Topic: Motor Trend Car of the Year Is.....

[sirAQUAMAN64]

The Volt isn't even a 2011, it will hopefully be launched as a 2012.

I've yet to see a production version of the car, it's been a few years now they talk about it.  To me the Volt is vapourware until they actually launch the damn thing.

There is a 2011MY Volt currently being assembled for US consumption, the Canadian launch lags a bit. Same story with the Leaf - it'll be offered in the US but Canadian sales from what I understand are scheduled to start nearly 6 months later than Volt Canadian sales.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

GM dealers tell Detroit Free Press: Chevy Volt production has started
GM dealers: Chevy Volt production has started

CHRISSIE THOMPSON
FREE PRESS BUSINESS WRITER

Chevrolet Volt production for customers is underway at General Motors’ Detroit-Hamtramck plant, GM dealers told the Free Press, putting customers one step closer to receiving the first mass-marketed plug-in vehicle for the U.S.

GM's vehicle tracking system says the first Volt extended-range electric vehicle allocated to Puente Hills Chevrolet near Los Angeles was finished on Nov. 9, said Joe McNatt, the dealership’s customer relations and inventory manager. That Volt was purchased through the store’s fleet department, McNatt said.

And the tracking system says the first Volt due to Henna Chevrolet in Austin, Texas, was finished on Nov. 10, said Craig Martinez, the store’s new car sales manager. His store held a drawing to choose the first customer from a waiting list, and the winner fit the profile of a “green” driver.

“The main customer is going to be those engineer, technically savvy types of people,” Martinez said. But that fits with Austin’s hip reputation. “You know, ‘Keep Austin weird.’”

GM spokesman Chris Lee declined to say whether Detroit-Hamtramck is building Volts for customers to purchase. The plant has been building pre-production Volts for months for testing.

GM had said official production would start this month, and it's on schedule, Lee said. The automaker has yet to ship any Volts from the plant, but customers should get the first Volts in early December, he said.

GM's tracking system shows delivery is the next step for the Volts for both Puente Hills Chevrolet and Henna Chevrolet, but neither car has received a target delivery date. Sales managers at other dealerships said production dates for their first Volts are scheduled throughout November and December.

Current Volt production is for customers in California, Austin, New York City and Washington, D.C. This spring, GM plans to expand sales to Michigan, Connecticut, New Jersey and the rest of New York and Texas.

The Volt runs on battery power for 25 to 50 miles before using a gasoline-powered generator.

Contact Chrissie Thompson: 313-222-8784 or cthompson@freepress.com



Read more: GM dealers: Chevy Volt production has started | freep.com | Detroit Free Press

http://www.freep.com/article/20101116/BUSINESS01/101116002/GM-dealers-Chevy-Volt-production-has-started#ixzz15SLerA76

It is in production, with deliveries to start in December. It's a 2011, and the MT and Automobile awards are for 2011 model year cars, so I don't see the problem.

[wing]

I guess I'm just skeptical because so far the volt just seems like a non existent vehicle to me.   I've seen more real press on the leaf.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

I guess I'm just skeptical because so far the volt just seems like a non existent vehicle to me.   I've seen more real press on the leaf.

You've been dealing with our resident cynics too often and it's rubbing off on you!

If it makes you feel better, this fellow has a picture of the car he ordered:

http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?5554-LIVE-My-Car-On-The-Assembly-Line-11-8-10

[wing]

Thinks this will win Canadian car of the year in 2012?

[EV Dan]

I guess I'm just skeptical because so far the volt just seems like a non existent vehicle to me.   I've seen more real press on the leaf.

And not only that, Armstrong has been driving his Leaf for over a month now... Is there a single production Volt sold/ given to a real customer?
I have no doubts it will sell eventually, it just appears GM is afraid of consumer reaction when they get their first hybrids full of both electric and fossil bugs 

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2010/09/lance-armstrong-twitter-nissan-leaf-electric-car-photo.php

[safristi]

..I am up for TIME man of the year...........2015.... .......re VOLTING as it may seem.


     VOTE EARLY & OFTEN must be MOTAAH TRENDYs mission statement.......

[TopGun]

.....

If it makes you feel better, this fellow has a picture of the car he ordered:

http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?5554-LIVE-My-Car-On-The-Assembly-Line-11-8-10

I'll save the Artic's the trouble - Sir O, do you have a picture of that picture being taken?  And I don't think Jeffrey XXXXX is his real name!   

[Leviathan]

I guess I'm just skeptical because so far the volt just seems like a non existent vehicle to me.   I've seen more real press on the leaf.

You've been dealing with our resident cynics too often and it's rubbing off on you!

If it makes you feel better, this fellow has a picture of the car he ordered:

http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?5554-LIVE-My-Car-On-The-Assembly-Line-11-8-10

Ya, the Volt is being built for paying customers now. The IPO dog + pony show only delayed the Job 1 ceremony by a few weeks.

[G0dspd]

I'll save the Artic's the trouble - Sir O, do you have a picture of that picture being taken?  And I don't think Jeffrey XXXXX is his real name!  

 

[Leviathan]

I guess I'm just skeptical because so far the volt just seems like a non existent vehicle to me.   I've seen more real press on the leaf.

Is there a single production Volt sold/ given to a real customer?

GM gave use of production Volts to 15 people that make up a consumer advisory board. Read about one of Lyle Dennis' days here The Day I Didn’t Charge My Chevy Volt Getting More than 40 MPG Was Easy

[rrocket]

Magazines are put together 2-3 months in advance IIRC.  Wonder if this was before some of the fibs about the Volt came to light?


The PT Cruiser was the MOST questionable car in that group.  In that same year two of the first hybrid cars EVER available to the public were offered (Insight, Prius).  Hmmm...in years''s past when an import car won, the slappies here were saying the award was "bought and paid for".  You guys are pretty quiet this year, huh?   

In the end, I won't really argue with the choice of the Volt since the by-line for this award has been "The Most Significant New Car Introduction".  The only car as significant (or moreso depending on point of view) is the Leaf.  So either of those could win.  And I wouldn't complain with either.

[TopGun]

Magazines are put together 2-3 months in advance IIRC.  Wonder if this was before some of the fibs about the Volt came to light?

....

I don't think so.  And even if it did, it only served to well this was designed.  The December issue of Motor Trend (previous to the issue awarding the Volt the Car of the Year) contained this piece by MTs tech guy Frank Markus:

The Volt’s Gas Engine DOES Turn the Wheels. Sometimes.
October 12, 2010

On paper, the Voltec drivetrain has more in common with a Prius..... But the way Chevy connects them is entirely different, and—if you ask me—superior.

Chevrolet’s approach permits full EV capability over 30-40 real-world miles—something Toyota will never be able to claim with its current Hybrid Synergy Drive system. As such, it represents a bridge between the gasoline present and the electro-commuter future.

http://www.motortrend.com/features/editorial/1010_unbolting_the_chevy_volt_to_see_how_it_ticks/index.html

[Erik]

Magazines are put together 2-3 months in advance IIRC.  Wonder if this was before some of the fibs about the Volt came to light?


The PT Cruiser was the MOST questionable car in that group.  In that same year two of the first hybrid cars EVER available to the public were offered (Insight, Prius).  Hmmm...in years''s past when an import car won, the slappies here were saying the award was "bought and paid for".  You guys are pretty quiet this year, huh?   

In the end, I won't really argue with the choice of the Volt since the by-line for this award has been "The Most Significant New Car Introduction".  The only car as significant (or moreso depending on point of view) is the Leaf.  So either of those could win.  And I wouldn't complain with either.

What is so significant about the Leaf? Basically an upgraded version of a car GM had on the roads (and then stupidly off) a decade back. Lots of improved technology, but certainly no breakthroughs.

[rrocket]

It's the first mass market, affordable, pure electric car available for sale to everyone in the USA.

That's a significant new car introduction.

And you'll note that MOST of the cars on the COTY list have no significant tech breakthrough (or breakthrough in real terms), yet are very significant for other reasons.

Stop hatin'.....

[G35X]

I think the Volt deserves the COTY award because it is the first car that brought the plug-in hybrid concept to reality.

However, is the Volt system better than Toyota’s synergy system?  I do not think so. They are essentially same:

Both systems have three power sources; an ICE and two motors, each of which theoretically can propel the vehicle alone or any combination thereof mechanically. Their differences are:
1)Power of ICE… 85HP (Volt) vs. 98 (Prius)
2)Power of main electric motor… 149HP (Volt) vs. 84HP (Prius)
3)Energy capacity of battery… 16kWh (Volt) vs. 1.3kWh (Prius)   

The Volt is driven mostly by the motor, while the Prius uses the ICE most of the time with assistance by the motor for a short period of time (even shorter time for battery-only drive).  If you increase the energy capacity of Prius’ battery and make the main motor more powerful, you can have longer battery-only drive range and faster speed.  On the other hand, if you reduce the battery capacity of the Volt, you have shorter battery-only drive range but much lighter vehicle, thereby requiring less powerful main motor.  All in all, if both cars have the same battery capacity and the same ICE and motor power, their performance is just about same.

Now, the mechanical differences… 
Volt’s main motor drives the sun gear of the planetary gear set, whose planet gear carrier drives the wheels.  This requires the ring gear to be grounded when in battery-only drive mode. The motor drives the sun gear, which in turn drives the planet gears and their carrier. The max speed of the motor (induction type) is proportional to the frequency of the inverter and you can increase it to so much because of increase in loss in the associated circuit and the motor itself.  GM said the max speed is 6500rpm.  Suppose at this rpm the car goes 100km/h and you want increase the speed to 110km/h, you have to cut the ring gear off from the ground and drive it with the second source of power, i.e. the motor/generator operating in motor mode. Thence, the clutch between the ground and the ring gear, and between the ring gear and motor/generator. The motor/generator can get the power from the battery if battery has enough reserve power. If not, ICE kicks in and drives the ring gear. (ICE output shaft is concentric to the motor/generator shaft.) This action makes the Volt a parallel hybrid.   The arrangement also requires a third clutch between ICE and motor/generator.  When in serial mode, the ring gear is grounded, the clutch between the ring gear and motor/generator disengages and the clutch between ICE and motor/generator engages so that generator can supply electrical power to battery and the main motor.  This ring gear assist can occur even before the main motor reaches 6500rpm depending on the load.

The Prius system can do all the above functions (EV, ICE only, ICE+motor, ICE+motor+generator) without requiring clutches. 
Note: with the Volt system ICE only mode is mechanically possible by grounding the sun gear (main motor), but is not available in the present form. Which of the following systems do you think is more efficient?

- ICE>gears>wheels
- ICE>generator>inverter electronics>motor>wheels

[G0dspd]

The PT Cruiser was the MOST questionable car in that group.  In that same year two of the first hybrid cars EVER available to the public were offered (Insight, Prius).

Some cars may seem questionable today but back in 2001 things were different.  Back then, the PT Cruiser had that whole retro thing going for it and extreme fuel economy wasn't a big priority for most buyers.  The Insight and the Prius (1st gen ... yisshh) were specialty vehicles and some even considered them a passing fade.  In 10-15 years, maybe will ask ourselves why vehicles like the Honda FCX Clarity never made the list (if we ever develop the technology and a decent network).

I remember a big fuss about the new Malibu (1997) but I can't remember why.  Maybe Chevy paid for it.   

[Leviathan]

However, is the Volt system better than Toyota’s synergy system?  I do not think so. They are essentially same:

Can you go 40-80kms straight (per charge) without using any gas in a Prius? I could go 2 days to/from the office on one Volt charge (less than $1 worth) which would eliminate ~8L (about $9) of current gas usage.

[rrocket]

Can you go 40-80kms straight (per charge) without using any gas in a Prius? I could go 2 days to/from the office on one Volt charge (less than $1 worth) which would eliminate ~8L (about $9) of current gas usage.

Your math seems wrong (or incomplete).  The range of the Volt you're quoting (on a charge) is 80kms, and that's how far your 2 day commute is without re-charging (give or take), that would only require about 3.75L of gas in a Prius.  Or about $3.85 at current gas prices.

~8L in a Prius will get you about 170kms (or so).

Were you meaning to say that you'd save about $9 a week??



Anyways, since you're in "look at me, I'm saving money/gas!" mode, I thought I'd throw a few numbers your way.

A 2010 Prius cost $27,800+tax for a total of: $31,414 (that's full retail..you can get them cheaper and Toyota is offering $3,000 cash back right now.  But I'll do full retail to help the Volt out.  )

A 2011 Volt cost  $45,000+tax for a total of: $50,850. I think I'm being generous on the Canadian MSRP.  I think it will be higher still.  Anyways, assuming it's eligible for the tax credit here, that's $7,500 (after tax BTW).  So a total of $43,350 in your driveway. (For simplicity sake, I didn't include delivery on either since it's unknown what the Volt delivery will be).

Assuming you drive 20,000kms per year (you may drive more or less), and you NEVER buy gas for the Volt (best case scenario) and using your ~80km range (near best case scenario) that means you'd need 250 charges @ about $1 a charge. Total: $250. I'm not including the cost of the quick charger which could add a few thousand amortized over the life of the car.

In the Prius we drive the same 20,000kms per year at the combined 50 US MPG (4.7L/100km..yes, I know the Prius is rated at 3.85L/100km combined in Canada.  But I'm helping the Volt out.  )  So that means we'd burn ~940 liters of fuel @ $1.05 per liter. Total:  $987

So based on the yearly fuel costs, the Volt has a net advantage of $737 per year.  Not too shabby IMO.  BUT once we factor in the price differential in vehicles ($43,350 - $31,414) you are left with $11,396. in the hole.

Divide that number by your yearly fuel savings ($11,396/$737) and it will take you 16.2 years to break even with the Volt vs the Prius. I'm assuming you want to give the Prius owner the middle finger because you're more frugal than they are using your better technology, so let's add close to another year so you come out ahead in terms of dollars.  17 years.  Oh yea..anytime you drive using the gas engine (range extender) that yearly number goes up because the Prius easily trumps the Volt in fuel mileage.

So yea..the Volt's technology is pretty neat-o.  It just sucks you'll need to wait 17 years to realize the savings/benefits of that.  And while I'm generally not one to poke at people for choosing a more expensive engine option (in this case the Volts), once you start boasting about fuel savings cost be prepared for some a$$hole (in this case me) to lay the numbers out for you.

Now it is close to 5 am and I'm concentrating on an Oliva G cigar more than these numbers, so please point out if I've made any errors.  It's entirely (and likely) I've made some.  And yes...even comparing the Prius to a Corolla would put the Prius in a similar upside down position.  But in this case I'm comparing hybrid to hybrid, so I don't think the comparison is unwarranted.  Afterall, GM themselves has used the Prius several times as a comparison when talking about the Volt.

[Ex-airbalancer]

4.7 is a pretty good number to use, after 39,000 km we are at 4.9
Depending on your route you could get to low of 4 no problem
Only once did I get 3.9
I look at using the Prius the same as getting a high eff furnace
you can get 80% for a g, and a 97% is 2 gs
The difference will probably be almost 10-15 year to break even
Most people would think your crazy to go with the 80% furnace