Author Topic: $235,000 speeding ticket  (Read 13305 times)

Offline rrocket

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Re: $235,000 speeding ticket
« Reply #60 on: November 25, 2010, 02:16:31 am »

The police don't decide on the punishment, the courts do.


Not in Ontario. The stunt driving law allows the police to punish before a person goes to court.

Do you mean impounding before conviction? That is the most troubling part of the law.

Oh there's MUCH more troubling parts than that.  They can charge you with street racing without even seeing you do it..if they SUSPECT you were doing it.  That's even more troubling.  They determine, on the spot, whether you are guilty of not.

The Ontario traffic laws are weird, especially the tribunals. You guys should sort that out.

No..you seem to think gov't has all the answers.... ;D
How fast is my 911?  Supras sh*t on on me all the time...in reverse..with blown turbos  :( ...

Offline Shnak

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Re: $235,000 speeding ticket
« Reply #61 on: November 25, 2010, 08:35:03 am »
Long time (1-2 years) license suspension should be the main punishment for such cases; the easiest and cheapest way to take these people off the road. 15 days is not nearly enough. High fines are OK as well (20K+). Second offence should be jail time no questions asked.
In 15 days the guy can race again in his new ride.
Confiscating and selling the car doesn't do anything for public safety or personal punishment; the car can easily be replaced.

1-2 years? How about lifetime suspension? These folks shouldn't be driving ever again.

Offline The Mighty Duck

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Re: $235,000 speeding ticket
« Reply #62 on: November 25, 2010, 10:14:43 am »
Judging my the comments here, it sounds like a few of you haven't read the article at all. ::)

Quote
The Ferrari will be sold to a local dealer for $235,000, with 50 per cent of the proceeds going to a relative of the driver who was part owner with the driver but was not involved in the incident. The province will receive 20 per cent and the driver 30 per cent. Coleman said some of the sale money has to go back to the owners because they have bank loans to cover.

For starters, the "fine" (if you look at it in those terms) is $47,000. The car's owners are getting most of the money back from the sale.

More to the point, we're talking about seizing an item used to commit a crime. Some have described that crime as attempted murder in this thread.

I wonder, if I took a loaded gun into a shopping mall and fired indiscriminately, would anyone object when the police seized the gun from me?

Private property is all well and good. Quite right, it's essential to a well-functioning capitalist economy. But it's also a privilege. If you're not going to obey the laws of the land, then you forfeit your privilege of holding private property.

Slippery slope? Maybe. But we, as citizens, have a responsibility to keep our government in check through elections, and through recall procedures. Those predicting a doom-and-gloom scenario where the government indiscriminately seizes assets left, right, and centre conveniently forget that such a scenario is only possible if we're complacent about it.

Which, btw, seem to have worked pretty well in BC! ;)

Offline Dante

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Re: $235,000 speeding ticket
« Reply #63 on: November 25, 2010, 10:22:08 am »
Long time (1-2 years) license suspension should be the main punishment for such cases; the easiest and cheapest way to take these people off the road. 15 days is not nearly enough. High fines are OK as well (20K+). Second offence should be jail time no questions asked.
In 15 days the guy can race again in his new ride.
Confiscating and selling the car doesn't do anything for public safety or personal punishment; the car can easily be replaced.

1-2 years? How about lifetime suspension? These folks shouldn't be driving ever again.

1-2 years for the first offence. 1-2 years is enough to get them thinking about not doing it again.
Second should be jail and even a longer suspension (5-10 years?). Mandatory jail if they drive with suspended license.

We don't even put the condemned violent criminals in jail for life. Remember, they did not kill anyone (yet).

Offline Shnak

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Re: $235,000 speeding ticket
« Reply #64 on: November 25, 2010, 10:38:07 am »
Long time (1-2 years) license suspension should be the main punishment for such cases; the easiest and cheapest way to take these people off the road. 15 days is not nearly enough. High fines are OK as well (20K+). Second offence should be jail time no questions asked.
In 15 days the guy can race again in his new ride.
Confiscating and selling the car doesn't do anything for public safety or personal punishment; the car can easily be replaced.

1-2 years? How about lifetime suspension? These folks shouldn't be driving ever again.

1-2 years for the first offence. 1-2 years is enough to get them thinking about not doing it again.
Second should be jail and even a longer suspension (5-10 years?). Mandatory jail if they drive with suspended license.

We don't even put the condemned violent criminals in jail for life. Remember, they did not kill anyone (yet).


When you go 140kph OVER the speeding limit, you don't deserve a 2nd chance. Driving is a privilege, and driving at F-1 speeds in a residential area should see you give up that privilege for life. IMO, of course.

Offline safristi

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Re: $235,000 speeding ticket
« Reply #65 on: November 25, 2010, 12:20:51 pm »
as Gilbert & Sullivan said.............


LET THE PUNISHMENT FIT not FERRARI THE CRIME[/b]............



   it is obviously and transparent that this is BEE ESS @ its WORST.........


  get a decent lawyer and TRASH THE CASH GRAB............ :'( :popo: :'( :'( :popo: :'( :'( :popo: :popo: :'( :'( :'( :'( :banghead: :bang: :cp2: :cp2: :cp2:
Time is to stop everything happening at once

Offline dr_spock

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Re: $235,000 speeding ticket
« Reply #66 on: November 25, 2010, 06:09:00 pm »

If I buy a gun and recklessly shoot one of you, will you guys still let me keep the gun afterwards?  


Do tell what $225,000 gun you're thinking of shooting me with.... ::)

How about an early American Civil War gatlin gun?   They can auction between $170K and $250K.   :o



Any way, the point is there is no absolute property rights in Canada.  And if you used your property to harm others, chances are the Courts will take it away.


Offline blur911

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Re: $235,000 speeding ticket
« Reply #67 on: November 25, 2010, 07:05:52 pm »
Any way, the point is there is no absolute property rights in Canada.  And if you used your property to harm others, chances are the Courts will take it away.

I think the problem here is that nobody was actually harmed, but the property was stolen (confiscated) anyhow.
I realize they were driving like asshats, but there were no collisions, injuries or property damage.

Money grab and grandstanding for public approval, nothing more.  This member of the public does not like  :(
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Offline No H2O

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Re: $235,000 speeding ticket
« Reply #68 on: November 25, 2010, 07:15:59 pm »
...but there were no collisions, injuries or property damage.

But there could have been. Then what? "Sorry" ain't going to cut it. If I were the victim, could I name the penalty? I should be able to if I am the one pushing myself around in a wheelchair because of some idiots.

Having been to the track once now, there is no better place to take it. But you have to remember, street racers are only fast on the street...and in their own minds.  :rofl2:
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Offline Blue01

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Re: $235,000 speeding ticket
« Reply #69 on: November 25, 2010, 07:48:28 pm »
Any way, the point is there is no absolute property rights in Canada.  And if you used your property to harm others, chances are the Courts will take it away.

I think the problem here is that nobody was actually harmed, but the property was stolen (confiscated) anyhow.
I realize they were driving like asshats, but there were no collisions, injuries or property damage.

Money grab and grandstanding for public approval, nothing more.  This member of the public does not like  :(

So must we wait until a driver kills someone before their property is "stolen"?

As for suspending their licence for a lengthy time, this often does not solve the problem either.  You don't need a licence to drive.

Offline safristi

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Re: $235,000 speeding ticket
« Reply #70 on: November 25, 2010, 07:49:49 pm »
..COULD OF BEENS dont count in court yer HONOUR!!!!! ;D...i have a can of BEANS that could KILL SOMEONE.......... :think: :nono: :banghead:..wot appened is a Farce simple as that..........................no bogus handwringers NEED APPLY..... :-\
« Last Edit: November 25, 2010, 07:52:02 pm by safristi »

Offline rrocket

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Re: $235,000 speeding ticket
« Reply #71 on: November 25, 2010, 07:54:43 pm »
..COULD OF BEENS dont count in court yer HONOUR!!!!! ;D...i have a can of BEANS that could KILL SOMEONE.......... :think: :nono: :banghead:..wot appened is a Farce simple as that..........................no bogus handwringers NEED APPLY..... :-\

That's what people here are arguing..about the slippery slope when using the "could have" or "would have" arguments when seizing people's stuff.

« Last Edit: November 25, 2010, 08:04:16 pm by rrocket »

Offline safristi

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Re: $235,000 speeding ticket
« Reply #72 on: November 25, 2010, 07:57:50 pm »
..damn Rrocket U have gottit.........do U have a SMOKE to get us thru it...... :shuffle:......
« Last Edit: November 25, 2010, 08:00:26 pm by safristi »

Offline Sir Osis of Liver

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Re: $235,000 speeding ticket
« Reply #73 on: November 25, 2010, 08:47:53 pm »
..COULD OF BEENS dont count in court yer HONOUR!!!!! ;D...i have a can of BEANS that could KILL SOMEONE.......... :think: :nono: :banghead:..wot appened is a Farce simple as that..........................no bogus handwringers NEED APPLY..... :-\

That's what people here are arguing..about the slippery slope when using the "could have" or "would have" arguments when seizing people's stuff.



Like attempted murder? They didn't actually murder anyone after all.
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Offline safristi

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Re: $235,000 speeding ticket
« Reply #74 on: November 25, 2010, 08:55:33 pm »
POOR attempt at a ticketable offence yer HONOUR.......i thought i would break the speed barrier in Ontario by exceeding the SPEED of Sound ..aka 150KPH..... :rofl: :popo: :rofl2: :popo: :cp2: :drv2: :drive: :bang: :banghead: >:D :cp2: :fall: :bounce: :idea:

Offline rrocket

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Re: $235,000 speeding ticket
« Reply #75 on: November 25, 2010, 09:04:13 pm »
..COULD OF BEENS dont count in court yer HONOUR!!!!! ;D...i have a can of BEANS that could KILL SOMEONE.......... :think: :nono: :banghead:..wot appened is a Farce simple as that..........................no bogus handwringers NEED APPLY..... :-\

That's what people here are arguing..about the slippery slope when using the "could have" or "would have" arguments when seizing people's stuff.



Like attempted murder? They didn't actually murder anyone after all.

Different. But nice try.

Offline blur911

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Re: $235,000 speeding ticket
« Reply #76 on: November 25, 2010, 10:51:21 pm »
..COULD OF BEENS dont count in court yer HONOUR!!!!! ;D...i have a can of BEANS that could KILL SOMEONE.......... :think: :nono: :banghead:..wot appened is a Farce simple as that..........................no bogus handwringers NEED APPLY..... :-\

That's what people here are arguing..about the slippery slope when using the "could have" or "would have" arguments when seizing people's stuff.



Like attempted murder? They didn't actually murder anyone after all.

How about charging you with attempted murder if you say, tried really hard to telekinetic-ally blow up someone's head (a-la Scanners).  You never know, it could happen.

Mostly I think it will just make more people run from the cops and cause even more death and mayhem, and a few headlines about what expensive cars the police have "aquired" this week. 

But really, how many more speeders will now be running instead of pulling over? 

Where's Bikenut when you need him?  :rofl:

Offline Sir Osis of Liver

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Re: $235,000 speeding ticket
« Reply #77 on: November 25, 2010, 11:27:15 pm »
..COULD OF BEENS dont count in court yer HONOUR!!!!! ;D...i have a can of BEANS that could KILL SOMEONE.......... :think: :nono: :banghead:..wot appened is a Farce simple as that..........................no bogus handwringers NEED APPLY..... :-\

That's what people here are arguing..about the slippery slope when using the "could have" or "would have" arguments when seizing people's stuff.



Like attempted murder? They didn't actually murder anyone after all.

How about charging you with attempted murder if you say, tried really hard to telekinetic-ally blow up someone's head (a-la Scanners).  You never know, it could happen.

Mostly I think it will just make more people run from the cops and cause even more death and mayhem, and a few headlines about what expensive cars the police have "aquired" this week. 

But really, how many more speeders will now be running instead of pulling over? 

Where's Bikenut when you need him?  :rofl:


How many killed by telekinesis last year? How many in car accidents?

It's really very simple. Take it to the track, you keep your ride.

I doubt many more people will try running. Those that do are looking at steeper consequences than just losing their wheels. Especially if a death occurs.

Offline rrocket

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Re: $235,000 speeding ticket
« Reply #78 on: November 25, 2010, 11:55:23 pm »
..COULD OF BEENS dont count in court yer HONOUR!!!!! ;D...i have a can of BEANS that could KILL SOMEONE.......... :think: :nono: :banghead:..wot appened is a Farce simple as that..........................no bogus handwringers NEED APPLY..... :-\

That's what people here are arguing..about the slippery slope when using the "could have" or "would have" arguments when seizing people's stuff.



Like attempted murder? They didn't actually murder anyone after all.

How about charging you with attempted murder if you say, tried really hard to telekinetic-ally blow up someone's head (a-la Scanners).  You never know, it could happen.

Mostly I think it will just make more people run from the cops and cause even more death and mayhem, and a few headlines about what expensive cars the police have "aquired" this week. 

But really, how many more speeders will now be running instead of pulling over? 

Where's Bikenut when you need him?  :rofl:


How many killed by telekinesis last year? How many in car accidents?

It's really very simple. Take it to the track, you keep your ride.

I doubt many more people will try running. Those that do are looking at steeper consequences than just losing their wheels. Especially if a death occurs.

And most of those accidents weren't from speeding, or racing.......they were from drinking!!

So you approve of the gov't seizing and selling peoples cars if caught drinking and driving??  Afterall...number one motor vehicle killer is drinking and driving...Racing doesn't even rank, statistically...
« Last Edit: November 25, 2010, 11:57:15 pm by rrocket »

Offline Sir Osis of Liver

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Re: $235,000 speeding ticket
« Reply #79 on: November 26, 2010, 12:02:31 am »

So you approve of the gov't seizing and selling peoples cars if caught drinking and driving??  Afterall...number one motor vehicle killer is drinking and driving...Racing doesn't even rank, statistically...


Absolutely! I've always thought seizing and crushing the cars of drunk drivers would be much more effective than the current system of license suspension and the (remote) possibility of jail time.