Topic: Test Drive: 2011 Infiniti G25x

[Jaeger]

Like I said, I wasn't optimisitic.

Jaeger

[CanuckS2K]

Speaking of which - Shnak - how exactly did someone who holds brand perception as not merely everything, but the only thing, ever end up buying a Hyundai?  Don't you know it "can't compete" with Honda an Toyota?  After all, the public views those two with better brand perception.  Why does Hyundai need to price their cars less than Honda and Toyota if they are as good?  Obviously, even Hyundai execs agree they're not as good, right? 

Where have I said that perception was the only thing? Never, that's where.

Yep, Hyundai is battling the exact same perception problem as Infiniti is, perception. The difference is that the perception is quickly changing for Hyundai, and their prices are increasing at the same rate. You won't find a huge difference in selling price between an Accord or Camry and a Sonata nowadays, certainly no where as near as the difference (in %) between a 335 and a G37. With every new model that comes out, Hyundai impresses everyone and inches towards the very top of its competitors, and they're getting very close. Infiniti, well, they're still very short of the leaders in their segments, so they have to cut prices to have a few models sell decently. You could say Infiniti is where Hyundai was 10 years ago, in their respective segments.

Again, absolutely incorrect.  Please tell me exactly how Infinti, lets say the G37, is very short of the leaders in this segment like you say?  I think most of us can agree that the leader in this segment is typically the 335i, correct?  I recall a number of comparos that have placed the G in front of the 335i.  I've driven the 335i and it's a fantastic car.  Awesome driving dynamics, and a great interior, although a little too spartan for my taste.  But to say the G comes very short of the 335i is just ludicrous.  For someone that has never driven a G and hasn't sat in one for 7 years, how can you realistically claim that the G fails very short of it's competitors? 

[Shnak]

Speaking of which - Shnak - how exactly did someone who holds brand perception as not merely everything, but the only thing, ever end up buying a Hyundai?  Don't you know it "can't compete" with Honda an Toyota?  After all, the public views those two with better brand perception.  Why does Hyundai need to price their cars less than Honda and Toyota if they are as good?  Obviously, even Hyundai execs agree they're not as good, right? 

Where have I said that perception was the only thing? Never, that's where.

Yep, Hyundai is battling the exact same perception problem as Infiniti is, perception. The difference is that the perception is quickly changing for Hyundai, and their prices are increasing at the same rate. You won't find a huge difference in selling price between an Accord or Camry and a Sonata nowadays, certainly no where as near as the difference (in %) between a 335 and a G37. With every new model that comes out, Hyundai impresses everyone and inches towards the very top of its competitors, and they're getting very close. Infiniti, well, they're still very short of the leaders in their segments, so they have to cut prices to have a few models sell decently. You could say Infiniti is where Hyundai was 10 years ago, in their respective segments.

Again, absolutely incorrect.  Please tell me exactly how Infinti, lets say the G37, is very short of the leaders in this segment like you say?  I think most of us can agree that the leader in this segment is typically the 335i, correct?  I recall a number of comparos that have placed the G in front of the 335i.  I've driven the 335i and it's a fantastic car.  Awesome driving dynamics, and a great interior, although a little too spartan for my taste.  But to say the G comes very short of the 335i is just ludicrous.  For someone that has never driven a G and hasn't sat in one for 7 years, how can you realistically claim that the G fails very short of it's competitors? 

You do realize that I'm talking about market perception, right? The Infiniti's aren't regarded as highly as BMW's are, and sales numbers show this, despite the fact that Infiniti's are much better values because of their lower prices. I'm talking about brand perception.

[Shnak]

Like I said, I wasn't optimisitic.

You're not very consistent either. If you stopped flip-flopping from one post to the next, maybe I'd understand you better. Just a thought.

[Jaeger]

Like I said, I wasn't optimisitic.

You're not very consistent either. If you stopped flip-flopping from one post to the next, maybe I'd understand you better. Just a thought.

It's a thought, but not a particulary bright one.  Your confusion is based in your fundamental lack of comprehension, not in any flip-flopping on my part.  If you can't understand the difference between a fact and an inference drawn from a fact, your confusion will persist.  Which is looking like pretty much of a lock in terms of a forecast.

I'll try one last time though.  First, I didn't say "I never inferred anything".  What I said was:

1) You have only engaged the discussion of the comparative merits of thes cars on the basis of public perception.  That's not an inference, that's a fact.  Got it so far?  Okay...

2) The inference which I draw from that fact is that, for you, public perception is the only factor that matters.  That's not a fact, that's an inference.  And a very compelling one.

Tha's not "flip-floppoing" - that an explanation of the factual basis for the inference I have drawn.

You're probably just as hopelessly lost as before, but that's all I'm willing to do to help you find your way.

Jaeger

[Jaeger]

Again, absolutely incorrect.  Please tell me exactly how Infinti, lets say the G37, is very short of the leaders in this segment like you say?  I think most of us can agree that the leader in this segment is typically the 335i, correct?  I recall a number of comparos that have placed the G in front of the 335i.  I've driven the 335i and it's a fantastic car.  Awesome driving dynamics, and a great interior, although a little too spartan for my taste.  But to say the G comes very short of the 335i is just ludicrous.  For someone that has never driven a G and hasn't sat in one for 7 years, how can you realistically claim that the G fails very short of it's competitors? 

There is nothing remotely realistic about Shnak's claims.  They are grounded neither in logic nor fact.  It's jus a repeated rant about HIS perception of the general public perception of the brands - not the individual cars themselves, in respect of which he apparently has no current experience whatsoever. 

Jaeger

[Shnak]

Like I said, I wasn't optimisitic.

You're not very consistent either. If you stopped flip-flopping from one post to the next, maybe I'd understand you better. Just a thought.

It's a thought, but not a particulary bright one.  Your confusion is based in your fundamental lack of comprehension, not in any flip-flopping on my part.  If you can't understand the difference between a fact and an inference drawn from a fact, your confusion will persist.  Which is looking like pretty much of a lock in terms of a forecast.

I'll try one last time though.  First, I didn't say "I never inferred anything".  What I said was:

1) You have only engaged the discussion of the comparative merits of thes cars on the basis of public perception.  That's not an inference, that's a fact.  Got it so far?  Okay...

2) The inference which I draw from that fact is that, for you, public perception is the only factor that matters.  That's not a fact, that's an inference.  And a very compelling one.

Tha's not "flip-floppoing" - that an explanation of the factual basis for the inference I have drawn.

You're probably just as hopelessly lost as before, but that's all I'm willing to do to help you find your way.

....so the only inference to be drawn is that you do in fact consider it to be the only thing...

...That you have been endlessly pounding the perception drum is not an inference - it is a fact...

How is that not flip-flopping? Pretty sure that's the very definition of flip-flopping.

[Jaeger]

How is that not flip-flopping? Pretty sure that's the very definition of flip-flopping.

I'm sorry, but I am unable to pierce through the wall of ignorance that stands between you and comprehension of the answer to that question.  And as I said, I am done trying.

Jaeger

[lebowski]

At the risk of sounding like a crazy person, I think the 'brand perception' angle may have been sufficiently covered. Really, we get it. Some people think Infiniti is fancy enough, some people do not. Awesome. Moving on...

Here's something I always found interesting: The Lexus and Infiniti AWD sport sedans have never come with manual transmissions, whereas equivalent German sports sedans have manuals as an option. Granted, manual-equipped cars account for a small fraction of overall sales, but it would seem die-hard enthusiasts would find the lack of a manual as a deal breaker. It would be for me, at least.

[Shnak]

How is that not flip-flopping? Pretty sure that's the very definition of flip-flopping.

I'm sorry, but I am unable to pierce through the wall of ignorance that stands between you and comprehension of the answer to that question.  And as I said, I am done trying.

Jaeger

Well then, looks like I was successful in something, making you stop posting in this thread. Hoouray!

Btw, I hear someone's liking the Regal over in that other thread... go get him!

[Jaeger]

Well then, looks like I was successful in something, making you stop posting in this thread. Hoouray!

Stop posting? Nope.  Stop trying to make up for your deficient education?  Yup.

At the risk of sounding like a crazy person, I think the 'brand perception' angle may have been sufficiently covered.

Ya think??

Jaeger