Topic: Push for snow tire rebate

[overtakeyouintheleftlane]

http://www.680news.com/news/local/article/157590--safety-group-to-push-for-snow-tire-rebate

Apparently a group wants the government to give a tax rebate to those who buy winter tires. The government said it's not going to happen.

Personally, I use 4 winter tires and believe they are worth every penny and should be mandatory in Ontario as they are proven to be safer. I believe most people on this forum use them as well.

While it sounds like a good idea to get a tax rebate, who do you think will be paying for the rebate? Everybody! It's your responsibility to make sure your car is safe to drive in winter.

I'm sorry, but if you drive a car, you can afford the winter tires. If you can't afford it, then don't drive.

What really boggles my mind is how I saw a BMW (very new one) yesterday spinning his tires trying to move at the coffee shop, he had only summer tires on (I looked at his tires after he gave up).. how can you afford to drive a car like that and not have winter tires? I told him to buy a set of winter tires and that will solve his traction problem.

[dkaz]

I don't think there should be a tax rebate on tires either, even though I think everyone should have it and it should even be mandated by every province.

[vdk]

That safety group should go to school...

Insurance companies should give discounts to those who use winter tires, not the government. There is no reason for the government to give a tax rebate to those who choose to buy winter tires, there is nothing in it for them - in case of a serious accident hospital bills will get paid by the insurance company not the government. So why would they?

I know some insurance companies give discounts. They all should.

[overtakeyouintheleftlane]

Desjardins, The Personal and Belair Direct give 5% discount which I also get from The Personal.

[5 Wheel Drive]

I don't there there shoule be a tax rebate either.  It opens the door to other groups looking for tax rebates on this that and the other thing.  I get a 5% disount on my insurance.

I do think they should be mandatory.  Same thing happened to me yesterday.  I got stuck behind a lady driving a Lexus ES going 30km/h, with no snow tires.  She happily spent over $40k on an overpriced Camry, but couldn't be bothered to spend an extra few hundred dollars on snow tires.   

[overtakeyouintheleftlane]

"I got stuck behind a lady driving a Lexus ES going 30km/h, with no snow tires.  She happily spent over $40k on an overpriced Camry, but couldn't be bothered to spend an extra few hundred dollars on snow tires."

Solution - Buy a cheaper car (Camry) and now you can afford quite a few sets of winter tires with rims.

FYI - Why winter tires should be mandatory, a Laval university study confirms since Quebec has mandated winter tires, collisions have been reduced by 18%. That's huge.

[aaronk]

Some places don't get a lot of snow, and even if it's cold and you have all-seasons you can drive accordingly - i.e. 'slower'. I would say 95% of the instances of collisions are caused not by people having the wrong tires but by people not knowing how to handle the tires they have on their cars. I have driven over a decade through northern Ontario winters on all-season tires in a variety of FWD cars and have never had a problem, yet I have seen many cars in ditches or accidents that were equipped with snow tires and/or AWD. So if the tires aren't the problem, it must be the driver.

The last thing we need in a time when many families are struggling with finances is to 'mandate' that every single parent, out-of-work manufacturing sector worker or minimum wage student go out and buy a set of $1000 tires/rims. How about we just slow down and drive smarter? Man, you guys love to me 'mandated' what to do don't you? I currently have snow tires on my car, that was my choice, other people should be allowed to make the same for themselves.

[quadzilla]

No matter how much some things change, others just stay the same.

I really don't think it is always about the cost of the tires, some people feel they DO NOT need them. If you never get in an accident, why bother? So what they drive slow, get stuck and need a push one a month, they still got home. In their eyes, they don't want to spend the extra money.

Personally, I can't understand how people can cheap out on any tire they buy, summer or winter. Tires cost less than cable TV (currently around $600/year for basic cable) but when it comes to buying tires that would cost you about $200/year ($800 over 4 years) people think it is a lot of money.

As to the rebate, no way. I'm sick of giving rebates for luxury items.

[quadzilla]

The last thing we need in a time when many families are struggling with finances is to 'mandate' that every single parent, out-of-work manufacturing sector worker or minimum wage student go out and buy a set of $1000 tires/rims. How about we just slow down and drive smarter? Man, you guys love to me 'mandated' what to do don't you? I currently have snow tires on my car, that was my choice, other people should be allowed to make the same for themselves.

to 'mandate' that every single parent, out-of-work manufacturing sector worker or minimum wage student go out and buy a set of $1000 tires/rims.

Actually it would be for everybody not just those people   Besides, you don't need to spend $1000 on tire/rims, there are choices. But I'm always shocked that these people can afford to put gas in their car, pay for insurance and buy a flat panel TV.

[tpl]

No tax rebate...no way.   I too get the 5% from The Personal and I'd buy them without that.

They should be mandatory fitment in Ontario even in the deep south(!) although I guess those people on HWY 402 may not have been helped much.  The problem is: how do you persuade people living on the financial edge to spend $500 up on a set of tires and maybe wheels and, if they live in an apartment, pay to store them.  I suggest that you'd get a lot of people driving all year on winter tires with all the high temperature failures that would entail.

We have had this discussion before.. last winter?


@aaronk.    If the "all seasons" kept their grip down to say -1 rather than +7 then for Toronto All seasons would work well enough most years...but they don't

[aaronk]

The last thing we need in a time when many families are struggling with finances is to 'mandate' that every single parent, out-of-work manufacturing sector worker or minimum wage student go out and buy a set of $1000 tires/rims. How about we just slow down and drive smarter? Man, you guys love to me 'mandated' what to do don't you? I currently have snow tires on my car, that was my choice, other people should be allowed to make the same for themselves.

to 'mandate' that every single parent, out-of-work manufacturing sector worker or minimum wage student go out and buy a set of $1000 tires/rims.

Actually it would be for everybody not just those people   Besides, you don't need to spend $1000 on tire/rims, there are choices. But I'm always shocked that these people can afford to put gas in their car, pay for insurance and buy a flat panel TV.

You have a point - if people are buying a 7-series and a new 65" plasma but skipping the tires there might be a problem. My point is that 'mandatory' affects a lot of income brackets, and not everyone is evaluating TV's versus tires. Frankly there are a lot of cars with more problematic deficiencies than the wrong tires - i.e. lights that don't work, rusting internals, etc.

[overtakeyouintheleftlane]

aaronk - I don't agree. They should be mandated as you can't dispute the safety that winter tires provide vs. all-season tires. They can't afford it, too bad.

The punishment should be seizure of the vehicle and how about a $500 fine and 6 demerit points? That would scare people into buying them.   Or do what Germany does, if you have a collision and you don't have winter tires on during winter you are automatically at fault.

[aaronk]

No tax rebate...no way.   I too get the 5% from The Personal and I'd buy them without that.
...
@aaronk.    If the "all seasons" kept their grip down to say -1 rather than +7 then for Toronto All seasons would work well enough most years...but they don't

As I said, I've never had a problem with controlling my car in previous years on all-seasons, but I consider myself an intelligent driver. In cold weather I approach lights and stop signs slowly, I leave lots of time when pulling out, and get a head-start and stay on the gas if I'm up a hill. I still maintain the ones getting into accidents are the ones that brake late, don't pay attention and/or are generally scared to drive in the winter.

Maybe there is common ground here. I saw an ad the other day for the new Nokian WRG2 'real all-season' tire. As technology gets better, so do the tires - something like this (http://www.nokiantires.com/tyre?id=11899&group=1.01&name=Nokian+WRG2) might be a compromise for those who don't want 2 sets of tires but still don't want to end up in a ditch with summer-only slicks when the snow hits.

[tpl]

aaronk - I don't agree. They should be mandated as you can't dispute the safety that winter tires provide vs. all-season tires. They can't afford it, too bad.

The punishment should be seizure of the vehicle and how about a $500 fine and 6 demerit points? That would scare people into buying them.   Or do what Germany does, if you have a collision and you don't have winter tires on during winter you are automatically at fault.

The automatically at fault has some merit.  The gove would have to decide the dates of "winter" for this to work and IMHO the police would have to be told to use discretion about adding this charge to the docket. Why?  Because in TO for example ( and Guelph as well) you can get all the way through December with no snow or ice even if the rest of Ontario is a foot deep and it would be unfair to add this charge when the roads were dry and the temp was above, say, 10 degrees.

[dougjp]

I hate nannies like McSquinty. I hope, for a change, he doesn't give in to these brethren nannies, and ignores them like he ignores taxpayers. What's needed instead is elimination of hundreds upon hundreds of laws, including anything McSquinty created, so that people have a hope in h@ll of remembering what's left. Cut the umbilical cord to grown adults, and thereby force them to think and act on their own, they will probably do better. And if they don't, well that's life.     

[vdk]

aaronk - I don't agree. They should be mandated as you can't dispute the safety that winter tires provide vs. all-season tires. They can't afford it, too bad.

No they shouldn't. The insurance companies should provide a (larger) incentive for drivers to purchase winters.

That will solve it. It is a win-win situation: drivers are safer on the road (there's also the premium discount), and insurance claims drop.

[bridgecity]

They should be mandated as you can't dispute the safety that winter tires provide vs. all-season tires. They can't afford it, too bad.

Don't you have any compassion?  What about a single mother that scrapes by and drives a '94 Cavalier thats worth 2 cents.  You think her vehicle should be seized and she should be fined $500?

I definitely wouldn't have any qualms about a mandatory snow tire law.  But there are  people out there who cannot afford it, whether you choose to believe it or not.

Maybe the first step should be ensuring people at least have minimal tread on any tires they drive on.  Very difficult to enforce.

[dash]

Due to recent storms, I'm severely frustrated with drivers who can’t accelerate at a reasonable pace and/or  some drivers have ‘adjusted’ their speed to slow because they are not using the proper tires.  We have enough traffic problems here, it is unfair for many of us to sit behind an idiot train of cars because the leading car is going so slow as they are ill-prepared to drive in winter conditions.

Forgive my venting  

[quadzilla]

No they shouldn't. The insurance companies should provide a (larger) incentive for drivers to purchase winters.

That will solve it. It is a win-win situation: drivers are safer on the road (there's also the premium discount), and insurance claims drop.

A 5% discount on a $1000/yr policy is $50....Would that be enough to get people to buy winter tires?

I'll do it no matter what but I'm wondering what $$$ value savings other people would put on it?

[tpl]

They should be mandated as you can't dispute the safety that winter tires provide vs. all-season tires. They can't afford it, too bad.

Don't you have any compassion?  What about a single mother that scrapes by and drives a '94 Cavalier that's worth 2 cents.  You think her vehicle should be seized and she should be fined $500?

<snip>

This is the same strawman argument used against an annual proper safety check.  Why should someone be allowed to drive a car unsafe for the conditions and therefore unsafe for everyone else on the road just because they are poor.


Now if DougJP's suggestion was followed, some of the poor people might be able to afford winter tires.