer they examine it to find out why . So I assumed they would be more reliable than just average .
As I said , I was wrong .
Hyundai is the company I am most interested in now because they have the jump on everyone in d.i. motors in their upcoming Veloster and Accent .
Mazda , I'm even more keen on , but have to wait longer for their d.i. motors to come out .
 
If Honda had not wasted all that money on making hybrids and spent it on d.i. motors instead , they would have beat Hyundai to the punch in my opinion ,which would have been sweet but they didn't .
 
Did you know that not one of Hondas vtec systems of the millions they have sold has ever broken down ?

Honda are master engineers . Chasing Toyota instead of doing what they do best , making engines was a wrong choice . Imagine how great Hondas d.i. motors would be today . If anyone can sqeeze out more ponies per liter , its Honda .

I highly doubt the next Civic will be d.i.  But being Honda , it will still be a great car .
I would never buy a Turbo Veloster until I tested the next Civics , but to be honest I won't buy until I have tested the Mazda d.i. offerings too . Let the best man win .

[Dante]

Hyundai is the company I am most interested in now because they have the jump on everyone in d.i. motors in their upcoming Veloster and Accent .

Hyundai does not have the jump on everyone. Assuming you are talking compact car (Civic like), Ford Focus will be the first in class to offer non-turbo DI; the new Elantra is not DI (yet).
If you are talking in general, there are a number of vehicles with DI engines and they've been around for years. Again, Ford will have quite a few DI turbos (EcoBoost) on regular vehicles (non-sport models) starting next year, in addition to the ones already on the market (Flex, Taurus).

[rrocket]

Hyundai is the company I am most interested in now because they have the jump on everyone in d.i. motors in their upcoming Veloster and Accent .

Hyundai does not have the jump on everyone. Assuming you are talking compact car (Civic like), Ford Focus will be the first in class to offer non-turbo DI; the new Elantra is not DI (yet).
If you are talking in general, there are a number of vehicles with DI engines and they've been around for years. Again, Ford will have quite a few DI turbos (EcoBoost) on regular vehicles (non-sport models) starting next year, in addition to the ones already on the market (Flex, Taurus).

Yup.  Audis has been around for a while and my Lexus has the unique D4S injection system which uses both DI and port injection.

[Mitlov]

Kicker,

But the new North-American-market Elantra doesn't have DI either, so I wouldn't fault Honda for "lagging behind Hyundai" if the new Civic isn't direct injected.  

As for the next-gen Accent, let's wait and see whether we get D.I. in this market.  Just because they're going to offer a DI engine in Europe doesn't mean we'll get one here, where people are willing to pay less for a B-segment car.

Overall, though, I can't emphasize enough that Honda was never about winning the stat wars (whether you're talking RSX Type S versus Neon SRT-4, first-gen TSX versus S40 T5, etc).  It's nothing new for a competitor to offer a product that beats up a Honda product on paper.  I don't doubt that the Elantra will beat the new Civic when it comes to stats, features-for-the-dollar, and warranty.  I suspect the Civic will beat the new Elantra when it comes to refinement, handling, and reliability.  Neither will be a bad choice; which will be the better choice depends on the shopper and their priorities.

[kicker]

The Elantra not being d.i. will certainly help Honda alot .The Honda's engine will be more refined and sweet sounding and be a much better handling car .
But the Veloster will be equally good handling . Can't wait till a Veloster / Civic comparo !
As far as I know North America is getting Hyundais d.i. motors in the Veloster and Accent and would be absolutely shocked if they didn't .
Mitsu/Chysler/ Hyundai pooled costs 4 years ago then created the Sonatas motors and the 1.6 d.i. motors . All 3 companies will use the same basic engines tweaked their own way .

[Mitlov]

The Elantra not being d.i. will certainly help Honda alot .The Honda's engine will be more refined and sweet sounding and be a much better handling car .
But the Veloster will be equally good handling . Can't wait till a Veloster / Civic comparo !
As far as I know North America is getting Hyundais d.i. motors in the Veloster and Accent and would be absolutely shocked if they didn't .
Mitsu/Chysler/ Hyundai pooled costs 4 years ago then created the Sonatas motors and the 1.6 d.i. motors . All 3 companies will use the same basic engines tweaked their own way .

Isn't the Veloster going to be more of a CR-Z competitor than a Civic competitor (or more precisely, what the CR-Z should have been all along)?  If Honda admits that the CR-Z has flopped outside of Japan and makes a proper CR-Z Si, then that versus the Veloster will be a shootout to enjoy.