Quote from: Mitlov on December 08, 2010, 03:19:16 pmQuote from: vdk on December 08, 2010, 03:10:19 pmQuote from: Mitlov on December 08, 2010, 03:05:44 pmQuote from: vdk on December 08, 2010, 03:01:00 pmThe VW TDI should've been replaced by BMW's diesel engine. It's a much better engine.It should be, considering it's in cars that cost twice as much.Yes, but these 'wards are based solely on engine performance. Then why is the Cooper S engine there? Compared to an N55, or the S4's mill, it's not exactly the bee's knees.Whether they openly state it or not, performance-for-the-dollar must be some part of their analysis.As mentioned:Engines must be available in regular-production vehicles on sale in the U.S. market no later than the first quarter of the year. To be eligible, the engine also must be available in a vehicle with a base price of no more than $54,000 (for 2007 list). During a 2-month testing period, Ward's editors evaluate each engine according to a number of objective and subjective criteria in everyday driving situations – there is no instrumented testing. The selection takes into account power and torque output, noise, vibration and harshness (NVH) levels, technical relevance, and basic comparative numbers. Each engine competes against all others.
Quote from: vdk on December 08, 2010, 03:10:19 pmQuote from: Mitlov on December 08, 2010, 03:05:44 pmQuote from: vdk on December 08, 2010, 03:01:00 pmThe VW TDI should've been replaced by BMW's diesel engine. It's a much better engine.It should be, considering it's in cars that cost twice as much.Yes, but these 'wards are based solely on engine performance. Then why is the Cooper S engine there? Compared to an N55, or the S4's mill, it's not exactly the bee's knees.Whether they openly state it or not, performance-for-the-dollar must be some part of their analysis.
Quote from: Mitlov on December 08, 2010, 03:05:44 pmQuote from: vdk on December 08, 2010, 03:01:00 pmThe VW TDI should've been replaced by BMW's diesel engine. It's a much better engine.It should be, considering it's in cars that cost twice as much.Yes, but these 'wards are based solely on engine performance.
Quote from: vdk on December 08, 2010, 03:01:00 pmThe VW TDI should've been replaced by BMW's diesel engine. It's a much better engine.It should be, considering it's in cars that cost twice as much.
The VW TDI should've been replaced by BMW's diesel engine. It's a much better engine.
Quote from: vdk on December 08, 2010, 03:01:00 pmThe VW TDI should've been replaced by BMW's diesel engine. It's a much better engine.Yes and no. The VW TDI doesn't require urea injection, that's a major plus going for it.
Gotta say that I am impressed to see that they put both the Volt and the Leaf on the list this year. Shows an open mindedness that is nice to see.Nice to see the new Pentastar hitting the list. Chrysler did it's homework on this one.I have no issues with anything on there.
Quote from: Erik on December 08, 2010, 09:03:45 amGotta say that I am impressed to see that they put both the Volt and the Leaf on the list this year. Shows an open mindedness that is nice to see.Nice to see the new Pentastar hitting the list. Chrysler did it's homework on this one.I have no issues with anything on there.Wait...why would they put the Leaf on there if it wasn't ground breaking in any way (as you were saying).
I liked your note on the forced induction. It has a lot to say about the future. Other than that I was playing thread nanny. Which has as much to contribute to the thread as "Funny how the list won't now be condemned as pointless and irrelevant, what with Ford, Chrysler and GM being represented."
Quote from: rrocket on December 08, 2010, 05:11:38 pmQuote from: Erik on December 08, 2010, 09:03:45 amGotta say that I am impressed to see that they put both the Volt and the Leaf on the list this year. Shows an open mindedness that is nice to see.Nice to see the new Pentastar hitting the list. Chrysler did it's homework on this one.I have no issues with anything on there.Wait...why would they put the Leaf on there if it wasn't ground breaking in any way (as you were saying). The "engine" is technologically interesting and seemingly well designed. I have no issue with that. Nor with the design of the car. No, I don't see it as groundbreaking, but I sure don't think it is a bad vehicle. Maybe I have been unclear about it, but my issue is with the lack of range and that there is no infrastructure to allow it's use as any other car can be used. 5-10 years from now, maybe. Today? Not so much.
Quote from: Erik on December 08, 2010, 08:52:54 pmQuote from: rrocket on December 08, 2010, 05:11:38 pmQuote from: Erik on December 08, 2010, 09:03:45 amGotta say that I am impressed to see that they put both the Volt and the Leaf on the list this year. Shows an open mindedness that is nice to see.Nice to see the new Pentastar hitting the list. Chrysler did it's homework on this one.I have no issues with anything on there.Wait...why would they put the Leaf on there if it wasn't ground breaking in any way (as you were saying). The "engine" is technologically interesting and seemingly well designed. I have no issue with that. Nor with the design of the car. No, I don't see it as groundbreaking, but I sure don't think it is a bad vehicle. Maybe I have been unclear about it, but my issue is with the lack of range and that there is no infrastructure to allow it's use as any other car can be used. 5-10 years from now, maybe. Today? Not so much. Today, are there any other fully electric cars that have a better range than the Leaf?
Best I know of in something that is close to production is the Tesla. I think they quote just under 250 miles for that. Kind of a cool car actually. Works pretty well as a weekend toy. Really quick too, tho I doubt you get to enjoy the really quick part and the 250 mile range at the same time.
Quote from: Erik on December 08, 2010, 09:21:47 pmBest I know of in something that is close to production is the Tesla. I think they quote just under 250 miles for that. Kind of a cool car actually. Works pretty well as a weekend toy. Really quick too, tho I doubt you get to enjoy the really quick part and the 250 mile range at the same time.Tesla ia a great car, and the range is really good. But you know why no one talks about it? I've give you 109,000 guesses.....
Quote from: vdk on December 08, 2010, 04:00:00 pmQuote from: Mitlov on December 08, 2010, 03:19:16 pmQuote from: vdk on December 08, 2010, 03:10:19 pmQuote from: Mitlov on December 08, 2010, 03:05:44 pmQuote from: vdk on December 08, 2010, 03:01:00 pmThe VW TDI should've been replaced by BMW's diesel engine. It's a much better engine.It should be, considering it's in cars that cost twice as much.Yes, but these 'wards are based solely on engine performance. Then why is the Cooper S engine there? Compared to an N55, or the S4's mill, it's not exactly the bee's knees.Whether they openly state it or not, performance-for-the-dollar must be some part of their analysis.As mentioned:Engines must be available in regular-production vehicles on sale in the U.S. market no later than the first quarter of the year. To be eligible, the engine also must be available in a vehicle with a base price of no more than $54,000 (for 2007 list). During a 2-month testing period, Ward's editors evaluate each engine according to a number of objective and subjective criteria in everyday driving situations – there is no instrumented testing. The selection takes into account power and torque output, noise, vibration and harshness (NVH) levels, technical relevance, and basic comparative numbers. Each engine competes against all others.And I agree with their assessment Have only seen a few 335d's on the road, but boy would love to try one of them.
Quote from: CanuckG35 on December 08, 2010, 09:16:52 pmQuote from: Erik on December 08, 2010, 08:52:54 pmQuote from: rrocket on December 08, 2010, 05:11:38 pmQuote from: Erik on December 08, 2010, 09:03:45 amGotta say that I am impressed to see that they put both the Volt and the Leaf on the list this year. Shows an open mindedness that is nice to see.Nice to see the new Pentastar hitting the list. Chrysler did it's homework on this one.I have no issues with anything on there.Wait...why would they put the Leaf on there if it wasn't ground breaking in any way (as you were saying). The "engine" is technologically interesting and seemingly well designed. I have no issue with that. Nor with the design of the car. No, I don't see it as groundbreaking, but I sure don't think it is a bad vehicle. Maybe I have been unclear about it, but my issue is with the lack of range and that there is no infrastructure to allow it's use as any other car can be used. 5-10 years from now, maybe. Today? Not so much. Today, are there any other fully electric cars that have a better range than the Leaf? Best I know of in something that is close to production is the Tesla. I think they quote just under 250 miles for that. Kind of a cool car actually. Works pretty well as a weekend toy. Really quick too, tho I doubt you get to enjoy the really quick part and the 250 mile range at the same time.
A Tesla?? That's your debate?? Don't get me wrong, I love Tesla and think they make amazing vehicles but I hardly think they are a competitor of the Leaf........which is what we are chatting about.
Quote from: Erik on December 08, 2010, 09:21:47 pmQuote from: CanuckG35 on December 08, 2010, 09:16:52 pmQuote from: Erik on December 08, 2010, 08:52:54 pmQuote from: rrocket on December 08, 2010, 05:11:38 pmQuote from: Erik on December 08, 2010, 09:03:45 amGotta say that I am impressed to see that they put both the Volt and the Leaf on the list this year. Shows an open mindedness that is nice to see.Nice to see the new Pentastar hitting the list. Chrysler did it's homework on this one.I have no issues with anything on there.Wait...why would they put the Leaf on there if it wasn't ground breaking in any way (as you were saying). The "engine" is technologically interesting and seemingly well designed. I have no issue with that. Nor with the design of the car. No, I don't see it as groundbreaking, but I sure don't think it is a bad vehicle. Maybe I have been unclear about it, but my issue is with the lack of range and that there is no infrastructure to allow it's use as any other car can be used. 5-10 years from now, maybe. Today? Not so much. Today, are there any other fully electric cars that have a better range than the Leaf? Best I know of in something that is close to production is the Tesla. I think they quote just under 250 miles for that. Kind of a cool car actually. Works pretty well as a weekend toy. Really quick too, tho I doubt you get to enjoy the really quick part and the 250 mile range at the same time.A Tesla?? That's your debate?? Don't get me wrong, I love Tesla and think they make amazing vehicles but I hardly think they are a competitor of the Leaf........which is what we are chatting about.
That's why the Leaf is so neat. It makes having a pure EV affordable to the masses. Not so with the cool Tesla.
Quote from: CanuckG35 on December 08, 2010, 10:25:48 pmA Tesla?? That's your debate?? Don't get me wrong, I love Tesla and think they make amazing vehicles but I hardly think they are a competitor of the Leaf........which is what we are chatting about. That's why the Leaf is so neat. It makes having a pure EV affordable to the masses. Not so with the cool Tesla.