Topic: This is why there aren't manuals offered in more trims on consumer level cars

[Shnak]

Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be the market for them.  However, if they were marketed better, maybe?  The North American public can be sold ANYTHING.  Look at television and listen to radio these days.  If car makers told everyone that they weren't cool unless they drove a stick, things might change.

I doubt it. For the most part, the only people who buy manual transmission are those who enjoy driving. And I'd wager upwards of 90% of those who drive cars do not enjoy it at all and only do it by necessity.

In the past, manual transmissions at least had the benefit of better fuel economy, but with today's automatic transmissions, that benefit is gone.

Dual-clutch auto transmission will be the closest thing to manual transmissions in a few years.

[sirAQUAMAN64]

In the Buick Regal Turbo, the automatic transmission is standard and the standard transmission is a no charge upgrade. Lol. I would welcome if most car manufacturers decided to make standards cost the same as automatics as long as it was still available.

You're welcome 

Makes sense to me that since it does cost money to offer both, and the take rate is low, that perhaps making them the same price (for the manufacturer to get some sort of profit for the effort) but at least offering them (for the consumer - mostly enthusiasts - if they prefer a manual) is a good compromise.

[Mitlov]

Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be the market for them.  However, if they were marketed better, maybe?  The North American public can be sold ANYTHING.  Look at television and listen to radio these days.  If car makers told everyone that they weren't cool unless they drove a stick, things might change.

I doubt it. For the most part, the only people who buy manual transmission are those who enjoy driving. And I'd wager upwards of 90% of those who drive cars do not enjoy it at all and only do it by necessity.

In the past, manual transmissions at least had the benefit of better fuel economy, but with today's automatic transmissions, that benefit is gone.

Dual-clutch auto transmission will be the closest thing to manual transmissions in a few years.

I think there's actually three segments where manual transmissions will survive: (1) lower-end performance cars (I think the AMG cars and the Ferraris of the world will all go to dual-clutches exclusively in the next decade), and (2) very inexpensive cars (in a Fit or a Yaris or a Fiesta, an automatic, not to mention a dual-clutch, can add nearly 10% to the price of the car, not to mention increased maintenance down the road.  Despite the loss of a couple MPG, manuals are still cheaper).  And (3) maybe they'll also stick around for serious off-roaders like the Wrangler. 

But except for those three niches, I expect manuals to essentially disappear from the market.

[tpl]

I agree that manuals will disappear apart from your category 3.    I suspect that dual clutch or even the rather neat single clutch ( but dual sided)  transmissions will become THE transmission with a tiny niche for true CVTs.  The "sporty cars" will have paddles, the bread and butter cars probably won't. The point I think is that the dual clutch transmission can do everything in one box...manual or automatic. I doubt that they will be more expensive than a conventional automatic for long.

 I think but don't know that there will be a space for slushbox transmissions left, maybe for heavy duty pickups where the fluidic gap between crank and axle would aid longevity.

[cono_sur]

I think the main reason is that you can't eat a Big Mac and talk on a cell phone at the same time with a manual...

Agree 100% with this.

[Shnak]

I think the main reason is that you can't eat a Big Mac and talk on a cell phone at the same time with a manual...

Yes you can. 

No kidding. That's what knees are for! I loved driving with my knees in my Accent. Tons of fun! 

[JSCC]

.....(1) lower-end performance cars (I think the AMG cars .....

None of MBs current AMGs offer manual transmission with the clutch pedal.

[TopGun]

.....
www.fueleconomy.gov
.....

The autos do well on rated mileage because the engineers tune them so they can market higher fuel economy.  Driving them in the real world in this mode might make it more economical...yet very sluggish.

"Thanks to electronically controlled transmissions and throttles, the drive mode is now typically programmed to maximize the numbers on the EPA test cycle"

http://autos.aol.com/article/automatic-transmission-better-fuel-economy/

People can buy whatever they like, I still see the convenience and "stop and go traffic" as a cop-out excuse.

[Mitlov]

.....(1) lower-end performance cars (I think the AMG cars .....

None of MBs current AMGs offer manual transmission with the clutch pedal.

I know.  When I mentioned AMG, I meant that I expected AMG cars to all switch over to dual-clutch transmissions from torque converter automatics, not from three-pedal manuals.

[JSCC]

.....(1) lower-end performance cars (I think the AMG cars .....

None of MBs current AMGs offer manual transmission with the clutch pedal.

I know.  When I mentioned AMG, I meant that I expected AMG cars to all switch over to dual-clutch transmissions from torque converter automatics, not from three-pedal manuals.

Oh, yes. That is well under progress.
Just if the engineers can figure how they can make them handle 700+ torque on the 65 AMGs.

[Jaeger]

Of all the cars I have owned, only one has been an auto - and that one had the shortest tenure ('98 Accord Coupe V6).

Still, my next car will likely have an auto simply because manual transmissions have all but disappeared from the segment in which I will be shopping - midsize sedans.

Even where the manual is technically offered as an option, it isn't necessarily readily available.  I was told by my VW dealer that to get a manual transmission in a Passat CC it's "special order only".  I put my money down and commit to purchase, then they order the car.  They do not keep any in stock.  Not the way I like to do business - particularly with a manual, I want to know exactly how the transmission feels BEFORE buying.  Oh, and to further dissuade me from taking that route, I was candidly informed that in the event I wanted to trade it in down the road, they simply wouldn't be interested in the car.  Most discouraging.

Similarly, for all the praise heaped on Buick for offering the Regal 2.0T with a manual transmission, I was told the same thing - they won't stock them, so forget about test driving one.  With money down, they'll special-order one for me.

Now the Sonata I have found on dealers lots with a stick.  Unfortunately, it's the VERY base model only and I have to admit to being spoiled by all the toys on my Altima.  And having driven the Sonata 2.0T, there's now way I'd opt for the normally aspirated engine when the turbo brings so much more horsepower to the table with such little penalty in fuel economy.  But the turbo is auto only regardless of trim level.

Most discouraging.  Just 4 years ago I was able to test drive, then purchase my Altima 3.5 SE - fully loaded - with a stick.  I may just end up keeping it a few more years because there really isn't much choice in a replacement.

Or maybe I'll take the Mitlovian path and grab a Civic SI while I still can. 

Jaeger

[TopGun]

.....
Most discouraging......
Or maybe I'll take the Mitlovian path and grab a Civic SI while I still can. 

Jaeger

Completely understand that feeling.  Makes it kinda hard to understand why many in "here" seem to be more than fine with what's happening.

[tpl]

I am sympathetic to your plight.    Having driven manual cars since the '60s and we still have a manual FIT I have to admit that my next car will probably be another DSG of some sort although I believe there is still hope for a Focus ST with  6MT but it may turn out to be a 6 DSG instead.

[Dante]

Makes it kinda hard to understand why many in "here" seem to be more than fine with what's happening.

Is there anything people in here can do to change the trend? Don't like it, but you have no choice but to accept it.

What concerns me more is that even the remaining M/T and the A/T and DCT in mainstream cars are tuned to maximize the fuel economy which makes them sluggish most of the time.

[tpl]

What concerns me more is that even the remaining M/T and the A/T and DCT in mainstream cars are tuned to maximize the fuel economy which makes them sluggish most of the time.

For that you can blame:
The people on this forum who bleat on about super fuel economy all the time.
The Government(s) and their obsession with Carbon.

My humble GTI DSC has a sport mode which tightens up throttle response and alters where the transmission changes gear, it does it rather badly as it happens. It is quite obvious that one can reprogram the transmission to do a good job of that, perhaps losing a little economy on the way but so what... add a 10cent switch to panel.   Don't Ferraris with DCT trannies do that now?

[Dante]

Yeah, I can't stand this at all. Unfortunately, again, it's the fashion these days and can't do much about it.
I can only hope Ford will be sensitive about this and will not completely mess up the powertrain tuning in the new Focus (kind of like they did with the Fiesta).

[sirAQUAMAN64]

Of all the cars I have owned, only one has been an auto - and that one had the shortest tenure ('98 Accord Coupe V6).

Still, my next car will likely have an auto simply because manual transmissions have all but disappeared from the segment in which I will be shopping - midsize sedans.

Even where the manual is technically offered as an option, it isn't necessarily readily available.  I was told by my VW dealer that to get a manual transmission in a Passat CC it's "special order only".  I put my money down and commit to purchase, then they order the car.  They do not keep any in stock.  Not the way I like to do business - particularly with a manual, I want to know exactly how the transmission feels BEFORE buying.  Oh, and to further dissuade me from taking that route, I was candidly informed that in the event I wanted to trade it in down the road, they simply wouldn't be interested in the car.  Most discouraging.

Similarly, for all the praise heaped on Buick for offering the Regal 2.0T with a manual transmission, I was told the same thing - they won't stock them, so forget about test driving one.  With money down, they'll special-order one for me.

Definitely more difficult to find for test drives. But since you're in the GTA, Georgetown VW is displaying 3 CC manuals (2 Sportlines, 1 Highline) in dealer inventory online.

Also, there are a handful of dealers that will be stocking Regal Turbo manuals, Applewood and Addison in Mississuaga are examples.

[Jaeger]

^^ Thanks for that info.

Jaeger

[libraman]

This is the case only in North America where we are suckered into paying 1000-2000 more for a slushbox. Elsewhere, the converse is probably true. I bet a major reason the sales numbers are as they are is that automatics are sitting on the dealers' lots....so that is what people buy.

In many other countries, when you buy a car you order it and it is made for you. You count on waiting some weeks for your vehicle to be ready.  Here in NA, the salesperson goes all out trying to move product off the lot...probably significantly contributing to the auto/manual numbers.

Most people in NA have no exposure to manuals...so they do not know how to drive them. It is not that they do not want a manual.  Those that do drive manuals, however, usually do not want to drive an automatic.

[dkaz]

Put a $1,000 deposit down, they'll order it for you, you test drive, if you don't like, you don't buy and get your deposit back. That's what Hyundai told me about getting a manual Sonata.

My boss has a VW Passat CC manual... he loves it!