Author Topic: First Drive: 2011 Chrysler 200  (Read 27357 times)

Offline Bubba

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Re: First Drive: 2011 Chrysler 200
« Reply #60 on: November 16, 2010, 10:13:44 pm »
From Car and Driver:
"For what is basically a rushed fluff-and-buff of a subpar product, the 200 shows how cleverly Chrysler has deployed its resources these past 12 months. For a fraction of the cost of a new car, it has transformed the Sebring from a joke to a decent-handling, compact mid-size car for those who prefer luxury trappings to sporty pretensions. If this is what the new Chrysler can do with one year, we can’t wait to see what it can do with four."

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/car/10q4/2011_chrysler_200-first_drive_review
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Offline Erik

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Re: First Drive: 2011 Chrysler 200
« Reply #61 on: November 16, 2010, 10:28:52 pm »
Nice read. Thanks for posting it.
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Offline Erik

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Re: First Drive: 2011 Chrysler 200
« Reply #62 on: November 16, 2010, 10:31:03 pm »

Just the Facts

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Re: First Drive: 2011 Chrysler 200
« Reply #63 on: November 17, 2010, 11:58:25 am »
Critics suggest reeling Chrysler is a lost cause

Even by the standards of battered automakers, Chrysler is in dire shape. Its sales in last December were down a stunning 53 percent, far worse than Ford or General Motors, and analysts say it probably won’t survive the year as an independent company — despite billions in government loans and the possibility of more.

Things were so bad last year that a single Toyota model, the Camry/Solara midsize car, outsold the entire fleet of Chrysler LLC’s passenger cars.

“Basically they’re done,” said Aaron Bragman, an auto analyst with the consulting company IHS Global Insight in Troy, Mich. “There is no real possibility of turning this thing around as an independent company in my opinion.”

Chrysler spokeswoman Shawn Morgan said she could not provide an immediate comment after requests Tuesday and Wednesday.

U.S. sales of Chrysler, Dodge and Jeep brand vehicles fell 30 percent last year, the worst decline of any major automaker. It lost more market share than any of its peers, down to 11 percent. Analysts say most of Chrysler’s products, especially its cars, don’t look, feel or drive as well as the competition’s.

Many analysts predict that Chrysler will be acquired by another automaker or sold in pieces by its majority owner, New York private equity firm Cerberus Capital Management.

Chrysler’s chief financial officer has said the company needs $7 billion every 45 days to pay parts suppliers, and analysts question whether the company’s meager sales are generating enough cash to make those payments.

Nissan Motor Co. could be interested in buying Chrysler’s truck business. Chrysler is already signed up to make pickup trucks for the Japanese company.

Jonathan Macey, a Yale University law professor who has been critical of U.S. automakers’ management, said Chrysler’s sales numbers are “further evidence of an unviable entity.”

Macey said giving the carmakers any money is burning cash. “I’m a big fan of not throwing good money after bad,” he said. “The idea that you would enter into a financing relationship like this without any parameters is more evidence of the complete insanity of all this.”

A Treasury Department spokeswoman noted that the agreement for the government’s automaker loans required that the administration designate someone to keep analyzing the companies’ finances and viability.


To get the loans, GM and Chrysler had to agree to negotiate concessions from creditors and the United Auto Workers union, but the specifics have yet to be worked out. The government can call in the loans March 31.

Chrysler CEO Robert Nardelli, in a presentation to the Senate Banking Committee last month, said the company could stay alive in the long term with reasonable concessions, a $7 billion bridge loan and $6 billion more out of the $25 billion Congress allocated to develop new fuel-efficient technology.

The Bush administration provided a $4 billion loan. Now, Chrysler is counting on an additional $3 billion in aid for its financing arm, Chrysler Financial.

Some lawmakers say automakers need time to wring out the concessions, and point out that the recession and nearly frozen credit markets are at least partly to blame for poor sales.

“You could make a car that could run on air or could fly and people wouldn’t buy it,” said Senate Banking Chairman Christopher Dodd, D-Conn. “I’m hoping that we may see some of that investor consumer confidence come back.”

Chrysler, based in Auburn Hills, Mich., and Ford Motor Co., in nearby Dearborn, are also waiting on a decision from the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. on whether they can become industrial loan corporations. That would mean the government could guarantee their debt, making it more appealing to investors, whose cash Chrysler could use to make more car loans at better terms.

Some lawmakers have noted that foreign automakers, including Japan’s Toyota Motor Corp. and Germany’s BMW AG, have the industrial banks, placing the domestic auto industry at a disadvantage.

Sen. Carl Levin, D-Mich., whose state is home to Chrysler, GM and Ford, said much will depend on how the Obama administration executes the terms of the auto bailout.

In his presentation to Congress, Nardelli used charts that showed Chrysler could post an operating profit of $400 million this year if Americans buy about 11 million light vehicles overall. But in this economy, analysts predict the figure will come in smaller.


 

Offline Bubba

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Re: First Drive: 2011 Chrysler 200
« Reply #64 on: November 17, 2010, 12:57:34 pm »
Critics suggest reeling Chrysler is a lost cause

Source?  Link?

This thread is about the car, not the company.

Offline PJungnitsch

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Re: First Drive: 2011 Chrysler 200
« Reply #65 on: November 17, 2010, 01:16:25 pm »
Nardelli? Bush Administration?

Just how old is that article?

Offline TopGun

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Re: First Drive: 2011 Chrysler 200
« Reply #66 on: November 17, 2010, 01:25:06 pm »
"The harsh, Rubbermaid-style plastics of the Sebring have been nearly banished completely in favor of high-quality leather seats and soft-touch materials on the dash and door panels. The change is downright amazing and makes the 200 a perfectly acceptable contender instead of an also-ran."

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/11/16/first-drive-2011-chrysler-200/


Oh and speaking of Chrysler...here's a Viper burnout "for the ages" describes AutoBlog.  Smoke 'em while you got 'em!

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/11/17/video-viper-burnout-vid-one-for-the-ages/#continued

Offline bridgecity

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Re: First Drive: 2011 Chrysler 200
« Reply #67 on: November 17, 2010, 03:13:08 pm »
Nardelli? Bush Administration?

Just how old is that article?

I was wondering the same thing.  No mention of Fiat anywhere.
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Re: First Drive: 2011 Chrysler 200
« Reply #68 on: November 17, 2010, 04:33:39 pm »
Critics suggest reeling Chrysler is a lost cause

Source?  Link?

This thread is about the car, not the company.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28547537/ns/business-autos

Published January 9, 2009...it's nearly two years old.  So not only does it not discuss the 200 (which didn't exist then), but it has no information about the new Grand Cherokee and the remarkably-improved Journey, Avenger, minivans, etc.

I think what Chrysler is in the middle of right now is what Hyundai did around 2006.  Not a leap to the top of the heap--it took a few more years until Hyundai was staring to vie for best-in-segment on some cars--but a huge leap from "awful" to "perfectly decent."
« Last Edit: November 17, 2010, 04:35:45 pm by Mitlov »

CatsEye68

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Re: First Drive: 2011 Chrysler 200
« Reply #69 on: November 17, 2010, 07:29:28 pm »
Published January 9, 2009...it's nearly two years old.  So not only does it not discuss the 200 (which didn't exist then), but it has no information about the new Grand Cherokee and the remarkably-improved Journey, Avenger, minivans, etc.


I believe that "Just The Facts" will reveal breaking news tomorrow about GM declaring bankruptcy. ::)

Offline rrocket

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Re: First Drive: 2011 Chrysler 200
« Reply #70 on: November 17, 2010, 07:30:33 pm »
Published January 9, 2009...it's nearly two years old.  So not only does it not discuss the 200 (which didn't exist then), but it has no information about the new Grand Cherokee and the remarkably-improved Journey, Avenger, minivans, etc.


I believe that "Just The Facts" will reveal breaking news tomorrow about GM declaring bankruptcy. ::)

No...that's 2 years from now... ;D
How fast is my 911?  Supras sh*t on on me all the time...in reverse..with blown turbos  :( ...

Offline Shnak

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Re: First Drive: 2011 Chrysler 200
« Reply #71 on: November 18, 2010, 07:37:47 am »
Critics suggest reeling Chrysler is a lost cause

Source?  Link?

This thread is about the car, not the company.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28547537/ns/business-autos

Published January 9, 2009...it's nearly two years old.  So not only does it not discuss the 200 (which didn't exist then), but it has no information about the new Grand Cherokee and the remarkably-improved Journey, Avenger, minivans, etc.

Sure it did, under it's other name, the Sebring.   ;D

Just the Facts

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Re: First Drive: 2011 Chrysler 200
« Reply #72 on: November 18, 2010, 09:11:44 am »
Published January 9, 2009...it's nearly two years old.  So not only does it not discuss the 200 (which didn't exist then), but it has no information about the new Grand Cherokee and the remarkably-improved Journey, Avenger, minivans, etc.


I believe that "Just The Facts" will reveal breaking news tomorrow about GM declaring bankruptcy. ::)

Hmmm... Let's never pay attention to history, it never repeats (sarcasm).  Remarkably improved??  :shake:  Drink from my cup said "Jim Jones" (sarcasm).

Look Chrysler is no better than it was 5 years, 2 years, 6 months ago.  Sadly, it's future lies on the Fiat 500 (3 cylinder engine???)  And since you brought up GM, their make or break car is the cloth dasboard lined AVERAGE car Cruze.  Not good news for the slappies, bummer.

Offline Sir Osis of Liver

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Re: First Drive: 2011 Chrysler 200
« Reply #73 on: November 18, 2010, 09:40:18 am »

Hmmm... Let's never pay attention to history, it never repeats (sarcasm).  Remarkably improved??  :shake:  Drink from my cup said "Jim Jones" (sarcasm).

Look Chrysler is no better than it was 5 years, 2 years, 6 months ago.  Sadly, it's future lies on the Fiat 500 (3 cylinder engine???)  And since you brought up GM, their make or break car is the cloth dasboard lined AVERAGE car Cruze.  Not good news for the slappies, bummer.


The last time Chrysler got bailed out, the US government made money. Prior to the Daimler buy-out, they were in pretty good shape financially. Cerebus didn't help matters. Current Fiat management has done very well in turning their company and products around inspite of the financial chaos in Europe.

The Fiat 500 is a great little 4 cylinder car.

The reviews of the turbo Cruze have been very good.

On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.

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Offline Erik

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Re: First Drive: 2011 Chrysler 200
« Reply #74 on: November 18, 2010, 09:59:40 am »
More than good shape actually, Sir O. Before the Daimler Benz buy out, Chrysler was the most profitable car company in the world on a per vehicle basis, and was sitting in more than $30 billion in cash. What DB did to Chrysler was near enough criminal.
My dad bought two full size Chryslers in a row. The 1996 Intrepid was all around and awesome car. Still running well with somewhere around 350,000 km on it. The 2004 Concorde was notably cheaper and chintzier inside. It was just so obvious where they were taking money out if it.

Mitlov

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Re: First Drive: 2011 Chrysler 200
« Reply #75 on: November 18, 2010, 01:39:22 pm »
Hmmm... Let's never pay attention to history, it never repeats (sarcasm).  Remarkably improved??  :shake:  Drink from my cup said "Jim Jones" (sarcasm).

Look Chrysler is no better than it was 5 years, 2 years, 6 months ago.

Yes, remarkably improved.  The company-wide refreshes they've done have transformed the Avenger, Sebring/200, Journey, Grand Caravan, etc from reprehensible to respectable.  They're definitely not top of the heap, but middle of the pack certainly is a huge improvement.  As for the great leap forward, you'll have to wait a couple years while Fiat develops world cars that meet US emissions and crash requirements.  In the meantime, they've done all you can do with a model refresh, and made noticeable gains on several fronts (especially interior quality).

And you say they're no better off than they were 2 years ago, six months ago?  Chrysler sales are up 92% from a year ago.  Dodge sales are up 71%.  Jeep sales are up 65%.  After Saab, those three brands posted the three biggest sales gains for September 2010.

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/10/01/by-the-numbers-sept-2010-couldnt-wait-until-after-paris-edi/

Edit: those are US sales numbers.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2010, 01:43:55 pm by Mitlov »

Offline Shnak

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Re: First Drive: 2011 Chrysler 200
« Reply #76 on: November 18, 2010, 02:05:54 pm »
And you say they're no better off than they were 2 years ago, six months ago?  Chrysler sales are up 92% from a year ago.  Dodge sales are up 71%.  Jeep sales are up 65%.  After Saab, those three brands posted the three biggest sales gains for September 2010.

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/10/01/by-the-numbers-sept-2010-couldnt-wait-until-after-paris-edi/

Edit: those are US sales numbers.

Where the hell did they get those numbers from? In the PDF posted in the US sales thread, you see much different numbers.

              Jan-Sep 2009     Jan-Sep 2010        Increase
Chrysler        133,534            158,103               18%
Dodge           399,930            454,571              14%
Jeep             182,052            207,546              14%   

Where are they getting those 92%/71%/65% increases over last year?!

EDIT: Figured it out. They meant Month over Month, Chrysler had increased by huge margins compared to Sept '09 sales. Year-to-Year numbers certainly don't paint as positive of a picture though.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2010, 02:07:27 pm by Shnak »

Mitlov

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Re: First Drive: 2011 Chrysler 200
« Reply #77 on: November 18, 2010, 02:17:07 pm »
And you say they're no better off than they were 2 years ago, six months ago?  Chrysler sales are up 92% from a year ago.  Dodge sales are up 71%.  Jeep sales are up 65%.  After Saab, those three brands posted the three biggest sales gains for September 2010.

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/10/01/by-the-numbers-sept-2010-couldnt-wait-until-after-paris-edi/

Edit: those are US sales numbers.

Where the hell did they get those numbers from? In the PDF posted in the US sales thread, you see much different numbers.

              Jan-Sep 2009     Jan-Sep 2010        Increase
Chrysler        133,534            158,103               18%
Dodge           399,930            454,571              14%
Jeep             182,052            207,546              14%   

Where are they getting those 92%/71%/65% increases over last year?!

EDIT: Figured it out. They meant Month over Month, Chrysler had increased by huge margins compared to Sept '09 sales. Year-to-Year numbers certainly don't paint as positive of a picture though.

The improved Chrysler models only started to be released in the latter half of 2010, so the year-to-year numbers aren't going to be as good as month-to-month numbers for the last couple months.  And the all-out breakout only started in September.  We'll see what happens in October.  70% sales increases can't be sustained for long, but I am expecting more positive growth.

Just the Facts

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Re: First Drive: 2011 Chrysler 200
« Reply #78 on: November 18, 2010, 04:02:20 pm »
Fiat 500 (Fix It Again Tony): Chrysler's salvation might be a hit -- south of the border maybe

The elfin Fiat 500, scheduled to arrive in U.S. showrooms before New Year's, will surely be a hit with some. The important question is: How few?

Chrysler, which is controlled by Italy's Fiat Auto, needs a small car to compete against formidable subcompacts like Honda Fit, Ford Fiesta, Toyota Yaris, Hyundai Elantra and Chevrolet Aveo. With its smallest two-cylinder engine, the 500 gets 56 miles per gallon on the highway, an eye-opener for eco-enthusiasts.

Yet Fiat is an unfamiliar brand to most  -- probably not all bad since those old enough to remember its exit from the U.S. in 1984 associate the name with a reputation for shoddy quality.  Alas the name; Fix It Again Tony (FIAT)

Sergio Marchionne, chief executive of Chrysler and Fiat Auto, has an ace up his sleeve. By building the 500 at Chrysler's Mexico assembly plant in Toluca, he gains a labor-cost and currency advantage.  Time will tell if the domestic buyer will warm up to yet another import.

On August 30 Marchionne invited several hundred Chrysler dealers to Detroit in a bid for commitments to sell the 500, hardly a slam dunk since dealers must invest in separate showroom space, tools and parts. The deadline is Sept. 22 to submit applications, from which Chrysler could grant between 150 and 200 franchises.

"Chrysler will have to teach dealers how to sell the 500,'' said Robinet. "They're used to selling Ram pickup trucks and Jeep Grand Cherokees. They'll be dealing with a different mindset.''





Mitlov

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Re: First Drive: 2011 Chrysler 200
« Reply #79 on: November 18, 2010, 04:14:39 pm »
Fiat 500 (Fix It Again Tony): Chrysler's salvation might be a hit -- south of the border maybe

The elfin Fiat 500, scheduled to arrive in U.S. showrooms before New Year's, will surely be a hit with some. The important question is: How few?

Chrysler, which is controlled by Italy's Fiat Auto, needs a small car to compete against formidable subcompacts like Honda Fit, Ford Fiesta, Toyota Yaris, Hyundai Elantra and Chevrolet Aveo. With its smallest two-cylinder engine, the 500 gets 56 miles per gallon on the highway, an eye-opener for eco-enthusiasts.

Yet Fiat is an unfamiliar brand to most  -- probably not all bad since those old enough to remember its exit from the U.S. in 1984 associate the name with a reputation for shoddy quality.  Alas the name; Fix It Again Tony (FIAT)

Sergio Marchionne, chief executive of Chrysler and Fiat Auto, has an ace up his sleeve. By building the 500 at Chrysler's Mexico assembly plant in Toluca, he gains a labor-cost and currency advantage.  Time will tell if the domestic buyer will warm up to yet another import.

On August 30 Marchionne invited several hundred Chrysler dealers to Detroit in a bid for commitments to sell the 500, hardly a slam dunk since dealers must invest in separate showroom space, tools and parts. The deadline is Sept. 22 to submit applications, from which Chrysler could grant between 150 and 200 franchises.

"Chrysler will have to teach dealers how to sell the 500,'' said Robinet. "They're used to selling Ram pickup trucks and Jeep Grand Cherokees. They'll be dealing with a different mindset.''

Relevance to the Chrysler 200?  Could a mod move this discussion to the Fiat 500 thread in the new cars section, or something like that?

Anyway, the North American Cinquecento will get a 1.4L direct-injected ("Multi-Air," in Fiat-speak) four-cylinder engine, which should deliver excellent fuel economy.

As for Mexican manufacturing, it's worked out great for Ford.  Several of their models, including the Fusion (which has absolutely rocked Consumer Reports reliability ratings) are made in Mexico.  I've got no beef with Mexican-built cars (hell, my old Jetta was made in Puebla).