Topic: 2011 Infiniti M37S; Day 1

[wing]

Jaeger - normally I write 300 words you got over 500! stop complaining

[Shnak]

I'm late to the manufacturer debate party!  Will I be admonished for resurrecting?

Some opinion points to offer:
- agreed Inifiniti is identity crisis but who is to say that the sport/luxury compromise is a lack of identity; it's a valid niche point if you find MB overly luxo, BMW overly sporty.
- I think Lexus has put more effort into interior design and overall fit and finish.  Infiniti I think has more effort into sportiness; plus you can only increase the interior design and overall fit and finish of the JDM Skyline
- RDX is actually a separate platform from CR-V
- the CSX is cdn exclusive and really should be excluded from a NA sales perspective.  
- in terms of sales vs Acura, Inifiniti is absent in a v.large market segment: upscale mid-sized SUV/CUV.  As someone posted the MDX is doing very well.  FX is not a competitor here and is after a different market, which apparently is a smaller market than the MDX.  The QX is now simply too large and expensive to be a cross competitor here.
- M is more the competitor to the RL than the G.  Performance numbers are one thing but here the formulistic size is more a factor.  Think 5 series=E-Class=A6=M=RL; 3series=C-Class=A4=G=TL
- to be more robust Infiniti needs strong sales in more than just the G.  They are hoping the new M will be that light, but really from a market perspective, they should be after different fish: the need to steal MDX/X5/X3/Q7/Q5/GLK market share.  They probably think they are too late to the game and don't have anything readily available though?

Good points. Infiniti's lineup really is missing a MDX-type vehicle, that's true. And the CSX being exclusive to Canada is another good point, although it hasn't been selling that greatly for the last little while, so in the overall picture, it's not making much of a difference.

[Mart]

 IMHO Acura have much better interiors than the BMW. Much of BMW or Benz's clout is due to established tradition. People automatically assume than any BMW is better than an Acura or infiniti. Try an entry level Benz or BMW and tell me what makes them more "luxurious"?

 At least in their lower models, BMW and Benz are more status symbols than real luxury cars. Also, don't forget that many car reviews do not talk about reliability. I am sure you have seen many newer-model BMW or Benz vehicles being towed or stranded by the side of the road. Their poor owners must be embarrassed to see all the "lowly" Corollas pass them. This is hardly luxury. No amount of "steering feel" helps when the car is not running.

[safristi]

..Wing...Rrocket told me he wants more details on the ASHTRAYS & LIGHTER..does it come wif a CEEGAR CLIPPER and an HUMI-DOOR.....

[Jaeger]

Jaeger - normally I write 300 words you got over 500! stop complaining

And it was a good entry.  But 500 words with zero ashtray analysis would make a good Day 3 entry even better. 

Jaeger

[wing]

I was also going to mention the seat-belts but forgot   They are automatic and annoying.

[Railton]

I was also going to mention the seat-belts but forgot   They are automatic and annoying.

The horror!
Railton

[Shnak]

I was also going to mention the seat-belts but forgot   They are automatic and annoying.

The horror!
Railton

What's the point of paying big bucks for luxury items if they suck and take away from the overall experience of owning a luxury vehicle?

[pcurve]

IMHO Acura have much better interiors than the BMW. Much of BMW or Benz's clout is due to established tradition. People automatically assume than any BMW is better than an Acura or infiniti. Try an entry level Benz or BMW and tell me what makes them more "luxurious"?

 At least in their lower models, BMW and Benz are more status symbols than real luxury cars. Also, don't forget that many car reviews do not talk about reliability. I am sure you have seen many newer-model BMW or Benz vehicles being towed or stranded by the side of the road. Their poor owners must be embarrassed to see all the "lowly" Corollas pass them. This is hardly luxury. No amount of "steering feel" helps when the car is not running.

I disagree on Acura having better interior than BMW or Mercedes.  Acura's design may look more attractive to some, but the material quality and fit and finish are substantially better in BMW and Merc.  You need to sit in a BMW and Merc to appreciate the level of quality in these vehicles.  They use quality materials everywhere, not just on major touch points.

After all these years, Honda still doesn't know how to build proper luxury car, while Nissan has gotten substantially better.

[Roy]

From the Day 4 review: "...the M37S takes an entirely different approach to mid-sized luxury by offering more sport than luxury, and then much more luxury"

I've reread this a few times but I am not sure what Wing is trying to say?  Is it that it is sport oriented with less traditional luxury points (e.g. fit and finish, material quality, etc not as good as competitors) , but they try and make up for it with gadgets or features?

[sailor723]

From the Day 4 review: "...the M37S takes an entirely different approach to mid-sized luxury by offering more sport than luxury, and then much more luxury"

I've reread this a few times but I am not sure what Wing is trying to say?  Is it that it is sport oriented with less traditional luxury points (e.g. fit and finish, material quality, etc not as good as competitors) , but they try and make up for it with gadgets or features?

yeah....that confused me a bit too.  Maybe he's trying to say it was always sporty but now has more luxury as well?

[greengs]

IMHO Acura have much better interiors than the BMW. Much of BMW or Benz's clout is due to established tradition. People automatically assume than any BMW is better than an Acura or infiniti. Try an entry level Benz or BMW and tell me what makes them more "luxurious"?

 At least in their lower models, BMW and Benz are more status symbols than real luxury cars. Also, don't forget that many car reviews do not talk about reliability. I am sure you have seen many newer-model BMW or Benz vehicles being towed or stranded by the side of the road. Their poor owners must be embarrassed to see all the "lowly" Corollas pass them. This is hardly luxury. No amount of "steering feel" helps when the car is not running.

I disagree on Acura having better interior than BMW or Mercedes.  Acura's design may look more attractive to some, but the material quality and fit and finish are substantially better in BMW and Merc.  You need to sit in a BMW and Merc to appreciate the level of quality in these vehicles.  They use quality materials everywhere, not just on major touch points.

After all these years, Honda still doesn't know how to build proper luxury car, while Nissan has gotten substantially better.

Agreed. I find that it's people that don't spend enough time in these cars usually complain about the interiors the most.  This is mostly due to the fact that in pictures the BMW and Merc interiors look stark while the Infiniti and Acura interiors look much more photogenic.  Spending more time in each quickly reveals which interiors are put together better and which materials feel better inside. 

[aaronk]

IMHO Acura have much better interiors than the BMW. Much of BMW or Benz's clout is due to established tradition. People automatically assume than any BMW is better than an Acura or infiniti. Try an entry level Benz or BMW and tell me what makes them more "luxurious"?

 At least in their lower models, BMW and Benz are more status symbols than real luxury cars. Also, don't forget that many car reviews do not talk about reliability. I am sure you have seen many newer-model BMW or Benz vehicles being towed or stranded by the side of the road. Their poor owners must be embarrassed to see all the "lowly" Corollas pass them. This is hardly luxury. No amount of "steering feel" helps when the car is not running.

Exactly! The luxury part is often 'less is more' - it costs a lot to get a lot of functionality out of limited user interfaces. IMO, Infiniti and Acura just shove buttons all over the dashboard and end up with a swoopy but cluttered layout, whereas (especially BMW) integrates a lot of controls into a dash/console which looks very simple, minimalist and easy to live with. It may not be as photogenic as some others, but that wears off quickly.

I disagree on Acura having better interior than BMW or Mercedes.  Acura's design may look more attractive to some, but the material quality and fit and finish are substantially better in BMW and Merc.  You need to sit in a BMW and Merc to appreciate the level of quality in these vehicles.  They use quality materials everywhere, not just on major touch points.

After all these years, Honda still doesn't know how to build proper luxury car, while Nissan has gotten substantially better.

Agreed. I find that it's people that don't spend enough time in these cars usually complain about the interiors the most.  This is mostly due to the fact that in pictures the BMW and Merc interiors look stark while the Infiniti and Acura interiors look much more photogenic.  Spending more time in each quickly reveals which interiors are put together better and which materials feel better inside. 

[Spec5]

Don't think I've put it in this thread so here goes - Sounds like the Ford Taurus SHO would be a good compromise - AWD, superior power, a pretty nice interior in its own right and for thousands less than either the Infinity or BMW.

I must say though I really do like this car though I tend to agree with Jaeger I think you're better off getting the regular one.

[Shnak]

Don't think I've put it in this thread so here goes - Sounds like the Ford Taurus SHO would be a good compromise - AWD, superior power, a pretty nice interior in its own right and for thousands less than either the Infinity or BMW.

I must say though I really do like this car though I tend to agree with Jaeger I think you're better off getting the regular one.

As my father-in-law said after seeing the sticker price on a SHO in a mall: "$50,000 for a Ford?!" I then explained to him that the SHO was kind of a performance edition, and he still was scratching his head that a Taurus was costing that much.

No matter how nice the Taurus/Taurus SHO is, Ford isn't even in the same playing field compared to the 'big boys' of the luxury market.

[wing]

Whoa, i didn't write that!  It was edited and now certainly does not make sense.  It should read  "to mid-sized luxury by offering more sport than luxury, much more sport."

[inco]

Uh huh - sure Wing...now what were you drinking?

[Roy]

Don't think I've put it in this thread so here goes - Sounds like the Ford Taurus SHO would be a good compromise - AWD, superior power, a pretty nice interior in its own right and for thousands less than either the Infinity or BMW.

In the near-luxury/luxury segment prestige is typically the most significant factor; if you can afford a near$60k+ car on top of all of your other bills, MOST people tend to want to themselves and/or others that they have 'made it'.  Ford just doesn't fit that bill, SHO or not.  I have always been surprised at the SHO pricing as it is in their Lincoln branding territory.  It's kinda like the Maxima and the G37; now who wouldn't be surprised if the Maxima is discontinued shortly?  At least with the Taurus, there are other sub-models in its lineup rather than a dedicated SHO.

I hear ya though; prestige aside the SHO comes in at a good price compared to others in the same price range.  Heck I even think it out "Hyundai's" the Hyundai Equus.

[Roy]

Whoa, i didn't write that!  It was edited and now certainly does not make sense.  It should read  "to mid-sized luxury by offering more sport than luxury, much more sport."

Ahh, makes more sense now.

Really!?!  Would you say the M37rwd is sportier than the 535?

[Mart]

I disagree on Acura having better interior than BMW or Mercedes.  Acura's design may look more attractive to some, but the material quality and fit and finish are substantially better in BMW and Merc.  You need to sit in a BMW and Merc to appreciate the level of quality in these vehicles.  They use quality materials everywhere, not just on major touch points.

After all these years, Honda still doesn't know how to build proper luxury car, while Nissan has gotten substantially better.

 You mean better BMW interior quality and design as in cup holders that are placed in inconvenient locations and break all the time?
 
 You do pay a lot for a similarly equipped BMW or Benz than an Acura, but it doesn't mean you get a better car.