Topic: New Honda models are slow sellers... duh?

[Mitlov]

Another thing, Honda: quit dicking around with concepts that look like this:



or this:



or this:



How much money that could be dedicated to more useful pursuits has been pumped into these pie-in-the-sky concepts that have no relation to upcoming models?

[Frontier1]

I won't bash them, but when I drive by a Honda dealership it's like driving by an open field, nothing to see here for me.

No surprise given you drive on of the quirkiest looking cars currently available..

Won't deny that, and love it!  When I saw the Juke on the lot, it caught my eye for sure.  I don't want to be seen driving a toaster, that's me.  I've always distrust a Honda transmission. They make great snowblowers

Coming from a guy who also drives an Altima, I find that statement puzzling, to say the least... 

In this category the Altima is not a toaster, research it a bit , the Altima has always been the one to give the sporty ride and better road handling.

[triuman]

So if you were Honda execs... what would you do to the lineup? Keepers? Redesigns? Throw aways?


Speaking as a Civic owner, kudos to Honda for pulling the upcoming 9th gen Civic for redesign (it was going to be too big, heavy and not frugal). Honda realized it was getting away from what the Civic is meant to be. And with that in mind, I would stay true with such a redesign of the Civic, along with the option of getting a turbo. 

My father has an Accord, and I find it boring and dull to drive. Too quiet, too isolated. With the Civic, I get feeback along with all the road noise that everyone bitches about. 

[Shnak]

I agree with the sentiment that, in the grand scheme of things, the slow sales of Honda's niche products don't really matter. It's the sales of their bread-and-butter lineup that are important... and I believe the Civic is still selling well despite being a 5 year old design, the Fit is still at or near the top of its class (the Fiesta/Mazda 2 are really strong competitors and beat it in some respects, but the Fit wins in some others, so I call it a draw), and the Accord is doing all right (I think?).

What's more interesting, imo, is where the next generation of these cars go. That Honda pulled the next-gen Civic because it was too big/too floaty/too inefficient concerns me, but it also leads me to believe they're aware of their problems and acting upon them...

So, I'll wait and see if the next-gen Civic and Fit are any good. If they're not, then Honda might well have lost its way. But I'm not too worried... yet.

(And FYI, mmret, have you actually driven a Ridgeline? IMO it's a wonderful light truck - the design is genius, and pure Honda. The only problem with it, imo, is the price. If they can keep it as good as it is but make it cheaper, I think you'd see a lot more of them).

Totally agree with everything you wrote, especially the part about the Ridgeline. If it was $5k cheaper, a lot more people would be interested, especially those who buy discounted F150 and Silverados, my dad included. He briefly looked at the Ridgeline when shopping for a truck and couldn't believe how expensive they were. He got a really well equiped F150 for much less than even the base Ridgeline, probably $8k less on the road. That's too bad because he would've been the perfect candidate for the Ridgeline.

[saint_satan]

For the last 15 years or so, there always has a Honda Civic in the driveway as the "puddle - jumper".  At one point I also had a CR-V.  I agree that the Honda line-up is slipping - both in terms of interesting products and possibly quality (at least for the Civic).

But they are not alone.  In another thread I lamented the lousy styling of a bulk of the new SUVs.  I think styling of all companies is slipping.  Of course there are exceptions, but most companies are a little boring with a dash of outright weird thrown in.  I think part of Ford's recent success is that most of the vehicles are inoffensive.

[Shnak]

I won't bash them, but when I drive by a Honda dealership it's like driving by an open field, nothing to see here for me.

No surprise given you drive on of the quirkiest looking cars currently available..

Won't deny that, and love it!  When I saw the Juke on the lot, it caught my eye for sure.  I don't want to be seen driving a toaster, that's me.  I've always distrust a Honda transmission. They make great snowblowers

Coming from a guy who also drives an Altima, I find that statement puzzling, to say the least... 

In this category the Altima is not a toaster, research it a bit , the Altima has always been the one to give the sporty ride and better road handling.

Aren't we talking about the looks of the vehicles here, considering you said you didn't want to be 'seen' driving around in a toaster? Because that's the only thing I was referring to in my post. Not how the cars drive, but their looks. And besides, the Accord is most definitely still near the top of the class for driving enjoyment. Sure, it's a tad boring for the eyes, but it's still pretty fun to drive.

[CatsEye68]

Totally agree with everything you wrote, especially the part about the Ridgeline. If it was $5k cheaper, a lot more people would be interested, especially those who buy discounted F150 and Silverados, my dad included. He briefly looked at the Ridgeline when shopping for a truck and couldn't believe how expensive they were. He got a really well equiped F150 for much less than even the base Ridgeline, probably $8k less on the road. That's too bad because he would've been the perfect candidate for the Ridgeline.

The Ridgeline is a perfect example of where Honda's stylists have gone off the rails. The only way "a lot more people" would be interested in that would be after a total redesign.

[rrocket]

Totally agree with everything you wrote, especially the part about the Ridgeline. If it was $5k cheaper, a lot more people would be interested, especially those who buy discounted F150 and Silverados, my dad included. He briefly looked at the Ridgeline when shopping for a truck and couldn't believe how expensive they were. He got a really well equiped F150 for much less than even the base Ridgeline, probably $8k less on the road. That's too bad because he would've been the perfect candidate for the Ridgeline.

The Ridgeline is a perfect example of where Honda's stylists have gone off the rails. The only way "a lot more people" would be interested in that would be after a total redesign.

You mean the Avalanche was off the rails too then??

[CatsEye68]

Totally agree with everything you wrote, especially the part about the Ridgeline. If it was $5k cheaper, a lot more people would be interested, especially those who buy discounted F150 and Silverados, my dad included. He briefly looked at the Ridgeline when shopping for a truck and couldn't believe how expensive they were. He got a really well equiped F150 for much less than even the base Ridgeline, probably $8k less on the road. That's too bad because he would've been the perfect candidate for the Ridgeline.

The Ridgeline is a perfect example of where Honda's stylists have gone off the rails. The only way "a lot more people" would be interested in that would be after a total redesign.

You mean the Avalanche was off the rails too then??

Certainly the original model was. The current one shows what benefits a redesign can bring.

[rrocket]

Certainly the original model was. The current one shows what benefits a redesign can bring.

I think the Ridgeline looked more like the Avalanche redesign than the original though....but that's just me.

[Frontier1]

Totally agree with everything you wrote, especially the part about the Ridgeline. If it was $5k cheaper, a lot more people would be interested, especially those who buy discounted F150 and Silverados, my dad included. He briefly looked at the Ridgeline when shopping for a truck and couldn't believe how expensive they were. He got a really well equiped F150 for much less than even the base Ridgeline, probably $8k less on the road. That's too bad because he would've been the perfect candidate for the Ridgeline.

The Ridgeline is a perfect example of where Honda's stylists have gone off the rails. The only way "a lot more people" would be interested in that would be after a total redesign.

You mean the Avalanche was off the rails too then??

Avalanche is a real truck, RWD.  The Ridgeline is a truckette, FWD

[footlong58]

Honda used to be a company run by engineers.  The had ideas like CVCC engines, F1 derived technology, VTEC, double wishbone suspensions, hi tech inline 4's, snick-snick manual transmissions, etc...

They've lost that, they have nothing leading edge.  No turbos, no direct injection, no trick suspensions, no new transmissions, 40k+ bloated Accords called Crosstours with no options.  It's even more evident they have no idea what to do with Acura.  They aren't pioneering any technology or design.  Honda is just "there".

[Frontier1]

Honda used to be a company run by engineers.  The had ideas like CVCC engines, F1 derived technology, VTEC, double wishbone suspensions, hi tech inline 4's, snick-snick manual transmissions, etc...

They've lost that, they have nothing leading edge.  No turbos, no direct injection, no trick suspensions, no new transmissions, 40k+ bloated Accords called Crosstours with no options.  It's even more evident they have no idea what to do with Acura.  They aren't pioneering any technology or design.  Honda is just "there".

..hence my previous comparison of a Honda dealership to an open field, I just leaves me indifferent.

[Ice]

Honda used to be a company run by engineers.  The had ideas like CVCC engines, F1 derived technology, VTEC, double wishbone suspensions, hi tech inline 4's, snick-snick manual transmissions, etc...

They've lost that, they have nothing leading edge.  No turbos, no direct injection, no trick suspensions, no new transmissions, 40k+ bloated Accords called Crosstours with no options.  It's even more evident they have no idea what to do with Acura.  They aren't pioneering any technology or design.  Honda is just "there".

I almost have to agree... except I'll say again that my parents bought two recent Honda products and after a lot of test driving they had the best vehicles for their purposes. But I really worry about what is next because they are starting to look a little left behind... By the likes of Ford and Hyundai which 10 years or even 5 years ago may have been laughable.

I hope they pull up their socks so to speak.

[Mitlov]

Honda used to be a company run by engineers.  The had ideas like CVCC engines, F1 derived technology, VTEC, double wishbone suspensions, hi tech inline 4's, snick-snick manual transmissions, etc...

They've lost that, they have nothing leading edge.  No turbos, no direct injection, no trick suspensions, no new transmissions, 40k+ bloated Accords called Crosstours with no options.  It's even more evident they have no idea what to do with Acura.  They aren't pioneering any technology or design.  Honda is just "there".

Some of your criticisms are valid, but I don't agree with all of them.

They've still got the snick-snick manual transmissions, arguably the best on the market.  Drive a Civic Si sometime.  I hear the TL SH-AWD's manual transmission is pretty great too.

They do have a turbocharged engine--the K23A1 found in the Acura RDX.  They should use it in more applications *cough*TSX*cough*, but it's not true that they have no turbocharged engines.

In 2005, Acura changed the game for AWD with torque-vectoring (SH-AWD).  Other companies (such as BMW and Audi and Saab) have jumped on the torque-vectoring bandwagon, but there's one big advancement by Honda/Acura in the past five years.

EDIT:

Other recent innovations include the Fit's magic seat and overall packaging (the interior-space-to-exterior-dimensions on that car is INSANE), as well as the speedo setup from the Civic, CR-Z, etc (we're seen digital speedos before, but not up by the windshield where they're always in your peripheral vision.  It seems like a gimmick until you live with it for a month, then you never want to go back).

[Mitlov]

Without diminishing the issues that Honda/Acura face, I'd like to toss out another car out there that they're really doing right.  The TL SH-AWD.  It's got 300+ horsepower, an available manual transmission, superb handling and a willing engine according to everything I've read, and (at least in the US) it's about 80% of the price of a similarly-equipped 335xi.  The difference between US$43,000 and US$53,000 is nothing to sneeze at.  Edit: and torque-vectoring AWD!  Still a rarity on the market, particularly at that price.

Yes, it's got an ugly grille.  But setting that aside (literally, by painting it or replacing it with an aftermarket grille), what you get for your money with a TL SH-AWD 6MT Technology is really excellent, on both the sport front and the amenities/luxury front.

[rrocket]

Without diminishing the issues that Honda/Acura face, I'd like to toss out another car out there that they're really doing right.  The TL SH-AWD.  It's got 300+ horsepower, an available manual transmission, superb handling and a willing engine according to everything I've read, and (at least in the US) it's about 80% of the price of a similarly-equipped 335xi.  The difference between US$43,000 and US$53,000 is nothing to sneeze at.

Yes, it's got an ugly grille.  But setting that aside (literally, by painting it or replacing it with an aftermarket grille), what you get for your money with a TL SH-AWD 6MT Technology is really excellent, on both the sport front and the amenities/luxury front.

I agree.  I REALLY like that car.  Doesn't hurt either that it was quicker around the racetrack than a 335i....

[TopGun]

I agree.  I REALLY like that car.  Doesn't hurt either that it was quicker around the racetrack than a 335i....

Apparently sounds great too.  Still a lot for a car for me...but hey, it's in that segment.  I don't mind the back end at all...and the front looks pretty good in the photos that Rrocket had posted previously.

The MT is going away IIRC.

[mmret]

TL AWD is something I really really really want to like but ... can't.

Maybe they'll facelift and fix it though. I'm fine with the back end, its just the nose... and no I didn't much like the Ronjon aftermarket stuff. Too ricey.

[TopGun]

TL AWD is something I really really really want to like but ... can't.

Maybe they'll facelift and fix it though. I'm fine with the back end, its just the nose... and no I didn't much like the Ronjon aftermarket stuff. Too ricey.

I could overlook it.  The come in a neat cherry colour with camel interior...different and sharp!

Than again, I own an RX-8...so what do I know!