Author Topic: CanadianDriver announces its Top Picks for 2011!  (Read 43585 times)

Offline Dante

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Re: CanadianDriver announces its Top Picks for 2011!
« Reply #120 on: December 30, 2010, 11:27:48 am »

A small car is something you have to drive until you can afford to get a real car. :)


Nothing against cars of all sizes, but your statement above is bold.

Offline Erik

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Re: CanadianDriver announces its Top Picks for 2011!
« Reply #121 on: December 30, 2010, 11:32:47 am »

A small car is something you have to drive until you can afford to get a real car. :)


Nothing against cars of all sizes, but your statement above is bold.

Yup. It sure is! :)
"The car is the closest thing we will ever create to something that is alive." - Sir William Lyons

Offline tpl

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Re: CanadianDriver announces its Top Picks for 2011!
« Reply #122 on: December 30, 2010, 11:36:53 am »

A small car is something you have to drive until you can afford to get a real car. :)


Nothing against cars of all sizes, but your statement above is bold.

Yup. It sure is! :)

To me it is not "big cars"   it is "Bigger than you need cars"   Ie. if you have a family or are 6' 6"" then a big car is it.
The most radical revolutionary will become a conservative the day after the revolution.

Offline wing

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Re: CanadianDriver announces its Top Picks for 2011!
« Reply #123 on: December 30, 2010, 11:49:58 am »
I challenge you to replace parts on your Mazda2 with parts from the Fiesta.  From what I have been told there are nearly ZERO interchangeable parts.  The chassis is the same and that is all.

Offline MKII

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Re: CanadianDriver announces its Top Picks for 2011!
« Reply #124 on: December 30, 2010, 12:00:10 pm »

No offense intended to anyone, but what exactly makes the writers of CanadianDriver a 'breath of fresh air'? Other than James who explains and defends his opinions in the forums, what's so special about every other writer on CanadianDriver?

Mostly because the format of the reviews are in general done by writers who use the test vehicle in a such a fashion as one would in their day to day driving.


Offline Dante

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Re: CanadianDriver announces its Top Picks for 2011!
« Reply #125 on: December 30, 2010, 12:07:37 pm »
Even in terms of chassis, Mazda2 and Fiesta share the basic design, but each company has its own specific tweaks. And indeed, the resemblance ends there. This is obvious for anyone who sat or drove both cars.

If Mazda2 and Fiesta are the same cars, what would one say about Tucson/Sportage or Sonata/Optima? I would even argue those are the same cars although they share much more than the basic platform design.

Offline Dante

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Re: CanadianDriver announces its Top Picks for 2011!
« Reply #126 on: December 30, 2010, 12:10:46 pm »

A small car is something you have to drive until you can afford to get a real car. :)


Nothing against cars of all sizes, but your statement above is bold.

Yup. It sure is! :)

So if I chose to drive a sub-compact or compact car because this is what I like, to you it means I cannot afford to buy a full-size? Wow!!!

Offline Shnak

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Re: CanadianDriver announces its Top Picks for 2011!
« Reply #127 on: December 30, 2010, 12:21:00 pm »

No offense intended to anyone, but what exactly makes the writers of CanadianDriver a 'breath of fresh air'? Other than James who explains and defends his opinions in the forums, what's so special about every other writer on CanadianDriver?

Mostly because the format of the reviews are in general done by writers who use the test vehicle in a such a fashion as one would in their day to day driving.

That mostly applies to James's reviews though... remove his contributions and you're left with a bunch of reviewers who mostly concentrate on the shiny things on the dash and the feature list.

Offline Erik

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Re: CanadianDriver announces its Top Picks for 2011!
« Reply #128 on: December 30, 2010, 12:35:52 pm »

A small car is something you have to drive until you can afford to get a real car. :)


Nothing against cars of all sizes, but your statement above is bold.

Yup. It sure is! :)

So if I chose to drive a sub-compact or compact car because this is what I like, to you it means I cannot afford to buy a full-size? Wow!!!

(sigh)
I figured that the various smileys would make it obvious that I did NOT mean that statement to be taken seriously.

Offline Sir Osis of Liver

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Re: CanadianDriver announces its Top Picks for 2011!
« Reply #129 on: December 30, 2010, 12:41:19 pm »
Wing,

Respect where respect is due, always, first before insulting someone's intelligence, know that I was in the auto industry for 8 years and I know how it works. As an auto enthusiast I have the chance to drive many vehicles and stop by showrooms to look at all cars.

Fusion was re-styled, yet remains an 8 year old Mazda 6 at heart. Nothing new here. On paper a Sonata hybrid blows the doors off the Fusion hybrid.

The Fiesta and Mazda 2 are the same car. Same shared DE platform, virtually identical wheelbase and track, same engine placement, similar pricing. OK different engines, packages and badge on the front - they have to be different somehow. As far as "aren't even close to the same car", who told you that? Mazda / Ford executives? Come on...

Taurus was re-styled. This is an old NA manufacturer ploy. It's still an 11 year old, previous generation, Volvo S80 platform underneath. Nothing new or exciting really unless you count the wrapping. Lots of cars to be had in it's price class, $50k for an SHO is a joke. For that there are so many other cars in the marketplace that are so much more than a Ford.

Drove a 2011 V8 Mustang lately for 3 days between and around Montreal / Quebec City. Typical jittery suspension, bad fit & finish, cheap monotone plastics, annoying hair trigger throttle (almost undriveable in traffic) and mushy frame that will go soft after 50,000 kms. So yes, I have driven one and many other cars lately!

All Ford car platforms are borrowed or co-engineered with other manufacturers because their corporate teams are too busy dealing with unions, advertising and lawyers rather than focusing on design and innovation. Technologies are purchased, raped or borrowed similarly. Ford will sell many of these cars to an uneducated public via cheezy advertising, interest rates and other similar ploys.


A new platform costs between $2B and $5B to develop. Do you really think that entirely new platforms are developed every 5 years by other manufacturers?

The only reason Mazda and Volvo are still around is because of Ford. Co-operation between subsidiaries makes good business sense. Mazda helped with the development of the CD3 platform and 4 cylinder engines. Ford developed the Escape/Tribute, Ranger/B-Series and V6s. The Mazda 3 is based on the Euro Focus platform as is the Volvo C30. Now if you compare the Consumer Reports reliability rating of cars based on the same platform, Ford is almost always the more reliable of the versions.

As far as the Taurus, where else are you going to get a full sized, AWD, 365hp car for this amount of money? The 300C/Charger R/T are your only alternatives. Since the styling and engineering changes, sales are running far higher, so it was money well spent.

I've driven the Mustang V6 back to back with the Genesis coupe and BMW 128i. It is more than competitive in interior build quality and chassis refinement. The 415hp GT is a performance bargain that nobody else can touch for the money. And it is a Ford developed platform (D2C).

The last paragraph is wharrgarbl. Engineering has nothing to do with labour relations. All companies purchase or license technologies from other companies. Lots of stuff found on German cars, for instance, was initially developed by Siemens, Bosch, ZF, etc then the auto companies get involved in integrating the technology into their cars. It's the nature of the business.

The car buying public at large don't care about any of this. They want a reliable car, that fits their needs, at a decent price. Most Fords are in the ballpark.

« Last Edit: December 30, 2010, 01:00:49 pm by Sir Osis of Liver »
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Offline TopGun

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Re: CanadianDriver announces its Top Picks for 2011!
« Reply #130 on: December 30, 2010, 01:00:29 pm »
Wing,

Respect where respect is due, always, first before insulting someone's intelligence, know that I was in the auto industry for 8 years and I know how it works. As an auto enthusiast I have the chance to drive many vehicles and stop by showrooms to look at all cars.
.....


Wow....so can I guess it wasn't your choice to leave...oh...say Ford after 8 years?   ;)

A couple of rebuttals:

  • Fusion/Mazda 6 - Development can take an "old" platform a long way.  Just ask Porsche.
  • Sonata Hybrid - On paper I should be making more money than I am now.  Irrelevant.  Sonata might be better than the Fusion hybrid...I haven't seen a back-to-back test.
  • Fiesta/Mazda 2 - The more I read the reviews, the more it seems that Mazda went much further to make this a really fun car to drive.  Ford went the way of styling and interior quality.
  • Taurus - IIRC, the new S60 is derived from that old platform, and is very well liked for its handling.  So again, development can take you a long way.  See Porsche again.
  • Ford bashing - A lot can happen in a short period of time.  See Hyundai/Kia.

Offline Sir Osis of Liver

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Re: CanadianDriver announces its Top Picks for 2011!
« Reply #131 on: December 30, 2010, 01:09:47 pm »

  • Taurus - IIRC, the new S60 is derived from that old platform, and is very well liked for its handling.  So again, development can take you a long way.  See Porsche again.


The Ford DEW platform was co-developed with Jaguar in 2000. It was used again for the 2008 Jaguar XF, and it certainly hasn't suffered for it!

Nissan used the FF-L platform since 2002, and has been rolling out the D platform since about 2009.

Nissan D:

Nissan Altima
Nissan Teana
Nissan Murano
Renault Laguna III
Nissan Maxima
Renault Samsung SM5
Renault Latitude
« Last Edit: December 30, 2010, 01:27:44 pm by Sir Osis of Liver »

Offline Shnak

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Re: CanadianDriver announces its Top Picks for 2011!
« Reply #132 on: December 30, 2010, 02:02:34 pm »
As far as the Taurus, where else are you going to get a full sized, AWD, 365hp car for this amount of money? The 300C/Charger R/T are your only alternatives. Since the styling and engineering changes, sales are running far higher, so it was money well spent.

That may change when the Genesis is available in AWD (coming soon, apparently), but until then, I agree that the Taurus is definitely the best full sized car availble in AWD for the money. I just wished that it could lose a few pounds, but that's another topic.

Offline Sir Osis of Liver

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Re: CanadianDriver announces its Top Picks for 2011!
« Reply #133 on: December 30, 2010, 02:27:05 pm »

That may change when the Genesis is available in AWD (coming soon, apparently), but until then, I agree that the Taurus is definitely the best full sized car availble in AWD for the money. I just wished that it could lose a few pounds, but that's another topic.


Yup. The Genesis is a very nice sedan, and is certainly competitive, depending on whether a person needs AWD or not.

I believe that all manufacturers will be looking closely at weight loss in their next models. It's going to be tough though with new roof crush standards as well as the new NHTSA star rating system.

Offline Jaeger

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Re: CanadianDriver announces its Top Picks for 2011!
« Reply #134 on: December 30, 2010, 03:12:37 pm »
Strike 1 for agreeing with Jaeger whom behaves & posts in such a manner as to create a false appearance of great importance or worth. (thank god for the ignore function)

I'm curious as to your opinion on shills.  :rofl:

Jaeger
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Re: CanadianDriver announces its Top Picks for 2011!
« Reply #135 on: December 30, 2010, 04:40:05 pm »
I don't get people around here saying "big car" as if it were a bad thing. There are a lot of us out there who think big cars are awesome. A small car is something you have to drive until you can afford to get a real car. :)

I would normally agree with you on this point, but recently I have been thinking about my next car. I love big cars for a lot of reasons, but I don't need a big car -- I don't have lots of people or stuff to haul around. With forecastrs about gas prices not being optimistic, I find myself thinking of things like a Cruze or a Verano or a Golf or a Focus or maybe even a Volt. The idea of a well-finished, quiet and refined small car -- one that isn't a penalty box like so many have been until now -- is no longer so foreign to me.

Offline crwpitman

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Re: CanadianDriver announces its Top Picks for 2011!
« Reply #136 on: December 31, 2010, 12:34:39 pm »
Fusion was recently updated,

Mazda2 / Fiesta aren't even close to being the same car.

Taurus was redesigned recently.

Mustang?  How can anyone complain about this miracle of awesomeness.

There is no conspiracy towards Ford except that they are building amazing cars lately that offer great value.  Have you driven a Ford ... lately?

P.S.  5 years ago Ford was on my UGH list, now I'd consider buying many of their vehicles.  Personally I could see myself purchasing, Fusion (hybrid probably), Fiesta, Mustang, F150.



Here, here.  And their cars are all attractive and fresh - I don't think they're one car in the lineup that I don't like the looks of.  They've turned themselves around to the point I would consider purchasing American again.

I personally don't get all of this Fit banter...  Sure it's not a bad car, and they tended to favour the Mazda2 and Fiesta.  Big deal?  Just because Motor Trend and Car & Driver didn't choose it first place in a comparo doesn't mean it's crap...  And I hardly think "dead last" in a 3 car comparo should mean the car should be automatically shunned, or that being last in necessarily a bad thing.  Something to remember - why didn't the big US print magazine include the Versa, the Accent/Rio, the Yaris, the SX4, the Aveo, et cetera in their comparos?  Possibly because they don't compare to a new high water mark for subcompacts set by the aforementioned three.  I personally applaud the new levels of refinement and desirability the Fiesta and the Mazda2 (and the Fit) are bringing to a segment that's long been ignored in North America (especially in the US).

Offline Jaeger

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Re: CanadianDriver announces its Top Picks for 2011!
« Reply #137 on: December 31, 2010, 01:06:38 pm »
I personally don't get all of this Fit banter...  Sure it's not a bad car, and they tended to favour the Mazda2 and Fiesta.  Big deal?  Just because Motor Trend and Car & Driver didn't choose it first place in a comparo doesn't mean it's crap... 

Who said the Fiesta was crap?  I must have missed that.  Here's what I said:

Again, the Fit, 2 and Fiesta are all very good subcompacts offering a slightly different mix of virtues which might justify the preference of one over the others by any individual purchaser. 

Describing the Fiesta as crap would be a pretty ignorant statement indeed - bit I don't remember that happening.

Jaeger

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Re: CanadianDriver announces its Top Picks for 2011!
« Reply #138 on: December 31, 2010, 02:53:03 pm »
I personally don't get all of this Fit banter...  Sure it's not a bad car, and they tended to favour the Mazda2 and Fiesta.  Big deal?  Just because Motor Trend and Car & Driver didn't choose it first place in a comparo doesn't mean it's crap... 

Who said the Fiesta was crap?  I must have missed that.  Here's what I said:

Again, the Fit, 2 and Fiesta are all very good subcompacts offering a slightly different mix of virtues which might justify the preference of one over the others by any individual purchaser. 

Describing the Fiesta as crap would be a pretty ignorant statement indeed - bit I don't remember that happening.

Jaeger


All I'm saying is that the Fiesta and Mazda aren't unwarranted for being on the list.  Nor did I say that you said the Fiesta was crap - there are other people on the board.   Maybe you didn't notice but other people were posting similar things about how they aren't justified to be in the list, or that other cars should have been there in their place.

However you did post this:

Quote
The Honda Fit didn't make the cut with Canadian Driver, but did with Car and Driver - where the game-changing, class-redefining Fiesta finished dead last.

It's kind of at odds with your previous quote, and I did use that statement in my reply.  I'm not trying to put words in your mouth - but also realize that you seem to be flipflopping before you start trying to make a big deal out of something.

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Re: CanadianDriver announces its Top Picks for 2011!
« Reply #139 on: December 31, 2010, 03:07:32 pm »
Even in terms of chassis, Mazda2 and Fiesta share the basic design, but each company has its own specific tweaks. And indeed, the resemblance ends there. This is obvious for anyone who sat or drove both cars.

If Mazda2 and Fiesta are the same cars, what would one say about Tucson/Sportage or Sonata/Optima? I would even argue those are the same cars although they share much more than the basic platform design.
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