Topic: Honda Civic only nets two stars on revamped NHTSA side impact test

[Shnak]

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/12/16/honda-civic-only-nets-two-stars-on-revamped-nhtsa-side-impact-te/

Ouch! Some vehicles are faring horribly in these new tests! Just goes to show how car makers cater to these tests to get good scores, and when the tests change without notification, some get left behind more than others.

[Mike]

Yeah, that isn't great.  Same score in side impact as the Mazda 3 and Toyota Camry.  Although the Mazda gets a special exclamation of "solid two gold stars" 

At least the civic is a 3 star overall car unlike the Versa which dropped to two stars 

[footlong58]

Not surprised.  The NHTSA set a goal, all the manufacturers targeted that goal...

Now that the goal has been moved, the existing target is met, but not the new one.  They will all target this new goal now, and will all meet it in time.  People are easily impressed, when a sticker on the car shows a bunch of gold meaningless stars, and in reality they have no clue what they actually mean.

It's kind of a joke really...

[Shnak]

Not surprised.  The NHTSA set a goal, all the manufacturers targeted that goal...

Now that the goal has been moved, the existing target is met, but not the new one.  They will all target this new goal now, and will all meet it in time.  People are easily impressed, when a sticker on the car shows a bunch of gold meaningless stars, and in reality they have no clue what they actually mean.

It's kind of a joke really...

Well, some cars appear to exceed the previous targets... the 5-series and new Sonata, namely. For car companies claiming to be serious about safety, I'd expect the big companies such as Honda and Toyota to exceed whatever safety targets are set by NHTSA, wouldn't you?

[Erik]

And likely they will. Honda is still using a previous gen, 5 year old design. Hyundai has a brand new one. I expect when all the new car designs roll out that they will all does as well.

[Dante]

I bet older Sonata wouldn't score much better than the Civic. They've been designed/introduced around the same time.
Even the new Sonata was at 4 star first and luckily Hyundai had time to make changes to score 5 stars.

I would expect most of new cars to get 5 stars since the manufacturers will design them as such.

[Mike]

I bet older Sonata wouldn't score much better than the Civic. They've been designed/introduced around the same time.
Even the new Sonata was at 4 star first and luckily Hyundai had time to make changes to score 5 stars.

I would expect most of new cars to get 5 stars since the manufacturers will design them as such.

Yeah, and they changed it again and are submitting a 3rd version

[Mike]

Not surprised.  The NHTSA set a goal, all the manufacturers targeted that goal...

Now that the goal has been moved, the existing target is met, but not the new one.  They will all target this new goal now, and will all meet it in time.  People are easily impressed, when a sticker on the car shows a bunch of gold meaningless stars, and in reality they have no clue what they actually mean.

It's kind of a joke really...

Well, some cars appear to exceed the previous targets... the 5-series and new Sonata, namely. For car companies claiming to be serious about safety, I'd expect the big companies such as Honda and Toyota to exceed whatever safety targets are set by NHTSA, wouldn't you?

Yeah, I noticed quite a few manufacturers have 5 star on the side impact.  Mostly newer designs.

[Shnak]

I bet older Sonata wouldn't score much better than the Civic. They've been designed/introduced around the same time.
Even the new Sonata was at 4 star first and luckily Hyundai had time to make changes to score 5 stars.

I would expect most of new cars to get 5 stars since the manufacturers will design them as such.

Yeah, and they changed it again and are submitting a 3rd version

Uh?

[Dante]

I bet older Sonata wouldn't score much better than the Civic. They've been designed/introduced around the same time.
Even the new Sonata was at 4 star first and luckily Hyundai had time to make changes to score 5 stars.

I would expect most of new cars to get 5 stars since the manufacturers will design them as such.

Yeah, and they changed it again and are submitting a 3rd version

Uh?

Yep. Correct.

[Mike]

I bet older Sonata wouldn't score much better than the Civic. They've been designed/introduced around the same time.
Even the new Sonata was at 4 star first and luckily Hyundai had time to make changes to score 5 stars.

I would expect most of new cars to get 5 stars since the manufacturers will design them as such.

Yeah, and they changed it again and are submitting a 3rd version

Uh?

http://www.safercar.gov/staticfiles/ncap-2011/2011_Hyundai_Sonata_Early_Release.htm
http://www.safercar.gov/staticfiles/ncap-2011/2011_Hyundai_Sonata_Later_Release.htm
http://www.safercar.gov/staticfiles/ncap-2011/2011_Hyundai_Sonata_Latest_Release.htm

It appears they keep working on the front end trying to achieve the full 5 star rating to impess potential buyer I would assume?

[Dante]

I just noticed that Fiesta received 5 GOLD starts for side impact whatever that means, but I think it is in a good way.

[Mitlov]

Yeah, if the NHTSA "changed the tests without notification," manufacturers wouldn't have been able to revise models to do better on the tests.  The Civic is about to be replaced, so of course Honda wouldn't re-do it just for the last couple months of production.

My 2011 Si is an IIHS top safety pick (I prefer the IIHS over the NHTSA anyway, because of their more thorough methodology and their direct financial self-interest in ensuring that as many people as possible are driving the safest cars possible) and scored between 4 and 5 stars (depending on the angle) under the old NHTSA test.  I'm not losing sleep about driving it.

[Shnak]

I bet older Sonata wouldn't score much better than the Civic. They've been designed/introduced around the same time.
Even the new Sonata was at 4 star first and luckily Hyundai had time to make changes to score 5 stars.

I would expect most of new cars to get 5 stars since the manufacturers will design them as such.

Yeah, and they changed it again and are submitting a 3rd version

Uh?

http://www.safercar.gov/staticfiles/ncap-2011/2011_Hyundai_Sonata_Early_Release.htm
http://www.safercar.gov/staticfiles/ncap-2011/2011_Hyundai_Sonata_Later_Release.htm
http://www.safercar.gov/staticfiles/ncap-2011/2011_Hyundai_Sonata_Latest_Release.htm

It appears they keep working on the front end trying to achieve the full 5 star rating to impess potential buyer I would assume?

Oh ok, I wasn't aware of the 3rd attempt. I knew they had quickly submitted a revised Sonata after the 1st try to get 5 star side impact rating, but didn't know about the 3rd attempt.

[gta_driver]

Doesn't suprise me.

In the last 12 months. I've come across two accident scenes.

The first one involved a stolen early 90's minivan which t-boned a current generation Honda Civic on the driver's side. Both the driver and passenger(sitting on the driver's side) died as a result of that injury.

The scond involved a current generation Acura CSX which was t-boned on the passenger side by either a Pontiac Grand Prix or G6. The passenger died. The driver was seriously injured.

In both cases, I couldn't get over how much damage was inflicted, even with the side airbags deploying. The front clip of the vehicle t-boning the Civic/CSX was literally in the vehicle.

[safristi]

..I got a GOLD STAR once in kitty-garten...impacted me fer LIFE......... ....

[Mitlov]

Doesn't suprise me.

In the last 12 months. I've come across two accident scenes.

The first one involved a stolen early 90's minivan which t-boned a current generation Honda Civic on the driver's side. Both the driver and passenger(sitting on the driver's side) died as a result of that injury.

The scond involved a current generation Acura CSX which was t-boned on the passenger side by either a Pontiac Grand Prix or G6. The passenger died. The driver was seriously injured.

In both cases, I couldn't get over how much damage was inflicted, even with the side airbags deploying. The front clip of the vehicle t-boning the Civic/CSX was literally in the vehicle.

Any idea of the speeds involved in these accidents?

[mmret]

Doesn't suprise me.

In the last 12 months. I've come across two accident scenes.

The first one involved a stolen early 90's minivan which t-boned a current generation Honda Civic on the driver's side. Both the driver and passenger(sitting on the driver's side) died as a result of that injury.

The scond involved a current generation Acura CSX which was t-boned on the passenger side by either a Pontiac Grand Prix or G6. The passenger died. The driver was seriously injured.

In both cases, I couldn't get over how much damage was inflicted, even with the side airbags deploying. The front clip of the vehicle t-boning the Civic/CSX was literally in the vehicle.

Any idea of the speeds involved in these accidents?

Side impact is brutal. There's almost no metal and no space to disperse the energy. Unless we make all cars into giant spheres there's no good solution.

Its much better to slam into someone head on at 60km/h (total, and ideally evenly split) than to have someone slam into you at 45km/h from the side.

[The Mighty Duck]

I'm not losing sleep about driving it.

This is key. The car is no less safe today than it was last week. The testing methodology has just changed. No doubt the next Civic will conform to the new methodology...

[Mitlov]

Doesn't suprise me.

In the last 12 months. I've come across two accident scenes.

The first one involved a stolen early 90's minivan which t-boned a current generation Honda Civic on the driver's side. Both the driver and passenger(sitting on the driver's side) died as a result of that injury.

The scond involved a current generation Acura CSX which was t-boned on the passenger side by either a Pontiac Grand Prix or G6. The passenger died. The driver was seriously injured.

In both cases, I couldn't get over how much damage was inflicted, even with the side airbags deploying. The front clip of the vehicle t-boning the Civic/CSX was literally in the vehicle.

Any idea of the speeds involved in these accidents?

Side impact is brutal. There's almost no metal and no space to disperse the energy. Unless we make all cars into giant spheres there's no good solution.

Its much better to slam into someone head on at 60km/h (total, and ideally evenly split) than to have someone slam into you at 45km/h from the side.

That was my thought.  It's one thing to survive a side impact at normal intersection speeds (25-35 mph).  But if the stolen minivan was involved in a chase, with speeds of 60 mph or higher, I doubt there's a compact car on the planet where the passengers could have walked away from being T-boned.

I'm just not willing to write off the current-gen Civic as a deathtrap because of two anecdotal fatalities with no information about the severity of the crashes.