Topic: 2011 Infiniti M37S; Day 1

[Shnak]

but, i think infiniti has leap-frogged past acura in the last decade.  I noticed that when inifiniti ditched all the FWD models in their line-up, their marketshare jumped big-time.  acura has dropped the ball: no rwd, no v-8's, nothing more than 300hp, largely 5-speeds transmissions.

imho, it's better to play second fiddle to lexus than be in acura's shoes.

By what measure? As of October, Infiniti had sold 7,066 vehicles this year compared to 14,112 for Acura. Acura is still twice as many vehicles as Infiniti. Acura must be doing something right...

[guest]

By what measure? As of October, Infiniti had sold 7,066 vehicles this year compared to 14,112 for Acura. Acura is still twice as many vehicles as Infiniti. Acura must be doing something right...

i was talking about perceived prestige, not about sales volume.

acura's line-up includes the CSX, a dressed-up civic, the TSX, a euro-Accord and the RDX, a fancy CRV.  i'm guessing that acura probably moves about 5 CSX's for every infiniti G sold.

ever since infiniti dropped the FWD g20 and FWD i35, their cachet has gone up significantly.

[CanuckS2K]

but, i think infiniti has leap-frogged past acura in the last decade.  I noticed that when inifiniti ditched all the FWD models in their line-up, their marketshare jumped big-time.  acura has dropped the ball: no rwd, no v-8's, nothing more than 300hp, largely 5-speeds transmissions.

imho, it's better to play second fiddle to lexus than be in acura's shoes.

By what measure? As of October, Infiniti had sold 7,066 vehicles this year compared to 14,112 for Acura. Acura is still twice as many vehicles as Infiniti. Acura must be doing something right...

You also have to consider the dealership network as well.  I am not sure what the exact number is, but I doubt that Infiniti has any more than 20 dealerships Canada wide.  Heck, we only have ONE Infiniti dealership for all of NB, NS, PEI, and NFLD.  Acura on the other hand has many more.  People in NFLD would certainly think twice about taking an 8 hour boat ride both ways and many other hours of driving to pick up an Infiniti.  Anyways, Infiniti's small dealer network will certainly play a part in their sales numbers here in Canada. 

[guest]

from my point of view, acura's top-line model RL overlaps with the G37X in terms of specifications but competes with the M45 in terms of price.  in fact, the G37 makes more hp than the RL, yet the G is infiniti's entry model.  yes, i know that the G25 recently came out to move the brand down-market a bit, but overall, infiniti's line-up starts where acura's line-up ends.

on the other hand, neither acura nor infiniti have anything remotely close to competing with the lexus LS.  Infiniti did at one time with the now-discontinued Q, but no longer.  the legend/RL, as nice as it is/was, has never been a contender.

imho, acura<infiniti<lexus<audi<bmw/mercedes.  feel free to disagree.

[sailor723]

but, i think infiniti has leap-frogged past acura in the last decade.  I noticed that when inifiniti ditched all the FWD models in their line-up, their marketshare jumped big-time.  acura has dropped the ball: no rwd, no v-8's, nothing more than 300hp, largely 5-speeds transmissions.

imho, it's better to play second fiddle to lexus than be in acura's shoes.

By what measure? As of October, Infiniti had sold 7,066 vehicles this year compared to 14,112 for Acura. Acura is still twice as many vehicles as Infiniti. Acura must be doing something right...

You also have to consider the dealership network as well.  I am not sure what the exact number is, but I doubt that Infiniti has any more than 20 dealerships Canada wide.  Heck, we only have ONE Infiniti dealership for all of NB, NS, PEI, and NFLD.  Acura on the other hand has many more.  People in NFLD would certainly think twice about taking an 8 hour boat ride both ways and many other hours of driving to pick up an Infiniti.  Anyways, Infiniti's small dealer network will certainly play a part in their sales numbers here in Canada. 

Good point about the dealer network. Infiniti certainly wouldn't make my short list if for no other reason that I'm not prepared to drive 800+ kms round trip to the nearest dealer in Halifax.

I've often wondered why some of these lower volume brands with limited dealer networks don't set up 'service only' satellite dealers for routine mantainance and minor warranty repairs. In Infiniti's case it would make perfect sense to allow Nissan dealers to do this in small markets without an Infiniti dealer.

[ArticSteve]

I've often wondered why some of these lower volume brands with limited dealer networks don't set up 'service only' satellite dealers for routine mantainance and minor warranty repairs. In Infiniti's case it would make perfect sense to allow Nissan dealers to do this in small markets without an Infiniti dealer.

Just combine both brands under one roof.  Walk in the front entrance and to the left of reception is the Infiniti showroom and service waiting "designer room" and to the right is the Nissan showroom with the stripped down service waiting "area".

This is an example:  Newmarket is 30 minutes north of Toronto.  Basically still part of the GTA.

http://www.newmarketinfinitinissan.ca/index.htm

[sailor723]

I've often wondered why some of these lower volume brands with limited dealer networks don't set up 'service only' satellite dealers for routine mantainance and minor warranty repairs. In Infiniti's case it would make perfect sense to allow Nissan dealers to do this in small markets without an Infiniti dealer.

Just combine both brands under one roof.  Walk in the front entrance and to the left of reception is the Infiniti showroom and service waiting "designer room" and to the right is the Nissan showroom with the stripped down service waiting "area".

This is an example:  Newmarket is 30 minutes north of Toronto.  Basically still part of the GTA.

http://www.newmarketinfinitinissan.ca/index.htm

Well,in my experience car cos in Canada are really big on image and they don't care what it costs. (as long as it's a dealer's money they are spending and not their own.) Insisting on standalone stores has kept many of the second tier manufacturers out of smaller markets. You see lots of dual dealerships in the US in smaller towns. Lexus/Toyota in Portland Maine is an example. Two separate building with showrooms/service waiting areas joined by an overhead canopy/outdoor service reception leading to a common shop in the back.

[Shnak]

By what measure? As of October, Infiniti had sold 7,066 vehicles this year compared to 14,112 for Acura. Acura is still twice as many vehicles as Infiniti. Acura must be doing something right...

i was talking about perceived prestige, not about sales volume.

acura's line-up includes the CSX, a dressed-up civic, the TSX, a euro-Accord and the RDX, a fancy CRV.  i'm guessing that acura probably moves about 5 CSX's for every infiniti G sold.

ever since infiniti dropped the FWD g20 and FWD i35, their cachet has gone up significantly.

You'd be guessing wrong. Acura sold 1,569 CSX's in the first 10 months of 2010, compared to 3,788 Inifini G's. Acura's best selling is the MDX, and by a wide margin. Infiniti's problem is that only the G is selling well, and the EX is decent. The rest is pretty much selling in negligeable numbers.

[CanuckS2K]

but, i think infiniti has leap-frogged past acura in the last decade.  I noticed that when inifiniti ditched all the FWD models in their line-up, their marketshare jumped big-time.  acura has dropped the ball: no rwd, no v-8's, nothing more than 300hp, largely 5-speeds transmissions.

imho, it's better to play second fiddle to lexus than be in acura's shoes.

By what measure? As of October, Infiniti had sold 7,066 vehicles this year compared to 14,112 for Acura. Acura is still twice as many vehicles as Infiniti. Acura must be doing something right...

You also have to consider the dealership network as well.  I am not sure what the exact number is, but I doubt that Infiniti has any more than 20 dealerships Canada wide.  Heck, we only have ONE Infiniti dealership for all of NB, NS, PEI, and NFLD.  Acura on the other hand has many more.  People in NFLD would certainly think twice about taking an 8 hour boat ride both ways and many other hours of driving to pick up an Infiniti.  Anyways, Infiniti's small dealer network will certainly play a part in their sales numbers here in Canada. 

Good point about the dealer network. Infiniti certainly wouldn't make my short list if for no other reason that I'm not prepared to drive 800+ kms round trip to the nearest dealer in Halifax.

I've often wondered why some of these lower volume brands with limited dealer networks don't set up 'service only' satellite dealers for routine mantainance and minor warranty repairs. In Infiniti's case it would make perfect sense to allow Nissan dealers to do this in small markets without an Infiniti dealer.

I've taken all of my Infiniti vehicles over the years to my local Nissan dealer here in Saint John.  I had to get one item of warranty work done in the past and was able to get that done at my Nissan dealership as well.  No way in heck am I driving 8 hours to get warranty work done.  Thankfully, O'Regans in Halifax has been a joy to deal with. 

[CatsEye68]

You see lots of dual dealerships in the US in smaller towns. Lexus/Toyota in Portland Maine is an example. Two separate building with showrooms/service waiting areas joined by an overhead canopy/outdoor service reception leading to a common shop in the back.

Not sure an image brand like Infiniti would want their $70K imagecruiser with the silver dust rubbed into the woodgrain trim on the hoist next to the pizza delivery kid's Versa. And most significantly, having the owner of said luxo-car sitting in the dealer's service area waiting room next to the single mother with 3 screaming kids waiting for her Sentra. We had a similar discussion in the Equus thread. The image that justifies these high prices extends to more than the sales experience.

[wing]

Hmmm Ottawa dealers are joined, Nissan / Infiniti, Lexus/ Toyota seems to work just fine.

[Shnak]

Hmmm Ottawa dealers are joined, Nissan / Infinity, Lexus/ Toyota seems to work just fine.

That's odd. Why would Nissan sell audio equipment? 

[wing]

Extra income for low sales volumes.

[Mike]

By what measure? As of October, Infiniti had sold 7,066 vehicles this year compared to 14,112 for Acura. Acura is still twice as many vehicles as Infiniti. Acura must be doing something right...

i was talking about perceived prestige, not about sales volume.

acura's line-up includes the CSX, a dressed-up civic, the TSX, a euro-Accord and the RDX, a fancy CRV.  i'm guessing that acura probably moves about 5 CSX's for every infiniti G sold.

ever since infiniti dropped the FWD g20 and FWD i35, their cachet has gone up significantly.

You'd be guessing wrong. Acura sold 1,569 CSX's in the first 10 months of 2010, compared to 3,788 Inifini G's. Acura's best selling is the MDX, and by a wide margin. Infiniti's problem is that only the G is selling well, and the EX is decent. The rest is pretty much selling in negligeable numbers.

It is really an apples to Oranges comparison.  Infiniti is selling higher market, more expsenive cars for the most part.  Up until the new G25, thier cheapest offering was the G37 whch started north of $40 000.  Acura has 3 car models (CSX TSX, TL) and one SUV (RDX) that start under that price.  Plus the more practical MDX wouldn't be cross shopped with a FX; different vehicles for different needs.

Infiniti is going after BMW exclusively it seemswhile Acura is aiming more for a mix of Audi and Lexus?

[CanuckS2K]

James, in your testing so far, which car would you go with if it was your hard earned money?  The 528i or the M37S?

[wing]

528i, not even close

[Jaeger]

Call me an old man if you like, but it sounds to me like 20in rubber and the sports package are not the way to go with this car.

And James - given that you make us wait until Day 3 for any driving impressions at all, could you refrain in the future from devoting the entire first paragraph of that entry to ashtrays and cigarette lighters?  Please?

Jaeger

[Railton]

528i, not even close

One of James hot buttons is fuel economy. Nuf'said.
Railton

[Shnak]

By what measure? As of October, Infiniti had sold 7,066 vehicles this year compared to 14,112 for Acura. Acura is still twice as many vehicles as Infiniti. Acura must be doing something right...

i was talking about perceived prestige, not about sales volume.

acura's line-up includes the CSX, a dressed-up civic, the TSX, a euro-Accord and the RDX, a fancy CRV.  i'm guessing that acura probably moves about 5 CSX's for every infiniti G sold.

ever since infiniti dropped the FWD g20 and FWD i35, their cachet has gone up significantly.

You'd be guessing wrong. Acura sold 1,569 CSX's in the first 10 months of 2010, compared to 3,788 Inifini G's. Acura's best selling is the MDX, and by a wide margin. Infiniti's problem is that only the G is selling well, and the EX is decent. The rest is pretty much selling in negligeable numbers.

It is really an apples to Oranges comparison.  Infiniti is selling higher market, more expsenive cars for the most part.  Up until the new G25, thier cheapest offering was the G37 whch started north of $40 000.  Acura has 3 car models (CSX TSX, TL) and one SUV (RDX) that start under that price.  Plus the more practical MDX wouldn't be cross shopped with a FX; different vehicles for different needs.

Infiniti is going after BMW exclusively it seemswhile Acura is aiming more for a mix of Audi and Lexus?

Curious, I found average transaction prices for the premium brands:
BMW - $52,083
MB - $48,382
Cadillac - $48,312
Audi - $43,668
Lincoln - $43,074
Lexus - $42,902
Infiniti - $42,334
Acura - $37,538
Volvo - $35,671

Source: http://blog.truecar.com/2010/10/15/luxe-brands-thriving-in-weak-economy/

Those are US numbers. Interestingly, Infiniti does a lot better in the US than they do in Canada; they're selling almost as much as Acura down there.

And I wouldn't say that Acura and Infiniti are worlds apart, but sure, Infiniti is selling a bit higher market. Infiniti is reaching down towards Acura with vehices like the EX and G25 though... Besides, I've always viewed Acura as a semi-luxury brand, like Volvo, VW (IMO), Buick, Lincoln and Saab too. Infiniti is somewhere in the middle of everything... better than the semi-premiums (Acura, Volvo, etc.) but not quite up there with the luxury brands (BMW, Lexus, M-B, etc.).

[Roy]

I'm late to the manufacturer debate party!  Will I be admonished for resurrecting?

Some opinion points to offer:
- agreed Inifiniti is identity crisis but who is to say that the sport/luxury compromise is a lack of identity; it's a valid niche point if you find MB overly luxo, BMW overly sporty.
- I think Lexus has put more effort into interior design and overall fit and finish.  Infiniti I think has more effort into sportiness; plus you can only increase the interior design and overall fit and finish of the JDM Skyline
- RDX is actually a separate platform from CR-V
- the CSX is cdn exclusive and really should be excluded from a NA sales perspective.  
- in terms of sales vs Acura, Inifiniti is absent in a v.large market segment: upscale mid-sized SUV/CUV.  As someone posted the MDX is doing very well.  FX is not a competitor here and is after a different market, which apparently is a smaller market than the MDX.  The QX is now simply too large and expensive to be a cross competitor here.
- M is more the competitor to the RL than the G.  Performance numbers are one thing but here the formulistic size is more a factor.  Think 5 series=E-Class=A6=M=RL; 3series=C-Class=A4=G=TL
- to be more robust Infiniti needs strong sales in more than just the G.  They are hoping the new M will be that light, but really from a market perspective, they should be after different fish: the need to steal MDX/X5/X3/Q7/Q5/GLK market share.  They probably think they are too late to the game and don't have anything readily available though?