Topic: This is why there aren't manuals offered in more trims on consumer level cars

[safristi]

Dexer there are snobs that drive knobs,and snobs that drive no-knobs,and non snobs that drive knobs and and non snobs that drive no knobs and knobs that are just knobs and knobs on the dash and knobs on the floor so although i see where yer CLUTCHING at straws let the knob shifters off with a heel and toe or ill take a Knobkierrie to yer foe.....................    ever tried a Lotus Elan TRIGGER SWITCH clutch!!!!!

yes... in London traffic no less.

...........................

     so prancing down PALL MALL beats DUNDAS STREET in Winter driving wifey ta work downtown TEE OOH!!! in the Elan and dodging street cars and the tramlines.................and NON MULTICULTURAL EXPLETIVES!!!!. ........................Oh and we lived in a Pothole inna middle of Davenport road.....

[TopGun]

.....
I could care less about all this exclusive club, impress others, snob, superior et al "obsessions". To me, this is totally irrelevant to the driving experience.
.....

The snobery might come from the perception that we actually believe there IS a driving experience.  I'm sure we've all got the eye roll from our non-car-enthusiast friends when we get into it...you know...the old "All I care about is going from A to B" people.

That said, I see nothing wrong with feeling proud of having and enjoying skills that are a little bit unique...whatever skills those might be.

[dr_spock]

It is never too late to learn to drive manual.  Learning is life long journey.  It shouldn't stop after getting one's license.

[Ice]

I'd love to learn how to drive a manual car. I've only ever come across two actually and neither were run of the mill cars so the owners were loathe to let someone else try it... nevermind a total manual transmission rookie. But I know that I'd rather buy a DSG equipped car next time. Actually that makes a lot of sense really ... Manufacturers can build one transmission and offer both options although it wouldn't be quite the same experience.

[gotak]

I drive a manual car now and while it's nice I am of the opinion that there's nothing wrong with automatics.

I think in the future we'll all be on auto. It's just a matter of time now they are adding more and more gears. With things like DSG we already see situations where the automatic is faster than the manual. It might be sad to say bye but you know it's not all bad.

[dkaz]

If you were in BC I'd volunteer to teach you to drive stick. I've taught six in my lifetime... only one burned out clutch.

[Mitlov]

I think in the future we'll all be on auto. It's just a matter of time now they are adding more and more gears.

You could have more than six gears if the shift mechanism was set up, not in an H-pattern, but in a sequential way like a motorcycle's gearbox (clutch in then tap backward to upshift, tap forward to downshift, and clutch back out).

Personally, though, I've never felt in the Civic Si that that car would be better off with more gears.  Six does seem to be a magic number.

[aaronk]

After browsing this thread, it is my new goal to teach all my auto-only friends how to drive stick. If there is enough of us out there, and our numbers multiply, they will continue to build them!

Notice also that this low number of manual car purchases are also relative to the fact that a large majority of people buy boring cars like Corollas, Camry's, Civics and Accords. If you start to look at fun cars, like Subaru's new WRS STI that is currently sold manual-only, a much higher percentage would have the 3-pedal option checked. Sure the mainstream will move towards auto-only, but there will always be a place for people who have the mental and physical fortitude to shift their own gears and prefer to tell their car how to drive, not the other way around.

PS - North America isn't the only place in the world where cars are sold, and North America is about the only place you'd find 6% of the population driving manuals.

[gotak]

I think in the future we'll all be on auto. It's just a matter of time now they are adding more and more gears.

You could have more than six gears if the shift mechanism was set up, not in an H-pattern, but in a sequential way like a motorcycle's gearbox (clutch in then tap backward to upshift, tap forward to downshift, and clutch back out).

Personally, though, I've never felt in the Civic Si that that car would be better off with more gears.  Six does seem to be a magic number.

Yes but then why not just have a DSG box and be without the clutch all together? Most tiptronic are like that anyhow the up and down.

[Mitlov]

I think in the future we'll all be on auto. It's just a matter of time now they are adding more and more gears.

You could have more than six gears if the shift mechanism was set up, not in an H-pattern, but in a sequential way like a motorcycle's gearbox (clutch in then tap backward to upshift, tap forward to downshift, and clutch back out).

Personally, though, I've never felt in the Civic Si that that car would be better off with more gears.  Six does seem to be a magic number.

Yes but then why not just have a DSG box and be without the clutch all together? Most tiptronic are like that anyhow the up and down.

Because the clutch is much of the fun of driving a manual.  It's where the connection to the engine is felt most.

[TopGun]

Because the clutch is much of the fun of driving a manual.  It's where the connection to the engine is felt most.

Mitlov beat me to it!

The clutch also makes it a pain, less efficient...sounds like fun!

[tpl]

I think in the future we'll all be on auto. It's just a matter of time now they are adding more and more gears.

You could have more than six gears if the shift mechanism was set up, not in an H-pattern, but in a sequential way like a motorcycle's gearbox (clutch in then tap backward to upshift, tap forward to downshift, and clutch back out).

Personally, though, I've never felt in the Civic Si that that car would be better off with more gears.  Six does seem to be a magic number.

Indeed six should be enough for a non-race engine.   The DSG does this well but imho it needs the neutral to be in the DSG AND the reverse.   On the VW DSG you have to move out of manual mode and then into neutral and reverse like an old fashioned automatic. It would be better to have those in the plane of the up down shift although I guess they'd need a) a button for reverse and b) software to allow the dsg to go from neutral to 1st adjusting the rpm to match. Right now if you go  into neutral while moving  it can damage the transmission if you try to go back into gear.

[gotak]

I think in the future we'll all be on auto. It's just a matter of time now they are adding more and more gears.

You could have more than six gears if the shift mechanism was set up, not in an H-pattern, but in a sequential way like a motorcycle's gearbox (clutch in then tap backward to upshift, tap forward to downshift, and clutch back out).

Personally, though, I've never felt in the Civic Si that that car would be better off with more gears.  Six does seem to be a magic number.

Indeed six should be enough for a non-race engine.   The DSG does this well but imho it needs the neutral to be in the DSG AND the reverse.   On the VW DSG you have to move out of manual mode and then into neutral and reverse like an old fashioned automatic. It would be better to have those in the plane of the up down shift although I guess they'd need a) a button for reverse and b) software to allow the dsg to go from neutral to 1st adjusting the rpm to match. Right now if you go  into neutral while moving  it can damage the transmission if you try to go back into gear.

I know he never said it but: "640k should be enough memory for anyone...".

[Mitlov]

I think in the future we'll all be on auto. It's just a matter of time now they are adding more and more gears.

You could have more than six gears if the shift mechanism was set up, not in an H-pattern, but in a sequential way like a motorcycle's gearbox (clutch in then tap backward to upshift, tap forward to downshift, and clutch back out).

Personally, though, I've never felt in the Civic Si that that car would be better off with more gears.  Six does seem to be a magic number.

Indeed six should be enough for a non-race engine.   The DSG does this well but imho it needs the neutral to be in the DSG AND the reverse.   On the VW DSG you have to move out of manual mode and then into neutral and reverse like an old fashioned automatic. It would be better to have those in the plane of the up down shift although I guess they'd need a) a button for reverse and b) software to allow the dsg to go from neutral to 1st adjusting the rpm to match. Right now if you go  into neutral while moving  it can damage the transmission if you try to go back into gear.

I know he never said it but: "640k should be enough memory for anyone...".

There's no downside to more memory (besides cost).  With gears, more gears = more time shifting and less time with an engine-to-wheel connection.  More is not necessarily better because you're spending all your time shifting.  I think six gears is a great balance of always having a good ratio while not spending too much time shifting. 

The computer memory issue isn't comparable at all because there's not the italicized consideration.

[gotak]

I think in the future we'll all be on auto. It's just a matter of time now they are adding more and more gears.

You could have more than six gears if the shift mechanism was set up, not in an H-pattern, but in a sequential way like a motorcycle's gearbox (clutch in then tap backward to upshift, tap forward to downshift, and clutch back out).

Personally, though, I've never felt in the Civic Si that that car would be better off with more gears.  Six does seem to be a magic number.

Indeed six should be enough for a non-race engine.   The DSG does this well but imho it needs the neutral to be in the DSG AND the reverse.   On the VW DSG you have to move out of manual mode and then into neutral and reverse like an old fashioned automatic. It would be better to have those in the plane of the up down shift although I guess they'd need a) a button for reverse and b) software to allow the dsg to go from neutral to 1st adjusting the rpm to match. Right now if you go  into neutral while moving  it can damage the transmission if you try to go back into gear.

I know he never said it but: "640k should be enough memory for anyone...".

There's no downside to more memory (besides cost).  With gears, more gears = more time shifting and less time with an engine-to-wheel connection.  More is not necessarily better because you're spending all your time shifting.  I think six gears is a great balance of always having a good ratio while not spending too much time shifting. 

The computer memory issue isn't comparable at all because there's not the italicized consideration.

Considering the speed of a DSG shift I doubt anyone can find performance degradation from more gears. I mean audi's already at 7 gear. How far away is 8?

[tpl]

8 is probably undergoing durability testing in a VAG lab somewhere in Germany. I can imagine an 8 speed dsg for getting the best results from, for instance, a 1 litre Golf GTI or a diesel with a very narrow powerband.    I bet it would be just like a CVT but without any strange engine noises.

[safristi]

....how does one get a job as a tester in a VAG Lab.......................

[dr_spock]

The more complicated the transmission, the more things that can break.   It could be nasty in an out of warranty situation.

There is nothing like getting the manual shifting just right.  It feels good, IMO 

[5 Wheel Drive]

"There is nothing like getting the manual shifting just right.  It feels good, IMO  "