Topic: Ward's Top Ten Engines - Some surprises this year!

[sirAQUAMAN64]

The VW TDI should've been replaced by BMW's diesel engine. It's a much better engine.

It should be, considering it's in cars that cost twice as much.

Yes, but these 'wards are based solely on engine performance.

Then why is the Cooper S engine there?  Compared to an N55, or the S4's mill, it's not exactly the bee's knees.

Whether they openly state it or not, performance-for-the-dollar must be some part of their analysis.

As mentioned:

Engines must be available in regular-production vehicles on sale in the U.S. market no later than the first quarter of the year. To be eligible, the engine also must be available in a vehicle with a base price of no more than $54,000 (for 2007 list). During a 2-month testing period, Ward's editors evaluate each engine according to a number of objective and subjective criteria in everyday driving situations – there is no instrumented testing. The selection takes into account power and torque output, noise, vibration and harshness (NVH) levels, technical relevance, and basic comparative numbers. Each engine competes against all others.

And I agree with their assessment 

Have only seen a few 335d's on the road, but boy would love to try one of them.

[Shnak]

The VW TDI should've been replaced by BMW's diesel engine. It's a much better engine.

Yes and no. The VW TDI doesn't require urea injection, that's a major plus going for it.

[EV Dan]

The VW TDI should've been replaced by BMW's diesel engine. It's a much better engine.

Yes and no. The VW TDI doesn't require urea injection, that's a major plus going for it.

Well, its not a big deal 

[rrocket]

Gotta say that I am impressed to see that they put both the Volt and the Leaf on the list this year. Shows an open mindedness that is nice to see.

Nice to see the new Pentastar hitting the list. Chrysler did it's homework on this one.

I have no issues with anything on there.

Wait...why would they put the Leaf on there if it wasn't ground breaking in any way (as you were saying).   

[mmret]

Interesting they didn't put the updated 2.0T (211/258) on there? I believe the older 200/207 version was on the list a few times running.

[Erik]

Gotta say that I am impressed to see that they put both the Volt and the Leaf on the list this year. Shows an open mindedness that is nice to see.

Nice to see the new Pentastar hitting the list. Chrysler did it's homework on this one.

I have no issues with anything on there.

Wait...why would they put the Leaf on there if it wasn't ground breaking in any way (as you were saying).   

The "engine" is technologically interesting and seemingly well designed. I have no issue with that. Nor with the design of the car. No, I don't see it as groundbreaking, but I sure don't think it is a bad vehicle. Maybe I have been unclear about it, but my issue is with the lack of range and that there is no infrastructure to allow it's use as any other car can be used. 5-10 years from now, maybe. Today? Not so much.

[TopGun]

I liked your note on the forced induction. It has a lot to say about the future. Other than that I was playing thread nanny. Which has as much to contribute to the thread as "Funny how the list won't now be condemned as pointless and irrelevant, what with Ford, Chrysler and GM being represented."

Hey, come on...he had to count the numbers of Turbocharged or Supercharged and then divide 5 into 10!   

[CanuckS2K]

Gotta say that I am impressed to see that they put both the Volt and the Leaf on the list this year. Shows an open mindedness that is nice to see.

Nice to see the new Pentastar hitting the list. Chrysler did it's homework on this one.

I have no issues with anything on there.

Wait...why would they put the Leaf on there if it wasn't ground breaking in any way (as you were saying).   

The "engine" is technologically interesting and seemingly well designed. I have no issue with that. Nor with the design of the car. No, I don't see it as groundbreaking, but I sure don't think it is a bad vehicle. Maybe I have been unclear about it, but my issue is with the lack of range and that there is no infrastructure to allow it's use as any other car can be used. 5-10 years from now, maybe. Today? Not so much.

Today, are there any other fully electric cars that have a better range than the Leaf? 

[Erik]

Gotta say that I am impressed to see that they put both the Volt and the Leaf on the list this year. Shows an open mindedness that is nice to see.

Nice to see the new Pentastar hitting the list. Chrysler did it's homework on this one.

I have no issues with anything on there.

Wait...why would they put the Leaf on there if it wasn't ground breaking in any way (as you were saying).   

The "engine" is technologically interesting and seemingly well designed. I have no issue with that. Nor with the design of the car. No, I don't see it as groundbreaking, but I sure don't think it is a bad vehicle. Maybe I have been unclear about it, but my issue is with the lack of range and that there is no infrastructure to allow it's use as any other car can be used. 5-10 years from now, maybe. Today? Not so much.

Today, are there any other fully electric cars that have a better range than the Leaf? 

Best I know of in something that is close to production is the Tesla. I think they quote just under 250 miles for that. Kind of a cool car actually. Works pretty well as a weekend toy. Really quick too, tho I doubt you get to enjoy the really quick part and the 250 mile range at the same time.

[rrocket]

Best I know of in something that is close to production is the Tesla. I think they quote just under 250 miles for that. Kind of a cool car actually. Works pretty well as a weekend toy. Really quick too, tho I doubt you get to enjoy the really quick part and the 250 mile range at the same time.

Tesla ia a great car, and the range is really good.  But you know why no one talks about it?  I've give you 109,000 guesses.....

[Erik]

Best I know of in something that is close to production is the Tesla. I think they quote just under 250 miles for that. Kind of a cool car actually. Works pretty well as a weekend toy. Really quick too, tho I doubt you get to enjoy the really quick part and the 250 mile range at the same time.

Tesla ia a great car, and the range is really good.  But you know why no one talks about it?  I've give you 109,000 guesses.....

I really admire Tesla for what they are doing. Talk about carving out a brilliant little niche for themselves. Plenty of range for some nice drives in the country side. All the Lotus bits make it fun to drive. Cool way to move the technology forward. Any idea what their sales are like?

[Mitlov]

Best I know of in something that is close to production is the Tesla. I think they quote just under 250 miles for that. Kind of a cool car actually. Works pretty well as a weekend toy. Really quick too, tho I doubt you get to enjoy the really quick part and the 250 mile range at the same time.

The Tesla is too expensive to be considered for Ward's Top Ten Engines Powertrains.

[2JDM]

The VW TDI should've been replaced by BMW's diesel engine. It's a much better engine.

It should be, considering it's in cars that cost twice as much.

Yes, but these 'wards are based solely on engine performance.

Then why is the Cooper S engine there?  Compared to an N55, or the S4's mill, it's not exactly the bee's knees.

Whether they openly state it or not, performance-for-the-dollar must be some part of their analysis.

As mentioned:

Engines must be available in regular-production vehicles on sale in the U.S. market no later than the first quarter of the year. To be eligible, the engine also must be available in a vehicle with a base price of no more than $54,000 (for 2007 list). During a 2-month testing period, Ward's editors evaluate each engine according to a number of objective and subjective criteria in everyday driving situations – there is no instrumented testing. The selection takes into account power and torque output, noise, vibration and harshness (NVH) levels, technical relevance, and basic comparative numbers. Each engine competes against all others.

And I agree with their assessment 

Have only seen a few 335d's on the road, but boy would love to try one of them.

265 HP & 425 lb-ft of torque @ 1,750 rpm  . They'd sell more if it was available with AWD.

[CanuckS2K]

Gotta say that I am impressed to see that they put both the Volt and the Leaf on the list this year. Shows an open mindedness that is nice to see.

Nice to see the new Pentastar hitting the list. Chrysler did it's homework on this one.

I have no issues with anything on there.

Wait...why would they put the Leaf on there if it wasn't ground breaking in any way (as you were saying).   

The "engine" is technologically interesting and seemingly well designed. I have no issue with that. Nor with the design of the car. No, I don't see it as groundbreaking, but I sure don't think it is a bad vehicle. Maybe I have been unclear about it, but my issue is with the lack of range and that there is no infrastructure to allow it's use as any other car can be used. 5-10 years from now, maybe. Today? Not so much.

Today, are there any other fully electric cars that have a better range than the Leaf? 

Best I know of in something that is close to production is the Tesla. I think they quote just under 250 miles for that. Kind of a cool car actually. Works pretty well as a weekend toy. Really quick too, tho I doubt you get to enjoy the really quick part and the 250 mile range at the same time.

A Tesla??  That's your debate??  Don't get me wrong, I love Tesla and think they make amazing vehicles but I hardly think they are a competitor of the Leaf........which is what we are chatting about.   

[rrocket]

A Tesla??  That's your debate??  Don't get me wrong, I love Tesla and think they make amazing vehicles but I hardly think they are a competitor of the Leaf........which is what we are chatting about.   

That's why the Leaf is so neat.  It makes having a pure EV affordable to the masses.  Not so with the cool Tesla.

[Erik]

Gotta say that I am impressed to see that they put both the Volt and the Leaf on the list this year. Shows an open mindedness that is nice to see.

Nice to see the new Pentastar hitting the list. Chrysler did it's homework on this one.

I have no issues with anything on there.

Wait...why would they put the Leaf on there if it wasn't ground breaking in any way (as you were saying).   

The "engine" is technologically interesting and seemingly well designed. I have no issue with that. Nor with the design of the car. No, I don't see it as groundbreaking, but I sure don't think it is a bad vehicle. Maybe I have been unclear about it, but my issue is with the lack of range and that there is no infrastructure to allow it's use as any other car can be used. 5-10 years from now, maybe. Today? Not so much.

Today, are there any other fully electric cars that have a better range than the Leaf? 

Best I know of in something that is close to production is the Tesla. I think they quote just under 250 miles for that. Kind of a cool car actually. Works pretty well as a weekend toy. Really quick too, tho I doubt you get to enjoy the really quick part and the 250 mile range at the same time.

A Tesla??  That's your debate??  Don't get me wrong, I love Tesla and think they make amazing vehicles but I hardly think they are a competitor of the Leaf........which is what we are chatting about.   

Sorry. Didn't realize we were debating anything. You asked a question, and I answered it. I am not suggesting they are a competitor to the Leaf. They are an electric vehicle with a much bigger range. I am not comparing the Leaf to electric vehicles. I am just comparing it to other cars. Any other car you choose to bring, actually.

[TopGun]

That's why the Leaf is so neat.  It makes having a pure EV affordable to the masses.  Not so with the cool Tesla.

Agreed.  And the masses that can deal with the range might end up buying it too.   

I'm working on transcribing the latest AutoLine AfterHours on their Leaf experiences.  Very interesting!  I will post it in the Leaf thread.

[Erik]

A Tesla??  That's your debate??  Don't get me wrong, I love Tesla and think they make amazing vehicles but I hardly think they are a competitor of the Leaf........which is what we are chatting about.   

That's why the Leaf is so neat.  It makes having a pure EV affordable to the masses.  Not so with the cool Tesla.

Can't argue any of that. No one really did this before Nissan on a production basis. Not taking anything away from Nissan on a technology perspective at all.

[garymorrison23]

Seems like a good list. Thanks for it.

[SeaBlueS4]

265 HP & 425 lb-ft of torque @ 1,750 rpm  . They'd sell more if it was available with AWD.
[/quote]


Agreed, no AWD and no manual ruled it out for me, otherwise it drove great. Actually preferred it to both the 328xi and 335xi.